unofan
Well-known member
We do make stuff. Plenty of it, more than we ever have before.
We just use robots instead of people to do so.
Manufacturing will always be here. Manufacturing jobs will not.
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Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Populi!
- Thread starter joecct
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We do make stuff. Plenty of it, more than we ever have before.
We just use robots instead of people to do so.
Manufacturing will always be here. Manufacturing jobs will not.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Yup, when looking at components for GDP, manufacturing is larger than ever and often growing faster than GDP.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
The way I see it there's only some limited things you could do pertaining specifically to boosting working class jobs.
1) Obvious low hanging fruit is infrastructure which would boost construction industry even in places with high unemployment. Presumably there's enough work to be done to last a long time.
2) Govt could publically request major retailers stock a certain % of their goods with made in America products (excluding food). Can't do tax incentives for this as that would run afoul of existing trade agreements (could of course blow them all up) but some public pressure on the Wal-Marts and Targets of the world to give their consumers the choice of buying USA made goods might boost domestic manufacturing.
3) Lastly gubmint could declare a whole industry such as steel as being vital to national defense and subsidize the industry accordingly. National defense manufacturing isn't subject to trade deals so that might bring back a lot of jobs in certain regions as about half of steel production is now centered in China. Not sure what other industries this would affect however.
Otherwise, not sure what else can be done.
The way I see it there's only some limited things you could do pertaining specifically to boosting working class jobs.
1) Obvious low hanging fruit is infrastructure which would boost construction industry even in places with high unemployment. Presumably there's enough work to be done to last a long time.
2) Govt could publically request major retailers stock a certain % of their goods with made in America products (excluding food). Can't do tax incentives for this as that would run afoul of existing trade agreements (could of course blow them all up) but some public pressure on the Wal-Marts and Targets of the world to give their consumers the choice of buying USA made goods might boost domestic manufacturing.
3) Lastly gubmint could declare a whole industry such as steel as being vital to national defense and subsidize the industry accordingly. National defense manufacturing isn't subject to trade deals so that might bring back a lot of jobs in certain regions as about half of steel production is now centered in China. Not sure what other industries this would affect however.
Otherwise, not sure what else can be done.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
This sh-t again.
This sh-t again.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
the gobmint did a good job investing in banks and car manufacturers in 2008, maybe they need to create a "USDB" to loan and invest in these important national industries?
Though gov interference in airlines in Europe for example has always been a hang up with Boeing getting po'ed with Airbus.
What if though you can't deduct any salary from your taxes as a business expense of it exceeds 2.5x the median salary?
Or deferred comp was immediately taxable for the recipient?
Algore had all sorts of tax credits crap in mind to influence behavior.
Same can be used to deter overcomp.
Still think there some be some way to influence 2nd 3rd 4th home buying via taxes. National multi-home property tax?? "National homeland security and protection property tax"??
Make John Forbes Kerry pay for all the needed programs our country needs.
the gobmint did a good job investing in banks and car manufacturers in 2008, maybe they need to create a "USDB" to loan and invest in these important national industries?
Though gov interference in airlines in Europe for example has always been a hang up with Boeing getting po'ed with Airbus.
What if though you can't deduct any salary from your taxes as a business expense of it exceeds 2.5x the median salary?
Or deferred comp was immediately taxable for the recipient?
Algore had all sorts of tax credits crap in mind to influence behavior.
Same can be used to deter overcomp.
Still think there some be some way to influence 2nd 3rd 4th home buying via taxes. National multi-home property tax?? "National homeland security and protection property tax"??
Make John Forbes Kerry pay for all the needed programs our country needs.
aparch
Acetaminamerican
Amen!
Wait, would that be admitting that the minimum wage is too low?
I do agree that there are industries that would implode overnight if that happened, but honestly, it's a severe issue that needs to be straightened out.
Hell, in the construction industry, one of the big fraud areas are Illegals with forged drivers licenses and stolen/duplicated union cards.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
Sure Bernie has identified some key points, but he's wrong on others. And some sentiments here are as well.
Unlike what he says, the global economy does work for most. GDP per capita in the US has increased about 8% since 2009 and is now at all time highs. This is a two speed economy, but that's due to globalization and we just need to adapt rather than force ourselves to be something were not. The US has competitive advantages in the areas of services, content and technology. The only way revving up manufacturing capabability works is by massive subsidies. You signing up for that? That would help some people, while cutting into domestic spending by dumping a good part of everyone elses paycheck into keeping plants open.
Brexit is an example of Bernieland. Due to Bernie style protectionism, Vodaphone, the second leading phone service provider in Britain, is considering leaving London (and they wouldn't be alone). But at least it would protect some brass handle manufacturers.
Sure Bernie has identified some key points, but he's wrong on others. And some sentiments here are as well.
Unlike what he says, the global economy does work for most. GDP per capita in the US has increased about 8% since 2009 and is now at all time highs. This is a two speed economy, but that's due to globalization and we just need to adapt rather than force ourselves to be something were not. The US has competitive advantages in the areas of services, content and technology. The only way revving up manufacturing capabability works is by massive subsidies. You signing up for that? That would help some people, while cutting into domestic spending by dumping a good part of everyone elses paycheck into keeping plants open.
Brexit is an example of Bernieland. Due to Bernie style protectionism, Vodaphone, the second leading phone service provider in Britain, is considering leaving London (and they wouldn't be alone). But at least it would protect some brass handle manufacturers.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
There are people who have to run those robots- so instead of having 3 robots and 100 workers, you have 100 robots and 3 workers.
Other than that, what suggestion do you have to create middle class jobs that actually adds to society?
We don't make computers anymore- some of the components, but not the actual computers. We don't make smart phones. See computers. TV's, many home appliances, etc. A lot of those are still labor intensive (which is why they were shipped overseas in the first place).
We may make a lot of stuff, but that's no reason why we can't make more.
There are people who have to run those robots- so instead of having 3 robots and 100 workers, you have 100 robots and 3 workers.
Other than that, what suggestion do you have to create middle class jobs that actually adds to society?
We don't make computers anymore- some of the components, but not the actual computers. We don't make smart phones. See computers. TV's, many home appliances, etc. A lot of those are still labor intensive (which is why they were shipped overseas in the first place).
We may make a lot of stuff, but that's no reason why we can't make more.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
How does Dick Morris keep getting jobs?
How does Dick Morris keep getting jobs?
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
There is no silver bullet here. We are not a imperial power enforcing trade terms on third world countries as we did during the 50s.
So the best we can do is to retrain and subsidize as necessary for innovation. Innovation in services, technology, content, and search the global economy for business opportunities - our own and joint ventures. We need to attack with our strengths...and then gear more of our economy over to those strengths. Once that occurs (and it will not fix the problem only improve it) we will be richer for it. And then domestic spending will increase...it always does. This model has worked many times before in the US...compete, not retreat.
There is no silver bullet here. We are not a imperial power enforcing trade terms on third world countries as we did during the 50s.
So the best we can do is to retrain and subsidize as necessary for innovation. Innovation in services, technology, content, and search the global economy for business opportunities - our own and joint ventures. We need to attack with our strengths...and then gear more of our economy over to those strengths. Once that occurs (and it will not fix the problem only improve it) we will be richer for it. And then domestic spending will increase...it always does. This model has worked many times before in the US...compete, not retreat.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
Space mining, dammit.
Space mining, dammit.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
Some surprisingly good ideas here.
Some surprisingly good ideas here.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
He crafted the message that won a presidential election in 1992.
He crafted the message that won a presidential election in 1992.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
He's been so wrong so often since then. I suspect he and Rove made their bones off others' work because since being elevated to pundits they've produced nothing but garbage.
He's been so wrong so often since then. I suspect he and Rove made their bones off others' work because since being elevated to pundits they've produced nothing but garbage.
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
While the sentiment is good, that's a bit risky. Other countries could adopt the same approach with US property protections in their countries. And we have more to lose...our property protections are worth perhaps as much as all other countries' properties combined.
While the sentiment is good, that's a bit risky. Other countries could adopt the same approach with US property protections in their countries. And we have more to lose...our property protections are worth perhaps as much as all other countries' properties combined.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Some surprisingly good ideas here.
Mookie should be king.
unofan
Well-known member
And eventually there will be one guy who builds the robot that services other robots who build more robots to build more things.
Even using your numbers, that's 97 percent fewer jobs than there used to be, and they aren't coming back.
There is no magic solution, especially for unskilled labor. Either the government incentivizes less efficient work sites by taxing robots or subsidizing employees, increases the minimum wage, increases benefits to the unemployable, taxes the wealthy, or some combination of all of the above.
Personally, I'd start by raising the minimum wage to the $10.50 or so it'd be at if it had merely kept up with inflation since the 60s. That would help the service sector employees make a living.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
Un huh...what happened 20 years later when he tried to craft a message about an election?
BTW Nate Silver has given Clinton a 79% chance of winning...but then what does he know right
Un huh...what happened 20 years later when he tried to craft a message about an election?
BTW Nate Silver has given Clinton a 79% chance of winning...but then what does he know right
Re: Campaign 2016 Part XIII: Clinton destrueretur est. Trump est destruetur. Vox Pop
Death by 1,000 cuts
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...78b0bc-3d3c-11e6-a66f-aa6c1883b6b1_story.html
Death by 1,000 cuts
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...78b0bc-3d3c-11e6-a66f-aa6c1883b6b1_story.html
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