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Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

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Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

ScoobyDoo said:
And it's always more more more. A good return is never enough.
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Exactly. The staid, solid company cruising along, paying out a 35 cent/share dividend quarter after quarter, year after year, in perpetuity is a bad investment. It needs to be 35 cents this quarter, and 40 next, and 50 the quarter after that.

Couple that with the CEO's desire to make his huge yearly bonus, and he has no incentive to run his company for the long haul. If he needs to hit a number to get that bonus, he's gonna do it, no matter what the effect long-term on the company will be. If he has to lay off his highest earning and most competent people to cut costs, he'll do it. If he has to sell of his most profitable division to boost the earnings of those left, he'll do it. If he has to use all the company's cash reserves to buy back stock and artificially inflate its price, he'll do it. If he has to shut it down and move all those jobs overseas, he'll do it. Cause his seven figure bonus depends on it.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

rufus said:
And the reason is..............

We've gone from a country and a people that used to think long term, and are now seeking immediate gratification. Those "investors", rather than investing in a company that will be there for decades or even centuries, and provide them with a nice reasonable rate of return over that time, now think only in terms of the next quarter. Their cut of the next quarter's profits need to be more than this quarter, and the quarter after that better be even better. And they don't care what the company has to do to make it happen. Increase growth, cut costs, lay off half the work force, sell off a division or some intellectual property, buy back stock, whatever has to be done to boost that all-important share-price.
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It's funny to read this description of my employer as we're one of the more liberal companies out there, and the company's largest shareholder is highly regarded in Democratic circles, a big contributor even.

That said, with exception to the layoffs, you're not far off in description.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Ew ew ew ew ew. Ew.

Larry Flynt, whose Hustler studio in 2008 brought the world the political pornographic satire "Who's Nailin' Paylin," announced Monday that Donald Drumpf will be the subject of his latest porn parody video, titled simply "The Donald."
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Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Funny. Maybe even to Rover.

The Comments are good, too.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Kepler said:
I've gone out of my way to point out where I disagree with Bernie, and that Bernie himself means nothing -- the ideas are all. You, OTOH, dependably regurgitate the same talking points that DWS and John Podesta feed to CNN daily, and shuck and jive when anyone asks you where you think The Once and Future Queen falls short of Metaphysical Perfection.
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Kep your main complaint about Bernie IIRC was that he doesn't comb his hair enough. Hardly a stinging indictment of the man. However, there's something you fail to acknowledge which is people are voting against Bernie because his plans are absurd. In theory Hillary Clinton should be ripe for a successful challenge on the left for several reasons, not the least of which that she's been a public figure for 30 years and the country has moved left over that time. Your other points are laughable. Only friends and family watch CNN so I couldn't be getting info from there, and I have no idea what's being said on Red State like apparently you do.

Sanders prescriptions for a cure are worst than the disease. That's his main problem. The sooner you figure that out and correct it, the better you'll be to enact an actual overhaul of the "system". Pie in the sky BS ain't going to do it, and all those kids flocking to his rallies are going to balk when they graduate and get jobs and then realize he wants to whack an extra 10% or so out of their take home pay for a single payer system that few people actually want.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Kepler said:
Funny. Maybe even to Rover.

The Comments are good, too.
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Amusing as was the SNL skit about her trying to get on the subway. Hillary isn't a religion for me like Bernie is for Bernouts. Good natured ribbing is always welcome. ;)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Rover said:
Kep your main complaint about Bernie IIRC was that he doesn't comb his hair enough. Hardly a stinging indictment of the man. However, there's something you fail to acknowledge which is people are voting against Bernie because his plans are absurd. In theory Hillary Clinton should be ripe for a successful challenge on the left for several reasons, not the least of which that she's been a public figure for 30 years and the country has moved left over that time. Your other points are laughable. Only friends and family watch CNN so I couldn't be getting info from there, and I have no idea what's being said on Red State like apparently you do.

Sanders prescriptions for a cure are worst than the disease. That's his main problem. The sooner you figure that out and correct it, the better you'll be to enact an actual overhaul of the "system". Pie in the sky BS ain't going to do it, and all those kids flocking to his rallies are going to balk when they graduate and get jobs and then realize he wants to whack an extra 10% or so out of their take home pay for a single payer system that few people actually want.
Click to expand...

Here are my complaints re: Bernie

1. He ignores foreign policy completely. He needs to signal whether he will continue Obama's policies or in what ways he will diverge from them. The economy has improved enough that this election will be at least 50% about handling terrorism and Putin and how to approach China. He needs clear policies. These are not contradictory with his strong domestic stances.

2. My criticisms re: his tuition I've stated already. I think he needs to show how they dovetail with loan forgiveness in general. We saved Wall Street; now Wall Street can start paying its share.

3. He should avoid the time honored trap of raising taxes $1 on the middle class and $1M on the rich, because the Usual Suspects then blast from every amp "he's raising your taxes!!!111!"

4. One thing people are annoyed/frightened by is how complex the tax system has become. The flat tax people exploit this to great advantage. Bernie can too by proposing to eliminate the distinctions between income tax, capital gains, AMT, social security and Medicare, and combine everything into a single progressive income tax structure that goes not to any dedicated expenditure but to the general fund. This is also a way to stop tax avoidance shenanigans.

Those are my substantive criticisms. Most liberals would add clarification on gun laws but I don't have a problem with where he already stands on them, and I've always considered Democratic obsession with gun control as a clear electoral loser that drives white working class voters who are our allies on fiscal issues away.

There is nothing "pie in the sky," in principle, about Bernie's more liberal approach to equal opportunity. The thing he should drive home in his stump speech and policies is that our current structure is run for the benefit of a tiny elite at tremendous cost to the rest of the population. A representative republic need not fall prey to that sort of plutocracy -- our government gives us legal means to change the rules so that everyone has a fair shot. That's not naive or Utopian, it's the very essence of the American Dream.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Rover said:
Amusing as was the SNL skit about her trying to get on the subway. Hillary isn't a religion for me like Bernie is for Bernouts.
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This says so much more about you than what you intend. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Kepler said:
This says so much more about you than what you intend. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Hey at least I didn't make any Nazi references about him like YOU did about the Clintons....

Regarding Sanders, the issue I have with him is that he's gone a-hole the last month or so. Really ever since he got smoked on that 2nd Super Tuesday. If he wants to keep pushing his issues, god bless 'em. But, when you start saying (which he has) that anybody who sets up a SuperPac or who took money from Wall St is unqualified to be President, he just disqualified not Hillary Clinton but Barack Obama from the Presidency. Does Sanders think he'd be a better President than Obama? I don't fukin think so. That's a lot of arrogance out of a guy who's done very little despite 25 years in Congress. With those comments however he's basically playing right into the hands of the GOP. Its also telling he's doing nothing for Dems down ballot. Fine if he doesn't want to raise money for the DNC. However he could use his fundraising network to donate directly to fellow progressives (he should be funding Russ Feingold for example).

Bernie is all about Bernie. That's becoming abundantly clear and it makes no sense as the best way to bring about change is getting a slew of progressives elected. Its not beneath Hillary to do party building in the middle of her campaign. Why is that beneath Sanders?
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Kepler said:
Here are my complaints re: Bernie

1. He ignores foreign policy completely. He needs to signal whether he will continue Obama's policies or in what ways he will diverge from them. The economy has improved enough that this election will be at least 50% about handling terrorism and Putin and how to approach China. He needs clear policies. These are not contradictory with his strong domestic stances.

2. My criticisms re: his tuition I've stated already. I think he needs to show how they dovetail with loan forgiveness in general. We saved Wall Street; now Wall Street can start paying its share.

3. He should avoid the time honored trap of raising taxes $1 on the middle class and $1M on the rich, because the Usual Suspects then blast from every amp "he's raising your taxes!!!111!"

4. One thing people are annoyed/frightened by is how complex the tax system has become. The flat tax people exploit this to great advantage. Bernie can too by proposing to eliminate the distinctions between income tax, capital gains, AMT, social security and Medicare, and combine everything into a single progressive income tax structure that goes not to any dedicated expenditure but to the general fund. This is also a way to stop tax avoidance shenanigans.

Those are my substantive criticisms. Most liberals would add clarification on gun laws but I don't have a problem with where he already stands on them, and I've always considered Democratic obsession with gun control as a clear electoral loser that drives white working class voters who are our allies on fiscal issues away.

There is nothing "pie in the sky," in principle, about Bernie's more liberal approach to equal opportunity. The thing he should drive home in his stump speech and policies is that our current structure is run for the benefit of a tiny elite at tremendous cost to the rest of the population. A representative republic need not fall prey to that sort of plutocracy -- our government gives us legal means to change the rules so that everyone has a fair shot. That's not naive or Utopian, it's the very essence of the American Dream.
Click to expand...

Why do you engage...you know he doesnt actually read anything posted. It has been proven many times ;)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Handyman said:
Why do you engage...you know he doesnt actually read anything posted. It has been proven many times ;)
Click to expand...


Hey, I'm giving Kep credit for this post! Its the first one that didn't have the BERNIE IS THE MESSIAH!!! vibe to it in like 3 months. :D So lets support the man when we can. Its sorta like how I think most of your posts are nonsense, but your Scooby-Scott Walker stuff is dead on accurate. ;)
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Rover said:
Hey, I'm giving Kep credit for this post! Its the first one that didn't have the BERNIE IS THE MESSIAH!!! vibe to it in like 3 months.
Click to expand...

You're so wrong. Go back and read my posts if you need to. You have an idee fixe of a stereotype of Bernie backers and it's utterly false, and even when you have evidence directly in front of your nose you seem to literally not see it.

I talk to Bernie people all the time, and because of where I am in life they are all older professional parents, stable, sensible, and practical. They are garden variety Democrats who are OK with Obama but looking for a push back towards the center after having lived in a right wing America for the last 30 years.

They will all vote for Hillary this fall if she is the nominee. They all have similar experiences with their interactions with Clintonistas. Hillary supporters never engage on a serious, substantive level, they just throw out (typically irrelevant) cheap shots and dull thud attempts at jokes that don't even make sense. They are very similar to the occasional forays of the right to make Daily Show attempts, which just fall flat and mean spirited, without even a spark of cleverness to redeem it.

Hillary and her people are turning into a caricature of the old, humorless scold. That doesn't make the nut in November.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Kep I think you might need a vacation or something because the world you describe doesn't look like reality. Previously people could make a good case that Sanders was helping the Dems with his emphasis on inequality and social justice. Back in the day I posted to that effect. The problem is Sanders, like his supports and dare I say like yourself, have become really bitter lately. I never saw you throw out Nazi references to political opponents, even GWB, until this week with the Clintons for example.

Sanders is free to make the case about corporate influence in politics. Unfortunately he's gone Joe McCarthy on us in that everybody who ever got a donation from a corporation is implied to be a sell out. Now its not just banks. Its energy companies and GE and all that. Look, the goal here isn't to make more enemies and run a purity test with guilt by association for everybody else. Bernie Sanders campaign has taken a dark turn. He's resorting to personal attacks and pure idiocy. He's no longer helping the Dems or his pet causes. He's now hurting them for the sake of his ego.

Lastly implying that Hillary fans are too tough on Sanders is absurd. Maybe purely for the sake of party unity and not because of some altruistic motives Hillary people have been holding their fire. However, if Bernie wants to get down and dirty, the old man ain't seen nothin' yet.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

what the hell is hilly doin' making funny of colored folk with the mayor?!?!?!??! :eek:
 
Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Kepler said:
You're so wrong. Go back and read my posts if you need to. You have an idee fixe of a stereotype of Bernie backers and it's utterly false, and even when you have evidence directly in front of your nose you seem to literally not see it.

I talk to Bernie people all the time, and because of where I am in life they are all older professional parents, stable, sensible, and practical. They are garden variety Democrats who are OK with Obama but looking for a push back towards the center after having lived in a right wing America for the last 30 years.

They will all vote for Hillary this fall if she is the nominee. They all have similar experiences with their interactions with Clintonistas. Hillary supporters never engage on a serious, substantive level, they just throw out (typically irrelevant) cheap shots and dull thud attempts at jokes that don't even make sense. They are very similar to the occasional forays of the right to make Daily Show attempts, which just fall flat and mean spirited, without even a spark of cleverness to redeem it.

Hillary and her people are turning into a caricature of the old, humorless scold. That doesn't make the nut in November.
Click to expand...

My dad is a Bernie supporter. He's probably the most pragmatic person on earth. He'd vote HRC if it came to it though.
 
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