Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

And you still don't get it. Quit doing the scoreboard pointing and actually listen. Large majorities in 3 different states, two of which are Democratic bellwethers, just flat out rejected Hillary and all you can say is "that's life, get used to it"? Did you miss all the talk of "arrogant" or "elitist"? How do you plan on winning in November if places like this can't stand her?

Listen, the DNC's ramrodding of Hillary in this primary is doing more than just ruffling feathers. People have as much dislike at the Democratic leadership as they do at Republicans. It isn't positions or anything like that, it's about treatment. And Hillary and the DNC have been treating Bernie supporters like garbage, your posts on this a prime example. Telling people to get in line and shut up won't work. You better start listening and try to make friends or don't surprised if you're left hanging.

Umm.....you do realize this nomination is decided by winning a majority of the delegates, right? I'm sorry if that offends you, but really a temper tantrum if your guy doesn't win isn't going to change reality. IF Sanders truly commands a new progressive majority, one would expect him to be able to win the Democratic nomination by way of winning more votes than his competition. If he can't do that then tough sh it, kid. That's the breaks. And if he DOES end up winning more votes, then same rules apply to Hillary.

See, the world doesn't revolve around you, or Sanders. The sooner you learn that, the better off you're going to be.

BTW - The notion that the DNC and Debbie Wasserman Schultz are responsible for Sanders being down 2.5M votes to Hillary is laughable. DWS couldn't organize a one car funeral, yet she's come up with some dastardly plan to screw Bernie out of the nomination. Ooookayyyy. In the meantime, you can either vote for the Dem candidate in the general, be that Hillary or Bernie, or say Hi to President Trump. Again, that's reality, not fantasyland. Spend some time in it with the rest of us, 'kay? You might like it!

 

[leswp1]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Regardless of numbers you need fire in the states that she is missing it. Winning states with the most delegates doesn't mean squat if she can't win those states she is losing now in the general election. I think he has a point regardless of who eventually wins.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Regardless of numbers you need fire in the states that she is missing it. Winning states with the most delegates doesn't mean squat if she can't win those states she is losing now in the general election. I think he has a point regardless of who eventually wins.

Trump is supposedly hated as much as Hillary. That's what Rover is counting on. It looks like it will be a base election. Whoever gets the base out wins. Which is different than Obama where it was an independent election. At least that's my take.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Umm.....you do realize this nomination is decided by winning a majority of the delegates, right?

I thought it was decided by how many superdelegates you purchase?

 

[burd]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I know it's nothing new, but we're hitting relatively new lows for our time. It used to be that these attacks were aimed directly at candidates, or how candidates handled these scurrilous events in their families' pasts. Now it's just the fact that it happened, the more salacious the better.

Knowingly or not, Drumpf has beaten R. Ailes at his own orchestra theory: ("If you have two guys on a stage and one guy says, 'I have a solution to the Middle East problem,' and the other guy falls in the orchestra pit, who do you think is going to be on the evening news?") Drumpf is not falling into the orchestra pit, he is tossing others in, Fox News among them, but not because he refuses to abide by the old political establishment rules. He does it because he is a carnival barker selling cap snafflers and bottle openers and promising peaks at the bearded lady, and he knows no other way.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Regardless of numbers you need fire in the states that she is missing it. Winning states with the most delegates doesn't mean squat if she can't win those states she is losing now in the general election. I think he has a point regardless of who eventually wins.

les kindly point out to me what states she's losing to Trump or Cruz? Not trying to be a jerk here, but curious as to your perception.

The person with the "fire" is the person who's winning. Hillary has won the primaries VA, NC, FL, OH, IL, MO, AZ. These are the swing states where the Dems either win or can put a little extra pressure on. A candidate who generates little excitement amongst the minority base will get smoked in many of these places. The Bernie argument works both ways...

Trump is supposedly hated as much as Hillary. That's what Rover is counting on. It looks like it will be a base election. Whoever gets the base out wins. Which is different than Obama where it was an independent election. At least that's my take.

Trump is hated a lot more than Hillary. Most elections are base elections with the exception you noted of Obama. I think too many people are still filling in generic Republican as the nominee. The GOP nominee is either Donald Trump or Ted Cruz. No one else.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Miami Herald has an interesting piece on brokered conventions in the past.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article68111532.html

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Miami Herald has an interesting piece on brokered conventions in the past.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article68111532.html

But Reagan, attempting to shake loose some delegates in the big Pennsylvania delegation, named the state’s liberal U.S. Senator Richard Schweiker as his running mate, despite the fact they were about as ideologically compatible as Joseph Stalin and Mother Teresa. It didn’t work; Pennsylvania was solidly under control of a Ford boss.

What the hell, Reagan?

Much luckier was another unwilling nominee at a brokered convention, Horatio Seymour, a surprise choice of the Democrats in 1868 after three days and 18 ballots. “He was dragged from the convention hall screaming, ‘Please don’t do this to me!”’ says historian Simpson.

We the People, couldn't possibly be so lucky this year.

 

[aparch]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I just read about some PAC that's unaffiliated with Cruz sending out an attack ad using a nude pic of Melania Trump from 16 years ago, during her modeling days. That started a Twitter slapfest between Drumpf and Cruz as Drumpf threatened to go after Cruz's wife next.

Soap Opera Digest has more believable stories in it than the political news services do these day.

I... kinda believe it. During the Illinois primary, there were radio ads for the top five (Hillary, Bernie, and the three ring Republican circus). There was ALSO a radio ad in heavy rotation for a Republican PAC completely slamming Trump. Their ending bit to the clip stated they were an 'Unaffiliated Republican Super PAC Against Trump' (or something similar).


I have to say I'm impressed by the dumpster fire that is the Republican Party. They can't even get their sh*t together when they're being hijacked.

 

[joecct]

I have to say I'm impressed by the dumpster fire that is the Republican Party. They can't even get their sh*t together when they're being hijacked.

Please don't do this to me!!!

 

[leswp1]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

les kindly point out to me what states she's losing to Trump or Cruz? Not trying to be a jerk here, but curious as to your perception.

The person with the "fire" is the person who's winning. Hillary has won the primaries VA, NC, FL, OH, IL, MO, AZ. These are the swing states where the Dems either win or can put a little extra pressure on. A candidate who generates little excitement amongst the minority base will get smoked in many of these places. The Bernie argument works both ways...



Trump is hated a lot more than Hillary. Most elections are base elections with the exception you noted of Obama. I think too many people are still filling in generic Republican as the nominee. The GOP nominee is either Donald Trump or Ted Cruz. No one else.

I have no idea what the outcome will be. Polls are not always perfect. Michigan is a great example of polls being way off.

Hillary may well win but the person recently winning the primaries is not only Hillary (or at least the last several days). You can have a ton of delegates from the various states but when it comes to Electoral vote those states don't count more than once. If the Bernie vote stays home in the states he won and the tD crazies remain crazy.... who knows what will happen.

People may hate tD but that doesn't necessarily translate into them loving or voting for Hillary.

Again, I don't know what the outcome will be. I don't even pretend I have what I think is an educated guess. I just think the logic you use is, well, not always logical.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Why won't Hillary debate in New York?

 

[MaizeRage]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

And Hillary and the DNC have been treating Bernie supporters like garbage, your posts on this a prime example.

Oh Heavens to Betsy! You realize they're competing for the same job, right? If Bernie and his "movement" are totes sademoji about Hillary's microaggressions, what do you think is going to happen at the national level when you're not just dealing with people that think Bernie's ideas are nice but unrealistic and instead think they would literally be the death of America?

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Let's settle this at 24 paces!

http://www.lifezette.com/popzette/maybe-trump-cruz-should-just-duel-it-out/

 

[unofan]

I have no idea what the outcome will be. Polls are not always perfect. Michigan is a great example of polls being way off.

Hillary may well win but the person recently winning the primaries is not only Hillary (or at least the last several days). You can have a ton of delegates from the various states but when it comes to Electoral vote those states don't count more than once. If the Bernie vote stays home in the states he won and the tD crazies remain crazy.... who knows what will happen.

People may hate tD but that doesn't necessarily translate into them loving or voting for Hillary.

Again, I don't know what the outcome will be. I don't even pretend I have what I think is an educated guess. I just think the logic you use is, well, not always logical.

Bernie has been winning caucuses for the most part. Hillary does better in actual primaries. Which means she's actually in the better position to do well in the general to the extent primaries have higher turnouts of average voters rather than party insiders or those with multiple hours to kill.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Bernie has been winning caucuses for the most part. Hillary does better in actual primaries. Which means she's actually in the better position to do well in the general to the extent primaries have higher turnouts of average voters rather than party insiders or those with multiple hours to kill.

Not disagreeing but I have a problem with the coronation mentality. He is winning places. Some of the places he might have won, the mechanics have not been in his favor. (less 'open' states) Not arguing this on his politics/beliefs. I don't see how whole states or groups of people are so easily discounted.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Not disagreeing but I have a problem with the coronation mentality. He is winning places. Some of the places he might have won, the mechanics have not been in his favor. (less 'open' states) Not arguing this on his politics/beliefs. I don't see how whole states or groups of people are so easily discounted.

But who is discounting him? The Dems have had multiple debates and town halls. He's raising money no problem. The primary rules that are in place have been there since 1988 so there's no surprises. Nobody is threatening Bernie supporters if they back him.

Could it be, maybe, just maybe, Dems prefer Hillary over Bernie? Shocking I know, but all we can go by is the actual votes.

So its the entitlement of Sanders supporters that I have an issue with. If Sanders won more delegates, he'd make the rules. Problem is Bernouts want a situation where if Bernie wins he makes the rules, and if Bernie loses.....he makes the rules! That ain't how it works. Reminds me of the people who think the GOP should screw Trump and Cruz out of the nomination to give it to Kasich who's won about 1% of the vote. If Republican voters wanted him as their nominee, they would have voted for him.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

But who is discounting him? The Dems have had multiple debates and town halls. He's raising money no problem. The primary rules that are in place have been there since 1988 so there's no surprises. Nobody is threatening Bernie supporters if they back him.

Could it be, maybe, just maybe, Dems prefer Hillary over Bernie? Shocking I know, but all we can go by is the actual votes.

So its the entitlement of Sanders supporters that I have an issue with. If Sanders won more delegates, he'd make the rules. Problem is Bernouts want a situation where if Bernie wins he makes the rules, and if Bernie loses.....he makes the rules! That ain't how it works. Reminds me of the people who think the GOP should screw Trump and Cruz out of the nomination to give it to Kasich who's won about 1% of the vote. If Republican voters wanted him as their nominee, they would have voted for him.

No one has won yet. Until the race is done no one will win. Actual votes mean jack squat. They don't go by popular vote but by delegates. Haven't been exposed to anyone who is exhibiting entitlement. Haven't seen anyone saying Bernie will make the rules (maybe I am sheltered, or at least not steeped in the social media of it all). Have seen people saying they haven't lost yet and there still is a race. I don't have a problem with that or with people hoping to sway what Hillary/ the party eventually runs on. That is how things work.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

http://www.xojane.com/issues/stephanie-cegielski-donald-trump-campaign-defector

Anyone see this yet. Checked Snopes- they don't have anything.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

No one has won yet. Until the race is done no one will win. Haven't seen entitlement. Have seen people saying they haven't lost yet. I don't have a problem with that.

Correct. However, one person is leading and one person is behind significantly. As I've said before, if Sanders truly commanded a new progressive army that would overwhelm the system count me in! If he's just saying that and doesn't have the troops he claims he does, no way do I want him facing off against Trump. As George McGovern found out the hard way, having boisterous student support doesn't necessarily translate into victory.

If he wins the delegate count (and he has every right to stay in the race until Hil gets the majority of pledged delegates) he has my support in the GE. If he doesn't he needs to be a good soldier and support the nominee. As do his supporters. In the meantime I will humiliate anybody who tries to say Sanders is somehow getting screwed. This has been a fair race and he's been given every opportunity to state his case. Its not the DNC or Hillary's fault his campaign decided to not compete in places like Florida, Texas, North Carolina, or Virginia - 3 of which were won by Obama.