Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

[Jimjamesak]

Drumpf is interesting because of what happens with the hardcore racists and misogynists who previously got dog whistles from the GOP. Now the GOP is hurling brickbats at them to try to de-legitimatize Drumpf.

This is easy behavior for Republican establishment figures who are after all well-educated, wealthy elites, who if they're personally racist at all are racist as a proxy for despising the poor. The Republican party's institutionalized racism has always just been electioneering opportunism. Like their homophobia or their religiosity, it's only a put-on to get the rubes' votes. At home they're exactly as tolerant and secular as Democratic apparatchiks -- after all, they all came off the same conveyor belt; the GOPers are just working the "traditionalist" side of the midway but at quittin' time they go back to the same neighborhoods and the same spouses and the same bubble.

So what happens after Drumpf? No doubt most of these guys will reverse field and starting mouthing the same old platitudes that always packed the pews before, but while the Drumpites may not be the sharpest when it comes to geopolitics they're pretty good at detecting condescension. Do they just go right back in the kennel, or do they tell the GOP to shove it once and for all?

The only sense I've gotten from any Republicans out here is a sense of "the country is doomed and being run by idiots."

On the Democratic side of things there's a bit of a simmering "they're not really listening to us" resentment on the West Coast. And it's especially apparent among not millennials but more the late Gen X, early Gen Y 27-40 year old crowd.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Lets be honest. Hillary is boring. She's selling competence, which she has in abundance.

LOL Let's not forget her only other weaknesses, that her brilliant intelligence makes humans feel small, and her dazzling good looks make all the mortal women jealous of her perfection. Other than those, she's a great candidate.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

On the Democratic side of things there's a bit of a simmering "they're not really listening to us" resentment on the West Coast. And it's especially apparent among not millennials but more the late Gen X, early Gen Y 27-40 year old crowd.

It's not just the west coast. Right now it's more limited to white liberals of all ages and young voters of all perspectives and races. That's about 45% of the Democratic party. Bernie's critical weakness is obviously his minority outreach -- if he was reaching non-white liberals with the same strength as white liberals, he would be the nominee.

What that tells me is future Democratic nominations will be won by bona fide liberals with minority, especially Hispanic, outreach, and that just like Bill Clinton's success created a cottage industry of blue dogs, we should now see a crop of liberals. As liberals ride changing demographics to victories this will retrain the Democratic party to move resources leftwards to capture more seats, creating a virtuous cycle. The Wall Street Captivity of the Democratic party is gradually giving way, and Hillary will probably be the last jailer.

(This also means that while Booker is a good Veep candidate, he was probably born too late to be president in his own right unless the old bat Hardings.)

 

[leswp1]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Email isn't dead. I know we have plenty of Ostrich's in the house but please.....................

I probably wasn't paying the slightest attention when I was younger but it seems we have an odd ability to judge behavior on new norms like never before. Any journalist worth their salt (of which we seem to have none left with any audience) would be listing all sorts of comparisons for most of the stuff both sides are losing their mind about now. Infidelity has been rampant (arr-arr) for generations but suddenly brand new. Emails issues have been around since they started being used- how many used private servers and emails before this, how many emails disappeared, etc.? Each party seems to have a monopoly on candidates being owned by someone. (tD has probably handed over more grift than any candidate in history. I guess it doesn't count if you were on the giving part of the persuasion.) Doh- they have always been owned since the start of the country, why is this new?? Same for people having lily white ethics. How many previous Presidents were not sly manipulators (Carter aside, and everyone seems to hate him as a prez). Other than Hillary being assaulted in the media for having an opinion when she was a First Lady I can't remember people attacking the wives in the campaign or even in the White House for things like looks in such a serious way. Sheesh.

Looking at it objectively- I want to vote Mickey Mouse- Brilliant spin doctors have made being a public servant, having experience or education liabilities. You wouldn't want an inexperienced or under-educated, academically mediocre person doing surgery on you or trying to fix your high tech system. For some reason we want to have untried people or people who haven't been particularly good at the outside world do stuff on a global level. Fascinating to me that the same people who howled protest at President Obama being too inexperienced now want to elect someone who has never even been in a place where you could judge what he might do. I guess no reasonable person who has brains wants to run for obvious reasons.

 

[Jimjamesak]

It's not just the west coast. Right now it's more limited to white liberals of all ages and young voters of all perspectives and races. That's about 45% of the Democratic party. Bernie's critical weakness is obviously his minority outreach -- if he was reaching non-white liberals with the same strength as white liberals, he would be the nominee.

What that tells me is future Democratic nominations will be won by bona fide liberals with minority, especially Hispanic, outreach, and that just like Bill Clinton's success created a cottage industry of blue dogs, we should now see a crop of liberals. As liberals ride changing demographics to victories this will retrain the Democratic party to move resources leftwards to capture more seats, creating a virtuous cycle. The Wall Street Captivity of the Democratic party is gradually giving way, and Hillary will probably be the last jailer.

(This also means that while Booker is a good Veep candidate, he was probably born too late to be president in his own right unless the old bat Hardings.)

The problem with that thinking is that, especially in the West, a lot of the young liberals feel disenfranchised by the system, the Democratic Party system. So young, western liberals are more inclined to either leave the party or take a sledgehammer to the system, two things which those in power do not want. Whereas on the East Coast young liberals will write on their blog and complain, West Coast liberals are rolling up their sleeves and balling their fists to actually change things. There's a growing sense of "this is what we're doing, this is what we've done, you're not helping, you're not listening, * you" and I don't think some on the Democratic side see it and it's starting to drive a wedge.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

The problem with that thinking is that, especially in the West, a lot of the young liberals feel disenfranchised by the system, the Democratic Party system. So young, western liberals are more inclined to either leave the party or take a sledgehammer to the system, two things which those in power do not want. Whereas on the East Coast young liberals will write on their blog and complain, West Coast liberals are rolling up their sleeves and balling their fists to actually change things. There's a growing sense of "this is what we're doing, this is what we've done, you're not helping, you're not listening, * you" and I don't think some on the Democratic side see it and it's starting to drive a wedge.

WHat are they going to roll up their sleeves and do? this is the thing that confuses me. The system is built not to clean house in one cycle. They can't fire everyone. Power still is needed to accomplish things. The alternative is being played out in the House which has been completely ineffectual.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Whereas on the East Coast young liberals will write on their blog and complain, West Coast liberals are rolling up their sleeves and balling their fists to actually change things.

To put it another way, while west coast liberals will form their plenary councils and complain, east coast liberals will graduate from the Ivies, go to DC, and change things from the inside.

(Just thought I'd trade snark for snark. In reality there is zero regional difference whatever; take it from someone who has spent a lot of time on both coasts. The conveyor belt is exactly the same, from Portland to Austin to Madison to Alexandria.)

 

[unofan]

Whereas on the East Coast young liberals will write on their blog and complain, West Coast liberals are rolling up their sleeves and balling their fists to actually change things.

I'm not sure I've seen as clear an example of western frontier smugness against easterners since the last episode of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman aired...

 

[busterman62]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

The thing saving Hillary is that her Republican opponents in the general are, respectively, a scatterbrained hairpiece and a smirking bag of dog feces.

Q: Which candidate is the hairpiece and which is the feces?
A: Yes

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I just read about some PAC that's unaffiliated with Cruz sending out an attack ad using a nude pic of Melania Trump from 16 years ago, during her modeling days. That started a Twitter slapfest between Drumpf and Cruz as Drumpf threatened to go after Cruz's wife next.

Soap Opera Digest has more believable stories in it than the political news services do these day.

 

[Jimjamesak]

WHat are they going to roll up their sleeves and do? this is the thing that confuses me. The system is built not to clean house in one cycle. They can't fire everyone. Power still is needed to accomplish things. The alternative is being played out in the House which has been completely ineffectual.

By getting out and voting and holding offices on the local level, something the DNC just doesn't seemed to be concerned about.

It's a pragmatic vs idealistic argument. Everybody on the Dem side sees the dumpster fire on the right-wing, the difference is in the reaction. The pragmatic, third way, Hillary/Rover side is saying "we've made some progress, let's hold the WH and the Senate and continue." There's the East Coast liberal/Kepler "idealistic" reaction of "they're dying, let's use Bernie to pull Hillary a little to left and springboard some." The Western liberal reaction is "they're dying! Let's finish them! Let's run on our ideals, it's not 1986 anymore let's take this progress we've made and go for it!"

The thought is you run on the ideals that a lot of us speak about, win and watch the House implode and use that to trigger a wave election in the mid-term and go. You still have to put in the work on the local level, but it starts with belief from the top.

 

[Jimjamesak]

To put it another way, while west coast liberals will form their plenary councils and complain, east coast liberals will graduate from the Ivies, go to DC, and change things from the inside.

(Just thought I'd trade snark for snark. In reality there is zero regional difference whatever; take it from someone who has spent a lot of time on both coasts. The conveyor belt is exactly the same, from Portland to Austin to Madison to Alexandria.)

Only to get sucked in and become part of it.

There is regional difference Kepler, the thinking in Alexandria and Brooklyn is different from the thinking in Seattle or Portland. They are very similar but they are very different.

 

[joecct]

I just read about some PAC that's unaffiliated with Cruz sending out an attack ad using a nude pic of Melania Trump from 16 years ago, during her modeling days. That started a Twitter slapfest between Drumpf and Cruz as Drumpf threatened to go after Cruz's wife next.

Soap Opera Digest has more believable stories in it than the political news services do these day.

Not to excuse it, but muckraking is nothing new. Grover Cleveland was accused of fostering an illegitimate child, Lincoln was an ape or gorilla, Grant was a drunk, etc.

I wish Milhous was alive. He'd understand and explain how the game is supposed to be played.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

By getting out and voting and holding offices on the local level, something the DNC just doesn't seemed to be concerned about.

It's a pragmatic vs idealistic argument. Everybody on the Dem side sees the dumpster fire on the right-wing, the difference is in the reaction. The pragmatic, third way, Hillary/Rover side is saying "we've made some progress, let's hold the WH and the Senate and continue." There's the East Coast liberal/Kepler "idealistic" reaction of "they're dying, let's use Bernie to pull Hillary a little to left and springboard some." The Western liberal reaction is "they're dying! Let's finish them! Let's run on our ideals, it's not 1986 anymore let's take this progress we've made and go for it!"

The thought is you run on the ideals that a lot of us speak about, win and watch the House implode and use that to trigger a wave election in the mid-term and go. You still have to put in the work on the local level, but it starts with belief from the top.

Local level I can understand. The let the house implode thing- it has already and the country is not the better for it. Every system is falling apart. In the end that will cost a crap load more money than trying to deal with stuff now.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

Not to excuse it, but muckraking is nothing new. Grover Cleveland was accused of fostering an illegitimate child, Lincoln was an ape or gorilla, Grant was a drunk, etc.

I wish Milhous was alive. He'd understand and explain how the game is supposed to be played.

I know it's nothing new, but we're hitting relatively new lows for our time. It used to be that these attacks were aimed directly at candidates, or how candidates handled these scurrilous events in their families' pasts. Now it's just the fact that it happened, the more salacious the better.

ETA: I recall during a poli sci course the professor showed news clippings from a gubernatorial race down south, I forget which state exactly (Georgia, I think), where Candidate A was deriding Candidate B because Candidate B's daughter was a thespian. At the time, the term lesbian was just making its way into the lexicon, and Candidate A was trying to get people to confuse the two terms, leading to people think Candidate B was a bad parent for allowing such a thing to happen to his own daughter.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I know it's nothing new, but we're hitting relatively new lows for our time. It used to be that these attacks were aimed directly at candidates, or how candidates handled these scurrilous events in their families' pasts. Now it's just the fact that it happened, the more salacious the better.

It's probably not an all-time low, but now media is so efficiently connected that a story anywhere is a story everywhere. That means the worst stories will aggregate at the highest level. It's the Gresham's Law of news.

c.f.: the best seller list, the list of most watched TV shows, the list of most watched movies, the list of most popular songs, etc... The market, when perfectly served, dictates a descent into idiocy.

 

[leswp1]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I know it's nothing new, but we're hitting relatively new lows for our time. It used to be that these attacks were aimed directly at candidates, or how candidates handled these scurrilous events in their families' pasts. Now it's just the fact that it happened, the more salacious the better.

This. No boundries. Who in the world has an empty closet? I know it is morally bankrupt but personally I don't really care about someone's sexual habits, whether their wife was naked 18 yrs ago etc. The media has played a huge part in this. It used to be that they turned their head and didn't report that stuff. JFK was a skank but they covered the politics, not who he slept with. Now they report it, even if it might not be true. If they decline some idjit on social media will post things totally unvetted.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I'm not sure I've seen as clear an example of western frontier smugness against easterners since the last episode of Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman aired...

Or the death of Biggie.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 Part, let's say, X: There's a red moon rising On the Cuyahoga River

I love this attitude from Hilary people. "It's already over! Just go away!"

And then wonder why people say "I'm not voting for Hilary in November"?

3 states, and almost assuredly a 4th, in one region of the country just sharply rejected Hillary and all it can muster is a meh? You supporters of her are just as arrogant and elitist as she is!

As much as we laugh at the Republican dumpster fire it's masking the split that's happening on the Democratic side. There's a lot of resentment among people on this side of the country from either being forgotten or forsaken by the Dem elite like Hillary. And yeah it'll probably hold together for an election or two but to ignore it is probably not the best course.

What part of "Hillary has won 2.5M more votes than Bernie" are you struggling with? Or her 250 lead in pledged delegates? If you aren't the majority, you don't get to make the rules. That's life, son. You might want to get used to it instead of waving your fist at rallies. This whole talk of a split is nonsense. Democrats, even Bernie and Hillary, agreed over 90% of the time when they were both in the Senate. Furthermore, Sanders proposals are so absurd he can't even get congressional Dems such as Pelosi, a pretty liberal Dem in her own right, to climb on board.

The sad tragedy of Bernie is that if he had workable solutions to problems, he might be able to get things done. Unfortunately the combination of absolutist + unrealistic has contributed to very little if any legislation sponsored by Bernie and passed by Congress over the 25 years he's been in that institution.

 

[Jimjamesak]

What part of "Hillary has won 2.5M more votes than Bernie" are you struggling with? Or her 250 lead in pledged delegates? If you aren't the majority, you don't get to make the rules. That's life, son. You might want to get used to it instead of waving your fist at rallies. This whole talk of a split is nonsense. Democrats, even Bernie and Hillary, agreed over 90% of the time when they were both in the Senate. Furthermore, Sanders proposals are so absurd he can't even get congressional Dems such as Pelosi, a pretty liberal Dem in her own right, to climb on board.

The sad tragedy of Bernie is that if he had workable solutions to problems, he might be able to get things done. Unfortunately the combination of absolutist + unrealistic has contributed to very little if any legislation sponsored by Bernie and passed by Congress over the 25 years he's been in that institution.

And you still don't get it. Quit doing the scoreboard pointing and actually listen. Large majorities in 3 different states, two of which are Democratic bellwethers, just flat out rejected Hillary and all you can say is "that's life, get used to it"? Did you miss all the talk of "arrogant" or "elitist"? How do you plan on winning in November if places like this can't stand her?

Listen, the DNC's ramrodding of Hillary in this primary is doing more than just ruffling feathers. People have as much dislike at the Democratic leadership as they do at Republicans. It isn't positions or anything like that, it's about treatment. And Hillary and the DNC have been treating Bernie supporters like garbage, your posts on this a prime example. Telling people to get in line and shut up won't work. You better start listening and try to make friends or don't surprised if you're left hanging.