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Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

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Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Our first job is to win. Our second job is to govern with the right policies. Rover's got the first one covered and I've got the second one. :)

I keep him from giving away everything we're fighting for in order to win, and he keeps me from being such a purist that we don't win.

I'd love to see this reflected on the ticket, with Hillary representing Rover and somebody (Sherrod Brown maybe?) representing me.

Of course, all of this is moot since the Bob Gray / Kepler National Unity Ticket is going to trounce everybody. Vote NUT!
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

LynahFan said:
I didn't say it was impossible to do both, nor even that you personally don't do both. Your postings make it abundantly clear which you care about more.
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Let me see if I can explain this to you. Ever been in say a work setting, or even a sporting contest, where you had rivals who you respected, but also had to deal with irrational jerks? As in people you couldn't reason with despite your best efforts? Now, lets say you beat them in something, either for a promotion or a baseball/hoops/etc game or whatever. You know what? Go ahead and gloat. Not at everyone who opposes you, but at the ones who do so out of spite.

Now, how does this relate? Simple: Modern day conservatism, as represented by the Republican party, is made up of a majority of irrational jerks. Simply put they need to get their noses rubbed in a Hillary victory. There is no reasoning with them. Does this mean every conservative is a jerk? No. However only continued electoral @ ssbeatings will get the so called normal conservatives to get off their duffs and send the nuts packing. The fact that said beating could be administered by Hillary, a person labeled with the endearing term "Femi-Nazi" not too long ago, only makes this even better.

Apologies if I don't fit the liberal caricature from the 60's of a peacenik bringing a bouquet of flowers to a knife fight, but I'd rather show up with a Predator Drone. Confrontational Liberalism aka Smug A ss Liberalism, might be the new normal because younger libs like myself aren't too keen on coddling our political rivals. As the past and present has shown, that doesn't get your agenda very far and we've got some big problems to tackle.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Confrontation and gloating are completely different. Confrontation is Obama since 2010: he learned the GOP either cannot or will not compromise, and he stopped going halfway to them only to have them back up and tell him to come further. Confrontation is vital, and I agree that in the 80s and again during the 00s we were self-sabotaging by attempting to find common ground with the sociopathology of Movement Conservatism. All we did was assist in the destruction of the policies we favored, while appearing mealy-mouthed and incapable of leadership to the voters.

But standing over the body and gloating is NEVER good politics. Notice that the only presidents who left office with their popularity thriving, Reagan and Clinton, didn't do it. It comes across at best as juvenile and pandering to the worst aspects of the base, and it can raise doubts about the seriousness of the party for meeting what are after all real world, adult, challenges in the world. Think of how craven and doltish the GOP Clown Car looked in 2012 with their adolescent crowing and triumphalist demagoguery. Everybody knows when the gladiator is defenseless and the emperor gives a thumbs down, you drop your sword and take the high road. You've made it to the end zone. Act like you've been there before.
 
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Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Kepler said:
Just keep track of how you vote in the next 3 or 4 elections. :p

I absolutely used to think there were undecideds and independents, and that I was one of them. There aren't, and I wasn't, I just hadn't figured it out.

Voting is not rational, it's tribal.
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Having not experienced the same epiphany, I will continue to delude myself and vote as before. If it's close, I vote against the perceived poorer option. If it's a foregone conclusion, I make a quality write in (Bozo, Captain America, Freddie Meyer, etc)

FWIW, even the Daily Kos agrees with me that true independents exist
Only 7 percent of the population are independents who truly claim not to lean one way or the other
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Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Kepler said:
Confrontation and gloating are completely different. Confrontation is Obama since 2010: he learned the GOP either cannot or will not compromise, and he stopped going halfway to them only to have them back up and tell him to come further. Confrontation is vital, and I agree that in the 80s and again during the 00s we were self-sabotaging by attempting to find common ground with the sociopathology of Movement Conservatism. All we did was assist in the destruction of the policies we favored, while appearing mealy-mouthed and incapable of leadership to the voters.

But standing over the body and gloating is NEVER good politics. Notice that the only presidents who left office with their popularity thriving, Reagan and Clinton, didn't do it. It comes across at best as juvenile and pandering to the worst aspects of the base, and it can raise doubts about the seriousness of the party for meeting what are after all real world, adult, challenges in the world. Think of how craven and doltish the GOP Clown Car looked in 2012 with their adolescent crowing and triumphalist demagoguery. Everybody knows when the gladiator is defenseless and the emperor gives a thumbs down, you drop your sword and take the high road. You've made it to the end zone. Act like you've been there before.
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Reagan (and his people) weren't gloating at the end of his Presidency??? Were you here in the US back then?

Gloating vs reasonable opponents = bad. Gloating to irrational jerks = good. The expression is "it ain't braggin' if you can do it". So, I wouldn't be taking out full page ads in the hometown newspapers of Sens Collins, Murkowski, Flake even, or Gov Snyder saying "nyah nyah nyah nyah" or "Take It In The Face". Would I do that to Itch McConnell or Darrell Issa? In the words of conservative intellectual Sarah Palin, You Betcha! :D
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Rover said:
Gloating to irrational jerks = good.
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No, it only risks making them look like sympathetic figures in the eyes of lofo voters. Plus it's bad karma.

But we will have to disagree and live in peace. A Democratic party so broad it contains you and me is going to win a lot of elections. A Democratic party so narrow that it purges you or me for ideological or tactical reasons is not.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

I call myself an independent. I would say I probably lean right more often than left. However, I also see with regards to a lot of social issues, where more could be accomplished if both sides would quit parroting the moonbat/wingnut talking points and work together. Environmental/conservation efforts, for instance - lefties like green spaces and nature, righties want places to hunt, fish, and camp with the boys. Abortions could become considerably rarer if righties would agree that abstinence-only sex ed is a failure.
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Kepler said:
No, it only risks making them look like sympathetic figures in the eyes of lofo voters. Plus it's bad karma.

But we will have to disagree and live in peace. A Democratic party so broad it contains you and me is going to win a lot of elections. A Democratic party so narrow that it purges you or me for ideological or tactical reasons is not.
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Act with class in victory and you rob your opponent of that little extra motivation to beat you next time.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
I call myself an independent. I would say I probably lean right more often than left. However, I also see with regards to a lot of social issues, where more could be accomplished if both sides would quit parroting the moonbat/wingnut talking points and work together. Environmental/conservation efforts, for instance - lefties like green spaces and nature, righties want places to hunt, fish, and camp with the boys. Abortions could become considerably rarer if righties would agree that abstinence-only sex ed is a failure.
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Physics is King, Biology is Queen and their rule is absolute. That said, not doing something is a 100% guarantee of accomplishing nothing.

It's just in this day and age you're trying to stop the tide.
 
Rover said:
Reagan (and his people) weren't gloating at the end of his Presidency??? Were you here in the US back then?

Gloating vs reasonable opponents = bad. Gloating to irrational jerks = good. The expression is "it ain't braggin' if you can do it". So, I wouldn't be taking out full page ads in the hometown newspapers of Sens Collins, Murkowski, Flake even, or Gov Snyder saying "nyah nyah nyah nyah" or "Take It In The Face". Would I do that to Itch McConnell or Darrell Issa? In the words of conservative intellectual Sarah Palin, You Betcha! :D
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Oh no, take out that full page ad on Murkowski, she's gone hard right lately and alienated a lot of her non-Republican allies. I've said it before but her race in 2016 is gonna be a fascinating one. We're getting a nice preview already with the Anchorage mayoral race.p
 
Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

joecct said:
Physics is King, Biology is Queen and their rule is absolute. That said, not doing something is a 100% guarantee of accomplishing nothing.

It's just in this day and age you're trying to stop the tide.
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I think the idea that there is an increasing moral failing "in this day and age" is a fallacy, Joe. Premartial/extramartial sex has been happening from the beginning, to the point that all of the major religious texts have made noise about it. Being right-leaning, I think it's downright noble if you can hold off that long, but I won't judge people who don't, and I also believe in some level of pragmatism with regards to other, related social issues.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
I think the idea that there is an increasing moral failing "in this day and age" is a fallacy, Joe. Premartial/extramartial sex has been happening from the beginning, to the point that all of the major religious texts have made noise about it. Being right-leaning, I think it's downright noble if you can hold off that long, but I won't judge people who don't, and I also believe in some level of pragmatism with regards to other, related social issues.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you. I just wish people would be more careful before they do the deed.
 
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