Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Needless to say, I think nearly all of this is bunk. The one thing that is true is that voting patterns established after 2 elections are very hard to break, so mid 20-year olds who are tied enough into politics to have voted twice for Obama will likely be captured Dems for life.

Your Boomer slam is a favorite meme right now among a certain type of Journalistic Jihadist, but suffice to say that (1) there's zero upside and lots of risk in using that sort of dismissive language for an enormous portion of the electorate and (2) it says nothing about future generations, which will be influenced by the events of their day and could as easily be another Reagan generation as an Obama generation.

I hate to see the errors of 2000 being repeated by Hillary's core supporters. These arguments reek of over-confidence and establishment groupthink and are the type of position that history just loves to see crash and burn.

Boomers get what they deserve. A whinier generation we've never seen. Its no coincidence that group reaching voting age and GOP electoral victories occured at the same time. Conservative philosophy speaks to the "do as I say not as I do, take care of me first" crowd. Does that sound like a particular group of people to you? When they were the largest bloc of people, they gave us the Reagans and Bushes of the world. The bread and butter of right wing support is people in their 60's and 70's. Oldest boomers are in their late 60's. Hmmm...

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

That's the myth of the baby boomers. While 60's campus radicals may have gotten headlines, consider this. The big liberal elections of 1960-1964 were done with zero help from Boomers, as they weren't eligible to vote until at least the 1968 elections (and even then only those born in 46 to mid 47 would have been old enough). Only in '72 with the change in voting age would have captured most of them.

So, it was NEVER boomers giving libs their congressional mandates. It was the WWII Generation. I say those whiny, self centered Boomers were always GOP leaners in totality. Especially when the 80's rolled around and they hit their late 20's and early 30's.

Millenials for whatever reasons share few social norms with their Boomer parents but line up closer to Gen X. While you had once put forth the theory that people get more conservative when they get older, that theory has been debunked. Plus we already have a voting pattern to review as Millenials have been voting since 2004.

Can I propose a new definition for Millenials that doesn't include me in that group? I really, really hate being lumped in with them.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Boomers get what they deserve. A whinier generation we've never seen.

Even if so, all that means is the temperature and humidity were such that that cake got baked that way. To the extent that generations have an identity at all (highly suspect), it obviously derives from external factors, since there is nothing inherent in the people born in a certain time period that distinguishes them. So really all you're arguing is that a generation which has an easy time of it demographically evinces certain characteristics around the margins. I'd suggest that the need to label and judge everything in terms of generations is itself a Boomer myth which you have fallen for hook, line and sinker.

 

[Rover]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Lets just agree you've been sniffing glue again and we'll call it a day!

In other news, Walker says most significant foreign policy decision in his lifetime was Reagan firing air traffic controllers? This mind you from a guy born in 1967. His most important foreign policy event was that? This guy is Republican Jesus? Yeah....



BOB SCHIEFFER: "Let me ask you about something that you said previously. You told a gathering that the most significant foreign policy decision of your lifetime was Ronald Reagan's ending of the 1981 air traffic controller strike. You said it sent a message not only across America, it sent a message around the world. Don't you think there may have been a few things while I agree that that was a significant development, a few things maybe a little more important like the Nixon's opening to China, for example, the decision to go after Osama bin Laden. Do you really think that was the most significant foreign policy statement of your lifetime?

GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER: Well, I think those were all important things. Don't get me wrong in that regard. But this is not something I hold alone. Former Secretary of State George Shultz said that that was the most significant action during the-- the Reagan administration. I came of age during the-- the-- the Reagan administration. I was I think I believe just turned thirteen two days before his election in 1980. And for me, looking at that kind of leadership, he set the tone, not just domestically with that action; he sent a message around the world as-- as you just read off, I think not only to our allies, this is-- was someone who was serious that that could be trusted. But in combination with our adversaries, they sent a clear message, not to mess with him. You-- you'd combine that clear leadership position he took early in his administration with the buildup in the military, much like we need today to get back to a minimum, at least to Gates' level budget for the Department of Defense. You combine that to what he did in the eighties with the leadership he showed earlier on his term. And that's why I believe, in many regards, we had one of the lowest levels of military engagement, not because the President-- President Reagan was afraid to engage but because our adversaries knew he would if needed; and I think that made for a safer world that was peace through strength, personified.
"

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

The tl; dr of Walker's comment is "Reagan GOOD!"

But, as noted below, Reagan's old bubble gum. The Republicans' problem is nobody can name a single Republican since Reagan who has done anything positive, while menawhile there are dozens who have shat the bed.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

The tl; dr of Walker's comment is "Reagan GOOD!"

But, as noted below, Reagan's old bubble gum. The Republicans' problem is nobody can name a single Republican since Reagan who has done anything positive, while menawhile there are dozens who have shat the bed.

And they have to go back to Eisenhower before Reagan and they've thrown out everything he stood for so Reagan is all they have. Amazing how bankrupt that party is and yet they still get people to vote for them.

 

[joecct]

And they have to go back to Eisenhower before Reagan and they've thrown out everything he stood for so Reagan is all they have. Amazing how bankrupt that party is and yet they still get people to vote for them.

It is well known that Ike, LBJ, Sam Rayburn, and the Treasury secretary would sit down over bourbon and branch water and settle on the budget for the next year. That's when the Leaders said "Poop!" and every Rep and Senator went in the corner and delivered. Times have changed.

Kep - figure 1973 or so when party discipline went into the dustbin?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

It is well known that Ike, LBJ, Sam Rayburn, and the Treasury secretary would sit down over bourbon and branch water and settle on the budget for the next year. That's when the Leaders said "Poop!" and every Rep and Senator went in the corner and delivered. Times have changed.

Kep - figure 1973 or so when party discipline went into the dustbin?

TV. It made the individual Congresscritters into recognizable national figures. Independent fundraising followed, and without that cudgel the party apparatchiks lost their power. So, yeah, mid-70s the dam broke.

It's like Gloria Swanson's line in Sunset Boulevard. "I am big. It's the pictures that got small."

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

It'll work with the GOP base who cheered Lindsey when he said he would drone any American who joined ISIS.

Yeah appealing to the base gets you nothing, if the GOP wants any shot they need to woo the middle. Since they have no idea how to do that though it wont matter.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

And they have to go back to Eisenhower before Reagan and they've thrown out everything he stood for so Reagan is all they have. Amazing how bankrupt that party is and yet they still get people to vote for them.

It's really hard for one of the two major parties to fail. They are aircraft carriers under full steam with immense momentum. Just look at how hard it is to get to 60 percent in each chamber.

The Democratic Party did everything it could to destroy itself in the 20 years between 1965 and 1985, and they still barely paid in Congress (obviously, the White House was a different story). The same thing appears be happening with the GOP in the 20 years from 2000 through 2020, and even if they lose the White House again they will be somewhere within 45-55% in each Chamber through 2020. The parties are nearly bulletproof.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Yeah appealing to the base gets you nothing, if the GOP wants any shot they need to woo the middle. Since they have no idea how to do that though it wont matter.

You'd be surprised.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

You'd be surprised.

No I wouldnt...for a guy who parrots Simple Math you sure do seem to ignore it when it disproves the sky is falling

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Yeah appealing to the base gets you nothing, if the GOP wants any shot they need to woo the middle. Since they have no idea how to do that though it wont matter.

They know how, but they're screwed. They portray every issue as soteriology so it is extremely difficult for them to compromise, but compromise is how you shed your partisan rhetorical excesses and fight your way back to the middle. The Democrats learned this the hard way in the 80s. The GOP is learning it now.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

The tl; dr of Walker's comment is "Reagan GOOD!"

Was this a response to Walker saying the greatest foreign policy decision in his lifetime was Reagan ending the air traffic controller strike?

Edit: Ok so it was. I just missed Rover's post.

Yeah, I watched that live and my jaw was dropped the whole time. I meant to post that on here because I found it to be so... I don't even know how to describe it. I was dumbfounded.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

No I wouldnt...for a guy who parrots Simple Math you sure do seem to ignore it when it disproves the sky is falling

Yet, they get nearly 50% of the popular vote, they control a house in Minnesota, and the Governor's mansion in Wisconsin. Yet, you excuse them like it's a sure thing. Hell, Scot Brown was elected to statewide office in Massachusetts for cripes sake not so long ago.

I don't get the mentality.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Yet, they get nearly 50% of the popular vote, they control a house in Minnesota, and the Governor's mansion in Wisconsin. Yet, you excuse them like it's a sure thing. Hell, Scot Brown was elected to statewide office in Massachusetts for cripes sake not so long ago.

I don't get the mentality.

Scott Brown, a republican? That's a laugh. More like RINO.

In all seriousness, though, wooing the middle will not get the GOP anywhere. They tried that with McCain in 2008. It didn't work. The reason Dubya won in 2004 is because the GOP was able to effectively motivate the party base, instead of playing the fence trying to please everyone.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Scott Brown, a republican? That's a laugh. More like RINO.

In all seriousness, though, wooing the middle will not get the GOP anywhere. They tried that with McCain in 2008. It didn't work. The reason Dubya won in 2004 is because the GOP was able to effectively motivate the party base, instead of playing the fence trying to please everyone.

Even the Rhino's are voting in lock step.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Even the Rhino's are voting in lock step.

Well, what percentage of populace, would you say, are straight-tickets?

I remember listening to Michael Savage in 2008, talking about how awful the candidates were for President, and then all of a sudden the day before the election, does a 180 and pleas with the audience to vote for McCain. That's not how you motivate a party, that's how you straight-ticket.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Well, what percentage of populace, would you say, are straight-tickets?

I'll be if you limit it to Pres and Congress, it's around 75%. If you include Gov / Lt Gov it probably drops to about 67%. Including lower offices than that is pretty useless. Even I vote for Republican state reps sometimes, because those just come down to which one is slightly less corrupted by realtors.

 

[joecct]

Re: Campaign 2016 - It's never too late to start all over again!

Boston Globe is reporting that Hillary wants Castro as her VP running mate.

Julian, lest you think that the rapprochement wih Cuba is going too far.