Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

[Handyman]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Warren. Klobuchar.

Klobuchar wont run because it would take away from her speaking engagements in Minnesota (I love her but I worked like 25 parties she gave speeches at)

Warren definitely, plus there has to be someone we dont know who hasnt spent half his/her life ****ing off half the left leaning voters and all of the right leaning ones like Hillary has.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

again, is this new? when did this change occur?

They always did concede, but used to be you knocked back a belt of whiskey, called your opponent from your hotel room, politely congratulated him, then went downstairs and thanked your campaign staff. Your remarks would be in the morning papers, so if anything weird happened overnight they "stopped the presses" and everybody on both sides changed costume.

Below Senate races there wouldn't be TV there outside of major city districts. But now there's TV everywhere, so the political instinct kicks in and you get one more public forum to Be Brave (and set up your next run). Since weird things can still happen, hilarity sometimes ensues.

 

[joecct]

Scooby, who did the Dems run against these guys?

Kepler is right, the Dems arent running on their values, they are running on rhetoric and how they are "just better" or not as evil. That doesnt win elections.

I will say this though, if they want to win the WH in 2016 they best not run Hillary. She will divide the party. They need someone better or she will be the Mittens of this election. (barring the GOP running some idiot like Palin or Ryan)

I will submit that in the Maryland gubernatorial the Democratic candidate did run on the party's values, which in MD is there wasn't a tax or fee they did not raise or impose. The electorate rejected that course.

How much of those taxes and fees can Hogan eliminate or get rolled back? With a Democrat dominated legislature very few. However, for the next four years, maybe the excesses get curbed and I can live without emptying my wallet to Annapolis.

 

[MattS]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

There was a woman (NY assembly woman I think) on Progressive Radio who was saying that that the Green Party in NY was a Cuomo prop to force the Working Families Party off the ballot. I know nothing about the merits either way.

I think that person was wrong. The Green Party has run for the past two elections with Howie Hawkins who actually has different ideas (some are unrealistic but at least different) and in 2010 they gained back ballot status and kept it last night. Their party platform differs greatly in a lot of area's from the Dems. I don't believe they are a prop for Cuomo as they have been around longer than he has in NYS politics. I do believe that a lot of the increase they saw was a "protest" vote against Cuomo. (164k vs. 60k)

I will agree that the WFP is a joke. It's a puppet regime for the Dems. They basically sold their soul to Cuomo to get him on their line. Their leadership tried to "force" Cuomo to sign onto some of their agenda where they differ from the Dems, he told them what they wanted to hear, and once he was one their line he quickly reversed course and went back to his original stance. In some ways it is too bad they kept their ballot status. They did take a huge hit though (113k vs. 155k).

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Warren definitely, plus there has to be someone we dont know who hasnt spent half his/her life ****ing off half the left leaning voters and all of the right leaning ones like Hillary has.

As someone who would love to live in a world where Warren could become president, I have to say it is impossible. Her ideas are spot on -- put them in the mouth of a Strong Jaw With Good Hair and they win. But Warren herself activates every anti-intellectual, anti-intelligence, populist numb nut instinct in the average voter. To win a national election you have to be Gee Ur Golly Shucks I'm No Rocket Scientist Uh-Herp and Warren is not that. Hillary, bless her shriveled, atrophied, twisted, cankered, crone's heart, has learned to play dumb to not offend the jocks. Liz hasn't -- like Adlai Stephenson or Thomas Dewey, she's simply too smart to win.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

I will submit that in the Maryland gubernatorial the Democratic candidate did run on the party's values, which in MD is there wasn't a tax or fee they did not raise or impose. The electorate rejected that course.

How much of those taxes and fees can Hogan eliminate or get rolled back? With a Democrat dominated legislature very few. However, for the next four years, maybe the excesses get curbed and I can live without emptying my wallet to Annapolis.

The irony here is we had always planned to move from MD to VA but were a little bummed to be leaving civilization for the sticks. Now it looks like it will be just the opposite.

 

[MattS]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

If elections are only about charisma then I can't imagine the Iron Maiden winning, but she seems to really inspire women so who knows? On the other hand, can anybody think of a reasonable Dem challenger? It sure aint Smilin' Joe.

My wife very much likes Hillary. I think it is mostly because she sees her as the only realistically electable liberal-ish woman candidate for president. I think this reasoning holds true in many women's minds and in some ways it is past time we had a female president. I think Hillary did an acceptable job as NYS Senator so there are worse people out there.

You can be sure that Cuomo will at a minimum test the waters for a presidential run. Everything he does as NYS Governor is with that goal in mind.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

I think that person was wrong.

You are likely right. I wanted to know somebody local's opinion since when I heard that I thought "huh, that doesn't seem right."

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

My wife very much likes Hillary. I think it is mostly because she sees her as the only realistically electable liberal-ish woman candidate for president. I think this reasoning holds true in many women's minds and in some ways it is past time we had a female president. I think Hillary did an acceptable job as NYS Senator so there are worse people out there.

You can be sure that Cuomo will at a minimum test the waters for a presidential run. Everything he does as NYS Governor is with that goal in mind.

My wife, who is VERY politically savvy, does not find Hillary off-putting; even finds her somewhat charismatic (shiver). I have to say in Hillary's recent appearances she has learned to play the image game much better than 2008. Anyway, Mrs. Kepler called the last two races, both primaries and general, perfectly about this far out, and this time she thinks Hillary will coast to the nomination and then win the usual 52/48 in the Fall. She briefed Clinton several times when she was SoS and was impressed with how sharp she was -- not just that she got everything, but that she asked smart follow-ups. She was also a little intimidated by her, which is not her reaction to anybody else I know. Her impression was that Hill doesn't suffer fools gladly, and that she can't be bamboozled. I guess 50 years with Slick Willy have given her a PhD is detecting mendacity.

She has tried to convince me that Hillary is a Crusader For Good -- essentially, a Tracy Flick. My impression was always that Hillary was a Crusader For Hillary, but again that's just a gut reaction not based on anything real.

If it's inevitable, I guess I will relax and try to enjoy it. There are worse choices than an LBJ in the White House.

 

[MattS]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

My wife, who is VERY politically savvy, does not find Hillary off-putting; even finds her somewhat charismatic (shiver). I have to say in Hillary's recent appearances she has learned to play the image game much better than 2008. Anyway, Mrs. Kepler called the last two races, both primaries and general, perfectly about this far out, and this time she thinks Hillary will coast to the nomination and then win the usual 52/48 in the Fall. She briefed Clinton several times when she was SoS and was impressed with how sharp she was -- not just that she got everything, but that she asked smart follow-ups. She was also a little intimidated by her, which is not her reaction to anybody else I know. Her impression was that Hill doesn't suffer fools gladly, and that she can't be bamboozled.

I've met Hillary a few of times at various functions and spent some time with her (although no where near like what Mrs. Kep has) and I would agree on your wife's assesment of her. I also found her to be intelligent and not one to be fooled by BS. Whether that gets her the nomination and/or makes her a good President remains to be seen. IMO though she won't do worse than Obama if elected.

 

[joecct]

My wife, who is VERY politically savvy, does not find Hillary off-putting; even finds her somewhat charismatic (shiver). I have to say in Hillary's recent appearances she has learned to play the image game much better than 2008. Anyway, Mrs. Kepler called the last two races, both primaries and general, perfectly about this far out, and this time she thinks Hillary will coast to the nomination and then win the usual 52/48 in the Fall. She briefed Clinton several times when she was SoS and was impressed with how sharp she was -- not just that she got everything, but that she asked smart follow-ups. She was also a little intimidated by her, which is not her reaction to anybody else I know. Her impression was that Hill doesn't suffer fools gladly, and that she can't be bamboozled. I guess 50 years with Slick Willy have given her a PhD is detecting mendacity.

She has tried to convince me that Hillary is a Crusader For Good -- essentially, a Tracy Flick. My impression was always that Hillary was a Crusader For Hillary, but again that's just a gut reaction not based on anything real.

If it's inevitable, I guess I will relax and try to enjoy it. There are worse choices than an LBJ in the White House.

Time to re-read Second Foundation

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Its a tough time to have our first 70something woman president. I'm not a fan. But this country seesaws and her lot just improved some last night.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Time to re-read Second Foundation

I was thinking more Salvor Hardin:

"An atom-blaster is a good weapon, but it can point both ways."

"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety."

"To succeed, planning alone is insufficient. One must improvise as well."

"Nothing has to be true, but everything has to sound like it was."

"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right."

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

There was a woman (NY assembly woman I think) on Progressive Radio who was saying that that the Green Party in NY was a Cuomo prop to force the Working Families Party off the ballot. I know nothing about the merits either way.

It wasn't the "Green Party" that was a Cuomo prop to force WFP off the ballot, it was the "Women's Equality Party" that he started in part to rid himself of WFP. Right concept wrong label.

 

[joecct]

I was thinking more Salvor Hardin:

"An atom-blaster is a good weapon, but it can point both ways."

"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety."

"To succeed, planning alone is insufficient. One must improvise as well."

"Nothing has to be true, but everything has to sound like it was."

"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right."

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

I wonder if we had this discussion in front of the electorate (or the media) how many would think we're a bunch of fruitcakes.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

FF is a liberal [who once was a] Democrat [before they moved so far to the left and left him alone in the middle]

Liberal does not equal totalitarian.

 

[geezer]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

My wife, who is VERY politically savvy, does not find Hillary off-putting; even finds her somewhat charismatic (shiver). I have to say in Hillary's recent appearances she has learned to play the image game much better than 2008. Anyway, Mrs. Kepler called the last two races, both primaries and general, perfectly about this far out, and this time she thinks Hillary will coast to the nomination and then win the usual 52/48 in the Fall.

And Mrs. Kepler is right. Hillary's twice the man Barry is, as they say. The only Republican that could challenge her this time is a moderate woman. Does the GOP have any more of those in the senate or govs?

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

538 has a good graphic (right pane) summarizing the Senate races. As of now it looks like the Dems are outperforming the 538 predictions by about 2 points. Not enough for the Senate, but maybe enough to turn some Govs.

Looks like that early indication was a mirage (to state the obvious). In the end the polling turned out to be heavily skewed toward the dems.

 

[rufus]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Gurt,

You nailed it. The Dems are a leaderless army, just a bunch of people talking about how much smarter they are then doing nothing but leading from behind. They got that from their President.

The Dems have been doing that for long before Obama became president. For whatever reason, they just seem scared witless to stand up and say, this is what we believe in, and this is what we're gonna do for you to make your lives better. Clinton might be the only one that's actually done that since Carter.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing

Minnesota saw huge wins for Dayton and Franken. Dems retain their seats in the US House but Republicans took control of the state legislature. Very weird.

I expected the Repubs to win one of the chambers, people like their branches split.