Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
Ah, thanks. I must have misheard.
Ah, thanks. I must have misheard.
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Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
- Thread starter Kepler
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Neither does conservatism. But the refusal to compromise and/or the idea that I know best and the rest of you are wrong leads us down the totalitarianism path.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
I thought Obama would have the guts to do it. Instead he curled up in the fetal position. Probably the most powerless Executive in my lifetime.
I thought Obama would have the guts to do it. Instead he curled up in the fetal position. Probably the most powerless Executive in my lifetime.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
What liberal positions strike you as totalitarian?
What liberal positions strike you as totalitarian?
trixR4kids
Well-known member
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
I took it to mean he thinks Obama is a totalitarian, not liberalism in general. That said it was kinda vague and I apologize if my interpretation is way off.
I took it to mean he thinks Obama is a totalitarian, not liberalism in general. That said it was kinda vague and I apologize if my interpretation is way off.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
It's worse than that. The liberal record is of achievements that did make people's lives better, and that were fought tooth and nail by the right. Liberals made women's suffrage, child labor laws, unions, food and drug regulation, the minimum wage, the expansion of the middle class, social security, Head Start, and Medicare happen, always fighting the usual constellation of "it's immoral" / "it's communism" emotional scare tactics. When conservatives abandoned the great start they had made on environmental protection, we carried on. We even made financial regulation happen for a while, ensuring a 70-year period without a huge economic disaster, until the money finally corrupted even us and led us into another depression.
Liberalism works, but liberals just won't take the gloves off. We are forever turning the other cheek, which is great theology but lousy politics.
It's worse than that. The liberal record is of achievements that did make people's lives better, and that were fought tooth and nail by the right. Liberals made women's suffrage, child labor laws, unions, food and drug regulation, the minimum wage, the expansion of the middle class, social security, Head Start, and Medicare happen, always fighting the usual constellation of "it's immoral" / "it's communism" emotional scare tactics. When conservatives abandoned the great start they had made on environmental protection, we carried on. We even made financial regulation happen for a while, ensuring a 70-year period without a huge economic disaster, until the money finally corrupted even us and led us into another depression.
Liberalism works, but liberals just won't take the gloves off. We are forever turning the other cheek, which is great theology but lousy politics.
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
Candidly, I have never heard or read anything that suggests that Obama refused or was afraid to go out on the campaign trail on behalf of Democrats and defend his administration and achievements. From afar it always appeared to me this was part of the strategy of the Democratic candidates. They knew Republicans wanted to make it about Obama, so the Democrats mistakenly thought that if they just hid him in the White House, the campaigns couldn't be about him. As a result, it came off as the Democrats being ashamed of him and his policies.
I don't know the answer to this question, but it's probably being debated this morning somewhere. To what extent did Obama go into hiding during this campaign (or, curl up in the fetal position as you put it) of his own volition, as opposed to stepping back into the shadows at the request of or as part of a larger strategy of making this campaign not about him or his policies?
Candidly, I have never heard or read anything that suggests that Obama refused or was afraid to go out on the campaign trail on behalf of Democrats and defend his administration and achievements. From afar it always appeared to me this was part of the strategy of the Democratic candidates. They knew Republicans wanted to make it about Obama, so the Democrats mistakenly thought that if they just hid him in the White House, the campaigns couldn't be about him. As a result, it came off as the Democrats being ashamed of him and his policies.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
Do you figure that by repeating that silly trope for the umpteenth time, it will eventually become true?
Do you figure that by repeating that silly trope for the umpteenth time, it will eventually become true?
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
Well, if Mitch has you fooled that he's actually a conservative then there's not really anything I can do about it. Or Ted Cruz, or Paul Ryan, or GW Bush. The list goes on and on. Even Mark Dayton here in Minnesota has some conservative streaks that Bush didn't have.
Do you figure that by repeating that silly trope for the umpteenth time, it will eventually become true?
Well, if Mitch has you fooled that he's actually a conservative then there's not really anything I can do about it. Or Ted Cruz, or Paul Ryan, or GW Bush. The list goes on and on. Even Mark Dayton here in Minnesota has some conservative streaks that Bush didn't have.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
The main problem with running Obama out there was where the races were. His net popularity was something like -30 in the key flip states. I'm sure Dubya wasn't campaigning for statewide candidates in NY and CA in 2006, either.
I look at Grimes as the classic example of how we campaigned poorly. She had a winning issue with Kynect, but she ran from it. When people said "well, that's Obamacare and I hate Obama" she should have turned it around. "I don't care what you call it, here's why it's a good thing that you are already benefiting from." In my experience, lowfo voters have at most two (poor) soundbite reasons for not even thinking about an issue (this is not an accident -- most campaigning is pushing thought-terminating cliches into people's heads to give them an excuse to be lazy). As soon as you break those down, you have conversations. Also, people like to know stuff -- the like to be That Guy as anybody who has ever argued sports can attest -- so even if you don't sway them, the next time they hear somebody lay down the soundbite falsehood they may even do your work for you.
When my coworkers say "I hate taxes" I respond with "I hate debt more," and then start explaining how at the end of the day the question is about tax fairness and tax distribution, and that when the GOP says "lower taxes" what they mean is "lower taxes on the rich, less services for you, more debt for you kids." That gets conversations started even among people you might think were completely inoculated from questioning the pseudo-religion of the right.
Locally, some Dems do this. Nationally, the only Dem who has done it (and he did it well) was Bill.
The main problem with running Obama out there was where the races were. His net popularity was something like -30 in the key flip states. I'm sure Dubya wasn't campaigning for statewide candidates in NY and CA in 2006, either.
I look at Grimes as the classic example of how we campaigned poorly. She had a winning issue with Kynect, but she ran from it. When people said "well, that's Obamacare and I hate Obama" she should have turned it around. "I don't care what you call it, here's why it's a good thing that you are already benefiting from." In my experience, lowfo voters have at most two (poor) soundbite reasons for not even thinking about an issue (this is not an accident -- most campaigning is pushing thought-terminating cliches into people's heads to give them an excuse to be lazy). As soon as you break those down, you have conversations. Also, people like to know stuff -- the like to be That Guy as anybody who has ever argued sports can attest -- so even if you don't sway them, the next time they hear somebody lay down the soundbite falsehood they may even do your work for you.
When my coworkers say "I hate taxes" I respond with "I hate debt more," and then start explaining how at the end of the day the question is about tax fairness and tax distribution, and that when the GOP says "lower taxes" what they mean is "lower taxes on the rich, less services for you, more debt for you kids." That gets conversations started even among people you might think were completely inoculated from questioning the pseudo-religion of the right.
Locally, some Dems do this. Nationally, the only Dem who has done it (and he did it well) was Bill.
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Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
So what happens if you hate taxes and debt? I don't think Hogan rolls back as much as he promised. I just want to stop the increases in taxes, spending and debt. A divided government should do much to accomplish that.
So what happens if you hate taxes and debt? I don't think Hogan rolls back as much as he promised. I just want to stop the increases in taxes, spending and debt. A divided government should do much to accomplish that.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
Unfortunately, if you want to avoid one you hafta have the other. Taxes are shots and debt is the flu.
Unfortunately, if you want to avoid one you hafta have the other. Taxes are shots and debt is the flu.
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
None of the "positions" do. it is only in implementation that I have major concerns.
How could anyone with a heart disagree with liberal "positions"? That has never been the issue, it's always been "how to go about it" where all the differences occur.
"feed hungry people"? I'm all for it. Force people to do so by confiscating their money and creating a "right to be fed" that never existed anywhere before? not so much. People "should" help those in need because it is the right thing to do; people in need do not have a right to be helped through government coercion.
None of the "positions" do. it is only in implementation that I have major concerns.
How could anyone with a heart disagree with liberal "positions"? That has never been the issue, it's always been "how to go about it" where all the differences occur.
"feed hungry people"? I'm all for it. Force people to do so by confiscating their money and creating a "right to be fed" that never existed anywhere before? not so much. People "should" help those in need because it is the right thing to do; people in need do not have a right to be helped through government coercion.
So what is spending? The diet?
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
Thomas Sowell had a brilliant riposte to this concept. I paraphrase:
Thomas Sowell had a brilliant riposte to this concept. I paraphrase:
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
Yes, Mobs are always smart and Mob Rules is always the way to go.
Yes, Mobs are always smart and Mob Rules is always the way to go.
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
So the nasty, one trick (you should pardon the expression) pony has lost in Texas. And after such a brilliant campaign. Hammering a guy in a wheelchair about his position on the handicapped. And criticizing his position on inter-racial marriage. Did the classless b*tch not notice Abbot's Latina wife? The last time I looked she hadn't broken the 40% barrier and hadn't even carried females. How's that "War on Women" working out as a campaign theme? Well, maybe Senator Uterus will save the day in CO. No? What a shame.
Texas did inflict Dan Patrick (Lieutenant Governor) on an unsuspecting America. He's the very model of a Tea Party nutter and should probably help Democrat fund raising. As the hippy dippy sports guy on the CBS affiliate, Patrick once appeared shirtless on the air and painted himself Columbia Blue in honor of the Oilers. The word clown doesn't quite get there in describing him.
So the nasty, one trick (you should pardon the expression) pony has lost in Texas. And after such a brilliant campaign. Hammering a guy in a wheelchair about his position on the handicapped. And criticizing his position on inter-racial marriage. Did the classless b*tch not notice Abbot's Latina wife? The last time I looked she hadn't broken the 40% barrier and hadn't even carried females. How's that "War on Women" working out as a campaign theme? Well, maybe Senator Uterus will save the day in CO. No? What a shame.
Texas did inflict Dan Patrick (Lieutenant Governor) on an unsuspecting America. He's the very model of a Tea Party nutter and should probably help Democrat fund raising. As the hippy dippy sports guy on the CBS affiliate, Patrick once appeared shirtless on the air and painted himself Columbia Blue in honor of the Oilers. The word clown doesn't quite get there in describing him.
Which is why the Founding Fathers went with a Republican form of government.
Re: Campaign 2014: The Epic Struggle To Win The Senate And Change Nothing
That's the backup motto in Chicago. "Vote early and often" being el numero uno of course.
That's the backup motto in Chicago. "Vote early and often" being el numero uno of course.
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