Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

On June 11, 2017, Puerto Rico held a referendum. The people voted to apply for US Statehood, 97% in favor. Now it's up to Congress to approve Puerto Rico's application as a state, which likely won't happen until both Congress and the White House are in the hands of the Democrats. And it won't be a quick process even then.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/puerto-rico-statehood-plebiscite-congress/530136/

LOL. It would be another example of a bill that would pass with only one party support. That's why I think the Democrats spending so much time vilifying the Republicans for using their majority will end up backfiring. The Republicans always have an out and they always have just enough power.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

I wonder if CT and RI would ever want to join forces with MA and NY. They could potentially save a lot of money as far as running the state goes.

If we're going to merge states, that's going in the opposite direction of what we should. The minimum population for statehood should be 1M.

DE joins MD.
ND merges with SD.
VT joins NH.
AK joins WA.
WY joins MT.

That gives us 5 to play around with:

DC regains their VA territories and gets statehood.
PR statehood.
CA splits into three states: Shasta (the north), Fresno (central), and old California (the south).
Annex Canada.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

On June 11, 2017, Puerto Rico held a referendum. The people voted to apply for US Statehood, 97% in favor. Now it's up to Congress to approve Puerto Rico's application as a state, which likely won't happen until both Congress and the White House are in the hands of the Democrats. And it won't be a quick process even then.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/puerto-rico-statehood-plebiscite-congress/530136/

I stand corrected. Wasn’t there a referendum they rejected in the recent past?

ETA: looking it up now, I remember there was a huge controversy over it. The turnout was historically low and it was boycotted by a good chunk of the nation.

As recently as 2014 they voted to reject statehood. They had their chances. Doesn’t mean we can treat them like ****, but they had them.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

It apparently got ground up in a local and corrupt political dispute.

I think 50 states / 100 Senators is a huge psychological barrier to adding more states. We'll have to start expelling a few before the obvious fixes (DC, PR, splitting CA).

Agreed. 50 is a very powerful number.

 

[alfablue]

I will say this about Puerto Rico, they had an opportunity to become a state but said, “**** your income tax.” Maybe next time that income tax wouldn’t be so bad.

Not sure why you interpret it that way. Puerto Rican’s pay about as much overall tax as anyone does, and pays SS tax, too. But they are not supported like any other state is, and worse in some cases- they pay the same social security and Medicare tax, but the medical payments back to the island is 1/2 compared to a state. It’s a big contributor to the overall economic issues they have. And it makes the medical system really bad.

They send more to the US than they get back.

When you then add in the anti Hispanic hype, there is less incentive to want to be part of the overall us society.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

If we're going to merge states, that's going in the opposite direction of what we should. The absolute minimum population for statehood should be 1M.

We're not going to merge, we're not going to change, and Puerto Rico and DC is never going to get statehood. Even if Puerto Rico is not a state they are still citizens and they need to be treated as such. Instead they get treated like DACA.

Tear down the statue in NY Harbor and be done with it.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Not sure why you interpret it that way. Puerto Rican’s pay about as much overall tax as anyone does, and pays SS tax, too. But they are not supported like any other state is, and worse in some cases- they pay the same social security and Medicare tax, but the medical payments back to the island is 1/2 compared to a state. It’s a big contributor to the overall economic issues they have. And it makes the medical system really bad.

They send more to the US than they get back.

When you then add in the anti Hispanic hype, there is less incentive to want to be part of the overall us society.

Yes, but they don’t pay federal income taxes. Which means not getting as much support probably would make sense in a vacuum. But obviously that’s not the only reason.

Look, all I’m saying is they’ve had numerous chances. They finally went for it, under protest, when a party that hates Hispanics was in complete control.

That being said, we still treat them like **** and they deserve better.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

I stand corrected. Wasn’t there a referendum they rejected in the recent past?

The recent referendum was rejected. It scored 97% for because every party boycotted it except one splinter group.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

I stand corrected. Wasn’t there a referendum they rejected in the recent past?

ETA: looking it up now, I remember there was a huge controversy over it. The turnout was historically low and it was boycotted by a good chunk of the nation.

As recently as 2014 they voted to reject statehood. They had their chances. Doesn’t mean we can treat them like ****, but they had them.

And I'm not sure why that matters- just because they don't want to be a state- does that mean we should treat them like foreigners? Since the 50's, there have been policies that brought Puerto Rico's economy into the overall US economy. Most of those incentives were phased out, but the end result of those policies were a number of US manufacturers who make stuff in Puerto Rico. This new rule just slapped a tax on those goods. For what reason? What does that accomplish?

After being devastated by TWO hurricanes, that's a kick in the balls to them. Again, with the migration to Florida and Texas, that should have a pretty big impact on the political nature of both states.

 

[joecct]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Kep

If DC retakes Alexandria and Arlington doesn't that hurt the Ds chances in Richmond?

 

[alfablue]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Yes, but they don’t pay federal income taxes. Which means not getting as much support probably would make sense in a vacuum. But obviously that’s not the only reason.

Look, all I’m saying is they’ve had numerous chances. They finally went for it, under protest, when a party that hates Hispanics was in complete control.

That being said, we still treat them like **** and they deserve better.

They do pay federal tax. Just not the same as you do. And they get screwed out of what they pay, too. Why should they get back that much less than they pay??

Again, how does that even matter that we now treat stuff being made there as being imported from a foreign country? AND they are supposed to be like a state with regards to shipping stuff- the Jones Act- adding even MORE cost to stuff they make and send to the US. How does it make any sense at all to take away the largest source of income from the island???

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Kep

If DC retakes Alexandria and Arlington doesn't that hurt the Ds chances in Richmond?

Yes. The plan isn't favorable to either party in the Senate.

Let's call each state a 1 rather than 2 for simplicity:

DE joins MD: blue -1
ND merges with SD: red -1
VT joins NH: blue -1
AK joins WA: sways WA into red: net blue -1
WY joins MT: red -1
DC regains their VA territories and gets statehood: sways VA to red, net red +1
PR statehood blue +1
CA splits into three states: Shasta (the north), Fresno (central), and old California (the south): net blue +1, red +1
Annex Canada: blue +1

Total effect: even

In the House, blue will gain, however, adding DC, PR and Canada. That is roughly equal to adding one democratic Texas' worth of citizens (30M roughly 60/40 blue).

 

[burd]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

If we're going to merge states, that's going in the opposite direction of what we should. The minimum population for statehood should be 1M.

DE joins MD.
ND merges with SD.
VT joins NH.
AK joins WA.
WY joins MT.

That gives us 5 to play around with:

CA splits into three states: Shasta (the north), Fresno (central), and old California (the south).

California partition could be fun. NoCal and SoCal is an easy one--they'd both be in favor. Central gets a little trickier, depending on where you draw lines, though most Bay Area and Santa Cruz Mtn residents, including Big Sur, consider themselves of the same stock (and could care less about the peasants in the valley). But there would be some very fun battles over ag money in the Valley and water in the Sierras.

Big Dakota would be a giant. Combine its sizeable nuclear arsenal and oil reserves along with the superior genetic makeup of the population (brains and looks, mostly), and you have a formidable state that would have every reason to secede.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

California partition could be fun. NoCal and SoCal is an easy one--they'd both be in favor. Central gets a little trickier, depending on where you draw lines, though most Bay Area and Santa Cruz Mtn residents, including Big Sur, consider themselves of the same stock (and could care less about the peasants in the valley). But there would be some very fun battles over ag money in the Valley and water in the Sierras.

I'm tossing the Republicans a bone by carving out a Central CA. Make Fresno the capital. It will be the most boring state in the nation and have political and social policies equivalent to Arizona.

 

[BassAle]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

ETA: looking it up now, I remember there was a huge controversy over it. The turnout was historically low and it was boycotted by a good chunk of the nation.

Turn out was 25%. According to The Statehood movement in Puerto Rico Wikipedia article, "this figure is comparable to other states’ during their admission process: Wisconsin’s statehood plebiscite had a 17% turnout, Arizona 7%, Hawaii 35%, and Alaska had a 21% turnout." however there is no citation given, so this may not be accurate.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

AK joins WA..

that gerrymander wouldn't even be the worst looking at the end of the day

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

They do pay federal tax. Just not the same as you do. And they get screwed out of what they pay, too. Why should they get back that much less than they pay??

Again, how does that even matter that we now treat stuff being made there as being imported from a foreign country? AND they are supposed to be like a state with regards to shipping stuff- the Jones Act- adding even MORE cost to stuff they make and send to the US. How does it make any sense at all to take away the largest source of income from the island???

Every blue state gets back less than they pay in.

Regarding the second paragraph. you aren’t reading what I’m saying. You’re just reacting. Our response has been abysmal. They’re citizens of the US and we’re not helping. It’s unconscionable.

We should help them with whatever they need and they should vote to become a state the next time the people who don’t hate brown people are back in power.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Turn out was 25%. According to The Statehood movement in Puerto Rico Wikipedia article, "this figure is comparable to other states’ during their admission process: Wisconsin’s statehood plebiscite had a 17% turnout, Arizona 7%, Hawaii 35%, and Alaska had a 21% turnout." however there is no citation given, so this may not be accurate.

I’m not sure they’re comparable anyway. Maybe Alaska and Hawaii.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

Every blue state gets back less than they pay in.

not sure how that works. CA and NY have more people for example, so that defense budget that keeps them safe and those nukes would have to proportionally be spread out more to cover them. much bigger allocation that the tiny population of wyoming and idaho.

 

[French Rage]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 6.0: Nope, it only found woven strands

not sure how that works. CA and NY have more people for example, so that defense budget that keeps them safe and those nukes would have to proportionally be spread out more to cover them. much bigger allocation that the tiny population of wyoming and idaho.

Much more productive population.