Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

[5mn_Major]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

There have been dozens of studies published that communities get something like half their money back between stadium builds. You NEVER recoup that money. It just gets passed on to the team owner.

Correct. Stadiums are boondoggles - especially when funded by the state rather than the city in which it's located.

Even worse for cities which have a smaller population to spread the corporate theft over.

The supposed trickle down from teams is pennies on the dollar invested. They are vanity projects for wealthy boobs -- they and their stadia should be 100% privately financed.

Huh, well, in one out of one stadium...that's not true.

The Metrodome was originally built for $55 million, with $33 million in public dollars raised
primarily through local hospitality taxes in Minneapolis.

From 1982‐2010, the Metrodome generated nearly $340 million in tax revenue, of which:
‐Over $320 million went to the State of Minnesota; $15 million went to local government.
‐The Vikings were responsible for $186 million of the nearly $340 million in taxes generated during
that time

Complete with fact check...

https://blogs.mprnews.org/capitol-view/2012/05/poligraph_dfl_l/

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

This is the most hilarious part of the tax cut.

Major companies including Cisco Systems Inc., Pfizer Inc. and Coca-Cola Co. say they’ll turn over most gains from proposed corporate tax cuts to their shareholders, undercutting President Donald Trump’s promise that his plan will create jobs and boost wages for the middle class…. Instead of hiring more workers or raising their pay, many companies say they’ll first increase dividends or buy back their own shares. […]

John Bogle, founder of Vanguard Group, said Tuesday that the Republican tax plan is a “moral abomination” in part because companies will hand over the proceeds to shareholders.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ses-undercut-by-ceo-plans-to-reward-investors

You'd figure CEO's would lie for their money. Or, is the donor list smaller than we think?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Huh, well, in one out of one stadium...that's not true.

The Metrodome was originally built for $55 million, with $33 million in public dollars raised
primarily through local hospitality taxes in Minneapolis.

From 1982‐2010, the Metrodome generated nearly $340 million in tax revenue, of which:
‐Over $320 million went to the State of Minnesota; $15 million went to local government.
‐The Vikings were responsible for $186 million of the nearly $340 million in taxes generated during
that time

Complete with fact check...

https://blogs.mprnews.org/capitol-view/2012/05/poligraph_dfl_l/

You left out 3 key words from that paragraph:

But that tax revenue study is a few years old. More recently, the Vikings say the Metrodome has generated nearly $360 million in tax revenue, with more than $340 million of that going to the state’s general fund.

Then you can go and find the sources for their article:
--RSM McGladrey, Metropolitan Sports Facility Commission
--The Minnesota Vikings
--The Minnesota Vikings
--Email exchange, John Stiles, spokesman, Mayor R.T. Rybak
--Email exchange, Ryan Brown, spokesman, Minnesota Department of Revenue

Hardly unbiased sources. I mean they couldn't have picked a more biased source of information. One is the MSC whose responsibility it is to run the metro sports arenas. Two are the Minnesota Vikings themselves. One is a politician who didn't want to be the one to lose the Vikings. The other is the Minnesota Department of Revenue and what portion of that article is sourced from the DoR isn't even listed.

If you take a look at any unbiased source you'd find a galaxy of evidence supporting the exact opposite conclusion:
https://news.stanford.edu/2015/07/30/stadium-economics-noll-073015/
https://college.holycross.edu/RePEc/spe/CoatesHumphreys_LitReview.pdf
https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/Coates-Sports-Franchises.pdf
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/(SICI)1520-6688(199923)18:4<601::AID-PAM4>3.0.CO;2-A/full

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Huh, well, in one out of one stadium...that's not true.

The Metrodome was originally built for $55 million, with $33 million in public dollars raised
primarily through local hospitality taxes in Minneapolis.

From 1982‐2010, the Metrodome generated nearly $340 million in tax revenue, of which:
‐Over $320 million went to the State of Minnesota; $15 million went to local government.
‐The Vikings were responsible for $186 million of the nearly $340 million in taxes generated during
that time

Complete with fact check...

https://blogs.mprnews.org/capitol-view/2012/05/poligraph_dfl_l/

This seems very dubious.

Edit: and dx provides the evidence. I'm afraid you have been suckered.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

John Bogle, founder of Vanguard Group, said Tuesday that the Republican tax plan is a “moral abomination” in part because companies will hand over the proceeds to shareholders.

Bogle is one of the big reasons I put everything outside my 401(k) into Vanguard accounts.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

LOL! How in the ******* can MPR call that "fact checking"!?

Also thank you DX for pointing that out, I was skeptical for a number of reasons outside of the numbers he posted (even if you took those for granted there are other concerns) but yeah there's zero reason to trust them.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Huh, well, in one out of one stadium...that's not true.

The Metrodome was originally built for $55 million, with $33 million in public dollars raised
primarily through local hospitality taxes in Minneapolis.

From 1982‐2010, the Metrodome generated nearly $340 million in tax revenue, of which:
‐Over $320 million went to the State of Minnesota; $15 million went to local government.
‐The Vikings were responsible for $186 million of the nearly $340 million in taxes generated during
that time

Complete with fact check...

https://blogs.mprnews.org/capitol-view/2012/05/poligraph_dfl_l/

How many years will it take US Bank Stadium to generate the tax revenue to repay the State of MN and the City of Minneapolis for their contributions into the stadium?

Star Tribune:

The state’s share of the project is $348 million — or about $616 million, including interest over three decades. Minneapolis is covering $150 million over the same period, plus about $7.5 million a year for operations and maintenance — or about $631 million accounting for interest and inflation.

The Humptydome was replaced after 28 years. How long will US Bank Stadium last? Do you really expect the various governments to recoup those expenses?

How much of an ROI would the state and city get if they were to instead invest that money into schools, infrastructure, and improved public services? The money spent on the team could've gone elsewhere - opportunity costs gone. How many people are directly employed by US Bank Stadium and the Vikings? What if we were to instead give the money to a corporation that permanently (as permanent as can be...) employed a large workforce with new facilities that weren't paid to a billionaire owner, a few millionaire employees, and a few more earning six figures?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

How many years will it take US Bank Stadium to generate the tax revenue to repay the State of MN and the City of Minneapolis for their contributions into the stadium?

Star Tribune:


The Humptydome was replaced after 28 years. How long will US Bank Stadium last? Do you really expect the various governments to recoup those expenses?

How much of an ROI would the state and city get if they were to instead invest that money into schools, infrastructure, and improved public services? The money spent on the team could've gone elsewhere - opportunity costs gone. How many people are directly employed by US Bank Stadium and the Vikings? What if we were to instead give the money to a corporation that permanently (as permanent as can be...) employed a large workforce with new facilities that weren't paid to a billionaire owner, a few millionaire employees, and a few more earning six figures?

Exactly. EXACTLY. I was so opposed to public money being spent on the stadium. Your last paragraph basically sums up my feelings on it. The opportunity costs... God, could you imagine what a billion dollars could have done for state highways, schools, and public transportation?! Especially when the feds provide so much of the funding for these kinds of improvements.

All so Zigmunt could get his ****ing palace.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

How many years will it take US Bank Stadium to generate the tax revenue to repay the State of MN and the City of Minneapolis for their contributions into the stadium?

Star Tribune:


The Humptydome was replaced after 28 years. How long will US Bank Stadium last? Do you really expect the various governments to recoup those expenses?

How much of an ROI would the state and city get if they were to instead invest that money into schools, infrastructure, and improved public services? The money spent on the team could've gone elsewhere - opportunity costs gone. How many people are directly employed by US Bank Stadium and the Vikings? What if we were to instead give the money to a corporation that permanently (as permanent as can be...) employed a large workforce with new facilities that weren't paid to a billionaire owner, a few millionaire employees, and a few more earning six figures?

Problem is that money probably wouldn't have been spent on any of the things you think it might have. Nobody believes in the government investing money anymore. See the Fed Tax Cut that's proposed, Kansas, and Wisconsin. If Government was considered a credible part of the economic machine then you're 100% correct. But, 20 years of bad press and lies has destroyed that.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

You left out 3 key words from that paragraph:

This seems very dubious.

Edit: and dx provides the evidence. I'm afraid you have been suckered.

Appreciate your googling skills, but the independent Metrodome study came from RSM, a top five US financials firm - where does your Metrodome study come from?

Oh and the state of Minnesota disagrees with you too. And the state should know. It has repeatedly said the Vikings pay $20 million annually in tax (Morrie Lanning, R-Moorhead, who said Minnesota would lose at least $20 million in annual tax revenue without the Vikings; bizjournals.com). How many years of $20 million in tax does it take to pay back $33 million? I'm assuming less than 30 years.

The RSM study is pretty simple...look it up. The metrodome was a financial steal.

LOL! How in the ******* can MPR call that "fact checking"!?

Also thank you DX for pointing that out, I was skeptical for a number of reasons outside of the numbers he posted (even if you took those for granted there are other concerns) but yeah there's zero reason to trust them.

Because the state knows they're true? Note: Clown, dx and Kepler won't show any numbers on the metrodome, because there aren't any other numbers.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Problem is that money probably wouldn't have been spent on any of the things you think it might have. Nobody believes in the government investing money anymore. See the Fed Tax Cut that's proposed, Kansas, and Wisconsin. If Government was considered a credible part of the economic machine then you're 100% correct. But, 20 years of bad press and lies has destroyed that.

Every remaining original bridge that crosses I-35W from downtown Mpls to Burnsville is being replaced over the next five years. My daily commute is pure **** right now. How many other bridge projects like that do you think could be financed with the money that went to Wilfs instead?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

So St. Clown is shifting the debate? I'm now to believe that stadiums can be awesome deals paying off over 10x?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

So St. Clown is shifting the debate? I'm now to believe that stadiums can be awesome deals paying off over 10x?

You're very confused in what you're reading if you think that's what I'm saying.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

You're very confused in what you're reading if you think that's what I'm saying.

What are you saying about the metrodome payoff?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Appreciate your googling skills, but the independent Metrodome study came from RSM, a top five US financials firm - where does your Metrodome study come from?

Oh and the state of Minnesota disagrees with you too. And the state should know. It has repeatedly said the Vikings pay $20 million annually in tax (Morrie Lanning, R-Moorhead, who said Minnesota would lose at least $20 million in annual tax revenue without the Vikings; bizjournals.com). How many years of $20 million in tax does it take to pay back $33 million? I'm assuming less than 30 years.

The RSM study is pretty simple...look it up. The metrodome was a financial steal.



Because the state knows they're true? Dx is blowing smoke. Note: Clown, dx and Kepler won't show any numbers on the metrodome, because there aren't any other numbers.

Are you ****ing kidding me? RSM was commissioned to put together a study that made the stadium look good. They were paid by the Vikings and the Metro Sports Council.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Are you ****ing kidding me? RSM was commissioned to put together a study that made the stadium look good. They were paid by the Vikings and the Metro Sports Council.

Explain $33 million metrodome public funds costs and $20 million annual tax revenues paid by the Vikings in 2010.

Edit: And why does the state of Minnesota believe the RSM study?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

What are you saying about the metrodome payoff?

The Metrodome payoff is a non-sequitur to the US Bank Stadium. The Metrodome was built on the cheap, coming in under budget at that. We built the Vikings a palace, that came in over budget, costing $1.1billion in initial building, not including interest payments on the loans. We're not going to recoup the public money spent on that stadium. It just won't happen. To think otherwise is to walk through the fields with your rose colored glasses not just on your face but glued to it.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Um... guys? The f-ck is going on with Bitcoin?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Um... guys? The f-ck is going on with Bitcoin?

If I had any money in bitcoin, I'd cash out right this moment. It only takes one court ruling against it to make its value plummet like Wile E. Coyote off the cliff.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Business, Economics & Tax Policy 5.0: Can a blind nut find a squirrel?

Explain $33 million metrodome public funds costs and $20 million annual tax revenues paid by the Vikings in 2010.

Edit: And why does the state of Minnesota believe the RSM study?

The State of MN didn't believe the RSM study. The body politic used it to sell the public on keeping the team because they're trying to use our money to buy our votes for re-election.