Business, Economics, and Taxes: Eat Cereal for Dinner

[unofan]

IIRC, I saw a piece sometime around Fall 2022 that indicated the percentage of the workforce still working from home full-time was less than 15%, so fully remote roles were already drying up leading into the 2023 layoffs. I do think quite a few folks, particularly in tech, have at least been able to work out hybrid arrangements where they only go into the office 2-3 days a week.

Even if I could work from home full time, I wouldn't. 1-2 days per week is the sweet spot for me. Beyond that and it gets tough, as work and home life bleed together too much. I like the separation.

 

[French Rage]

We're pretty much all remote for my company in my area. Even when things reopened in mid-2021, I seemed to be the only person (other than the facilities/provisioning people who were there through the lockdown anyways) who actually came back in in an office that usually held around 150 people. And even I only did it for a few months. Then they moved the office to downtown SJ but it's only a few conferences rooms and several desks in a common area; they only want it used for larger important meetings, but for day to day stuff everything is remote. It's moot for me, my group is spread throughout the world so even if I went in I wouldn't actually be interacting with anyone there.

 

[Swansong]

Even if I could work from home full time, I wouldn't. 1-2 days per week is the sweet spot for me. Beyond that and it gets tough, as work and home life bleed together too much. I like the separation.

Now that my office (and hospital system) are very close, I've gone from "f off, don't ask me to come into the office" to "I prefer to work from home but it's no big deal if I need to go in".

The ol lady and I both work from home full time, but have separate offices that are only offices. So when I turn off at the end of the day, I don't come back in here. It's nice.


When I lived in my old condo, my office was the living room and I hated it.

 

[St. Clown]

IIRC, I saw a piece sometime around Fall 2022 that indicated the percentage of the workforce still working from home full-time was less than 15%, so fully remote roles were already drying up leading into the 2023 layoffs. I do think quite a few folks, particularly in tech, have at least been able to work out hybrid arrangements where they only go into the office 2-3 days a week.

I have the 2 WFH and 3 in-office days. My days in the office are only 4 hours, the remaining hours are also WFH, thanks to my manager on that last piont.

 

[dxmnkd316]

We had about 300 people in the office in my division at HQ. Now it's just about a dozen. Everyone else works remote.

 

[mookie1995]

Why are companies so keen on supporting commercial real estate??

shareholders should be po’ed and demand instead that rent should be paid as dividends or buy backs

 

[rufus]

It's not so much that. it's just if you're at home, how can the boss be sure you're actually working? Instead of just dicking around and watching pron on the internet.

I mean, if you were in the office, you'd just be posting on USCHO all day instead of working.

 

[Handyman]

Every study I have seen has shown people work better at home (if they have a dedicated office or work area away) and are way more efficient. Less distractions and they get done faster to enjoy their day instead of stretching out the work because you are stuck at the office all day anyways.

 

[Kepler]

Every study I have seen has shown people work better at home (if they have a dedicated office or work area away) and are way more efficient. Less distractions and they get done faster to enjoy their day instead of stretching out the work because you are stuck at the office all day anyways.

Remote work is an existential threat to mid-level management.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Remote work is an existential threat to mid-level management.

And large portfolios of commercial real estate.

 

[French Rage]

It's not so much that. it's just if you're at home, how can the boss be sure you're actually working? Instead of just dicking around and watching pron on the internet.

I mean, if you were in the office, you'd just be posting on USCHO all day instead of working.

Our work laptops have ZScaler and about 8 million other apps that JAMF manages, so I assume if they really wanted to monitor our keystrokes they could. That, and scheduled updates with your manager, and whether things get done before deadlines, should help managers figure it out. I guess they actually need to manage now.

 

[Kepler]

And large portfolios of commercial real estate.

And all the fast food chains which serve people who are forced into work rather than having everything they need including meals at home.

Not to mention that if a two-adult household has both working from home they don't need two cars.

And all that gas saved and emissions saved.

Obviously, it's TEH SOCIALISM!!1

 

[French Rage]

And all the fast food chains which serve people who are forced into work rather than having everything they need including meals at home.

Not to mention that if a two-adult household has both working from home they don't need two cars.

And all that gas saved and emissions saved.

Obviously, it's TEH SOCIALISM!!1

Don't get me wrong, the quickness of the change leaves a lot of people holding a lot of bags and I can see them not being thrilled by it. And I don't mean the banks or the like, but regular small business people whose livelihood depended on everyone coming into an office complex 5 or more days a week. But this was going to happen anyways, as the ability to telecommute got better and better; even before the pandemic more and more people in my office were developing remotely and using Zoom for some meetings; the efficiencies and conveniences of doing so for jobs that allow it are obvious; it just took technology making it more seamless and for it to be more acceptable. All the pandemic did was jump the transition several steps forward in a limited amount of time. It didn't change where things were going; it just got them there more quickly. It will cause a lot of churn in the meantime, yes, but it's happening for reasons that awhile from now will be good reasons. And the cities will go on, in the same way they went on after factories left all of the downtowns. They won't look exactly the same as they have to us for the last 40-50 years, but then those iterations looked different than the 40-50 years for then, and so on.

 

[Kepler]

Don't get me wrong, the quickness of the change leaves a lot of people holding a lot of bags and I can see them not being thrilled by it. And I don't mean the banks or the like, but regular small business people whose livelihood depended on everyone coming into an office complex 5 or more days a week. But this was going to happen anyways, as the ability to telecommute got better and better; even before the pandemic more and more people in my office were developing remotely and using Zoom for some meetings; the efficiencies and conveniences of doing so for jobs that allow it are obvious; it just took technology making it more seamless and for it to be more acceptable. All the pandemic did was jump the transition several steps forward in a limited amount of time. It didn't change where things were going; it just got them there more quickly. It will cause a lot of churn in the meantime, yes, but it's happening for reasons that awhile from now will be good reasons. And the cities will go on, in the same way they went on after factories left all of the downtowns. They won't look exactly the same as they have to us for the last 40-50 years, but then those iterations looked different than the 40-50 years for then, and so on.

I think remote work is a third tier change in terms of dislocation, like the internet or, in future, UBI. They move money around dramatically. Second tier included writing, religion, democracy, gunpowder, flight, women's liberation, birth control, automation, and will include extinction of fossil fuels. They move society around dramatically. First tier were fire, agriculture, industrialization, nuclear weapons, and now climate change. They change the face of the f-cking planet.

 

[Handyman]

American workers woke up in the Pandemic to what the rest of the civilized world anyway knew...quality of life matters more than your job does. Capitalism convinced us working 40+ hour work weeks at jobs we hated was worth the stress because $$$$. Tradition kept it alive long past its usefulness and corporations lived high on the hog for decades because of it. Meanwhile in Europe people had better jobs, better work/life balance and better perks.

Workers have finally realized they truly have the power (hence why unions are crushing) and it's time to weild it.

 

[Kepler]

American workers woke up in the Pandemic to what the rest of the civilized world anyway knew...quality of life matters more than your job does. Capitalism convinced us working 40+ hour work weeks at jobs we hated was worth the stress because $$$$. Tradition kept it alive long past its usefulness and corporations lived high on the hog for decades because of it. Meanwhile in Europe people had better jobs, better work/life balance and better perks.

Workers have finally realized they truly have the power (hence why unions are crushing) and it's time to weild it.

Consumers have the power. But consumers are also workers.

In all honesty, if consumers were fully unionized, we could forget about the capitalism vs socialism debate. The system would be hybrid (as it is now and always has been) but tailored to human needs, not the owner class' profit.

If I don't buy your sh-t, for whatever reason I decide, then your means of production is valueless.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Our work laptops have ZScaler and about 8 million other apps that JAMF manages, so I assume if they really wanted to monitor our keystrokes they could. That, and scheduled updates with your manager, and whether things get done before deadlines, should help managers figure it out. I guess they actually need to manage now.

I fuckin hate zscaler. Not for what it does but because it's so flakey.

anyways. Between that and the half dozen other middle-managementware they install on our computers, they know.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Don't get me wrong, the quickness of the change leaves a lot of people holding a lot of bags and I can see them not being thrilled by it. And I don't mean the banks or the like, but regular small business people whose livelihood depended on everyone coming into an office complex 5 or more days a week. But this was going to happen anyways, as the ability to telecommute got better and better; even before the pandemic more and more people in my office were developing remotely and using Zoom for some meetings; the efficiencies and conveniences of doing so for jobs that allow it are obvious; it just took technology making it more seamless and for it to be more acceptable. All the pandemic did was jump the transition several steps forward in a limited amount of time. It didn't change where things were going; it just got them there more quickly. It will cause a lot of churn in the meantime, yes, but it's happening for reasons that awhile from now will be good reasons. And the cities will go on, in the same way they went on after factories left all of the downtowns. They won't look exactly the same as they have to us for the last 40-50 years, but then those iterations looked different than the 40-50 years for then, and so on.

100% correct.

 

[dxmnkd316]

American workers woke up in the Pandemic to what the rest of the civilized world anyway knew...quality of life matters more than your job does. Capitalism convinced us working 40+ hour work weeks at jobs we hated was worth the stress because $$$$. Tradition kept it alive long past its usefulness and corporations lived high on the hog for decades because of it. Meanwhile in Europe people had better jobs, better work/life balance and better perks.

Workers have finally realized they truly have the power (hence why unions are crushing) and it's time to weild it.

That said, have you ever looked at GDP per capita? We're like nearly double that of Germany and the UK. So while I agree in principle with what you're saying, we would probably have a change in terms of lifestyle should we change too drastically, too quickly.

but our goal should be to match the benefits and W/L balance of Europe.

edit: which isn't to say GDP/C is a perfect metric. But it's still useful in this context.

 

[Handyman]

I have...and have you ever seen how much vacation time they get or what the quality of life is? Also you don't need to earn as much money if half the things you need are paid for by the government. I remember when DGF lived in England her boyfriend would go mountain biking for weeks on end...in this country stuff like that is verboten.

GDP is a fine metric for discussing the health of an economy...but it means bupkis when discussing standard of life and quality of life unless you are comparing say, Minnesota to Mississippi.

Here is a thought experiment...and it is legit a conversation my SO and I have weekly. She has worked in her district for 18 years. She has cache, a good salary (not great..would be making way more because of my schooling) and tenure but the job is trash and already once drove her to the point of exhaustion. It's likely to get worse. The benefits also suck.

Meanwhile my job pays me a decent amount less (8k a year) and is corporate not union so earnings are mostly capped with no tenure track. (Charter school) Better benefits by far and they make sure to not overload us with work. In fact if they think you are working too much they will tell you to take a half day off that is paid and will not count against your PTO. They send us gifts (i got $100 headphones) as thank yous, equipment for our home offices like a laptop and extra monitor and don't monitor us as long as we are hitting our teaching goals.

Which job would you rather have? I could easily leave mine and makanquite a bit more because I have a Masters + 30 but why be miserable just so I can have a little extra cash? Plus either my freedom I kept my second job anyways and traveled way more than I could have. She is waffling joining me and I said she should. Her quality of life would improve ten fold.