Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

[Spartanforlife4]

Robinhood just delisted all the squeeze stocks. GameStop, AMC, Nokia, and a couple others.

 

[Drew S.]

I wonder who is actually behind all this stuff? The timing is incredibly interesting to say the least. My money is on this is some entity just trying to spin people up.

 

[BassAle]

I wonder who is actually behind all this stuff? The timing is incredibly interesting to say the least. My money is on this is some entity just trying to spin people up.

I've been following WSB for a while, and I've been a subscriber on and off (but mostly lurker) for a couple years.

I think it's totally organic. WSB has evolved quite a bit over the time I've been following. First it was just some people posting their YOLOs (you only live once). Some would roll one YOLO into another and turn a few thousand dollars into enough to buy a house. There were plenty more that blew through all their YOLO money (probably way more, when you figure a lot of them probably didn't post). Then there was the "meme stock" era. Things got crazy during the Covid-19 crash -- people were rolling one put options play into another and getting rich in a few weeks. What's happening now is crazy, but I don't think anyone is behind it (although I don't really doubt there are some bots posting in WSB trying to influence the group and turn them onto certain stocks). GameStop really started with one guy noticing the short positions and making the case for betting against (and screwing) the shorters. That guy has turned his $50K gamble into something like $45M now (he's cashed out some options and shares for $14M total, but the rest is still riding I think)

These meme stocks always end with a bunch of late comers holding the bag.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Robinhood just delisted all the squeeze stocks. GameStop, AMC, Nokia, and a couple others.

the plutes always win

I was wondering why GME dropped to the mid 200s

 

[dxmnkd316]

This is a fucking rollercoaster overnight.

Went from 220 to like 510 and back to 260 and now it’s at 400 in regular trading.

 

[LynahFan]

Define average. Weighted or raw?

because you can find the average by simple google search.

Yes, the average is readily available - my bet also rests on the standard deviation, so I need all the individual values to compute that.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Yes, the average is readily available - my bet also rests on the standard deviation, so I need all the individual values to compute that.

I vaguely recall you mentioning this bet before.

I was going to do the price to book this weekend but maybe I’ll see if I can get a spreadsheet to pull both. It won’t be pretty.

 

[LynahFan]

I vaguely recall you mentioning this bet before.

I was going to do the price to book this weekend but maybe I’ll see if I can get a spreadsheet to pull both. It won’t be pretty.

No rush. TSLA P/E is hanging around 1600, so I haven't gotten serious about even trying to do the calculation yet....

 

[St. Clown]

the plutes always win

I was wondering why GME dropped to the mid 200s

Robinhood de-listing the stocks makes a lot of sense. This keeps the rubes from losing their shirts while the people starting the rallies make out huge. Sure, the big-money guys running the shorts against the stocks are protected, but they're also theoretically saving scores of hundreds or thousands of people who don't understand the lifecycle of these sorts of events.

 

[St. Clown]

No rush. TSLA P/E is hanging around 1600, so I haven't gotten serious about even trying to do the calculation yet....

Try calculating the PE ratio for Amazon back in the late 90s and early 00s! It'll look like some twisted soul's version of a rollercoaster because some of those daily changes would have a rise/run ratio looking like a sheared cliff. And all of the earnings reports for AMZN were losses, so you'd have to work in ABS() to avoid motion sickness.

 

[Kepler]

Robinhood de-listing the stocks makes a lot of sense. This keeps the rubes from losing their shirts while the people starting the rallies make out huge. Sure, the big-money guys running the shorts against the stocks are protected, but they're also theoretically saving scores of hundreds or thousands of people who don't understand the lifecycle of these sorts of events.

Mark Cuban thinks RH delisted because the shorters no longer had the ability to cover and brought the hurt.

What exactly constitutes "market manipulation"? When the wrong people win?

 

[Handyman]

I've been following WSB for a while, and I've been a subscriber on and off (but mostly lurker) for a couple years.

I think it's totally organic. WSB has evolved quite a bit over the time I've been following. First it was just some people posting their YOLOs (you only live once). Some would roll one YOLO into another and turn a few thousand dollars into enough to buy a house. There were plenty more that blew through all their YOLO money (probably way more, when you figure a lot of them probably didn't post). Then there was the "meme stock" era. Things got crazy during the Covid-19 crash -- people were rolling one put options play into another and getting rich in a few weeks. What's happening now is crazy, but I don't think anyone is behind it (although I don't really doubt there are some bots posting in WSB trying to influence the group and turn them onto certain stocks). GameStop really started with one guy noticing the short positions and making the case for betting against (and screwing) the shorters. That guy has turned his $50K gamble into something like $45M now (he's cashed out some options and shares for $14M total, but the rest is still riding I think)

These meme stocks always end with a bunch of late comers holding the bag.

Soooooo...not a bunch of 19 year olds spending their stimulus money? No way! ;^)

To do this stuff right it takes money, way more than the average stoner in his mothers basement will have. The game they are playing is high level gambling, like the guys who make hundreds/thousands of bet in Vegas every day. (there is a great doc about them on Showtime that is very enlightening) Difference is though these guys arent as insular as far as I can tell (it is tough to say they would be since they broadcast it on SM) they need other people to be part of the game or it won't work. Sports gambling you don't want others to know because the more people make the bet the more it screws up the odds. (unless you are trying to fudge the odds of course)

What little I have read about the "meme stock" stuff just gave me Madoff vibes.

 

[SJHovey]

Soooooo...not a bunch of 19 year olds spending their stimulus money? No way! ;^)

To do this stuff right it takes money, way more than the average stoner in his mothers basement will have. The game they are playing is high level gambling, like the guys who make hundreds/thousands of bet in Vegas every day. (there is a great doc about them on Showtime that is very enlightening) Difference is though these guys arent as insular as far as I can tell (it is tough to say they would be since they broadcast it on SM) they need other people to be part of the game or it won't work. Sports gambling you don't want others to know because the more people make the bet the more it screws up the odds. (unless you are trying to fudge the odds of course)

What little I have read about the "meme stock" stuff just gave me Madoff vibes.

But of the tens of thousands, or maybe million plus on WSB, that's going to be like five guys. And those five don't have the capital to make the shift they want to make. But, if they can get thousands or millions of people to throw in a few hundred each, it becomes real money.

It's sort of like if we tried to do it here in Cafe. There would be maybe two people who would really know what they are doing, and the rest of us would be like, "hey that sounds like a hoot, count me in."

 

[Handyman]

I would bet your ratio (even as hyperbole) is way off. It isnt like Kepler is on here saying "Hey guys lets all bet $50 on Cornell to win the Title!" this has a significant investment.

Plus I am willing to bet that WSB is not filled with a bunch of randos...sure a lot will be casuals but I bet even they do enough research to at least understand the game they are playing.

I guess Bassale would be able to tell us better the makeup of WSB since none of us seem to want to go there and find out ;^)

 

[Drew S.]

Soooooo...not a bunch of 19 year olds spending their stimulus money? No way! ;^)

To do this stuff right it takes money, way more than the average stoner in his mothers basement will have. The game they are playing is high level gambling, like the guys who make hundreds/thousands of bet in Vegas every day. (there is a great doc about them on Showtime that is very enlightening) Difference is though these guys arent as insular as far as I can tell (it is tough to say they would be since they broadcast it on SM) they need other people to be part of the game or it won't work. Sports gambling you don't want others to know because the more people make the bet the more it screws up the odds. (unless you are trying to fudge the odds of course)

What little I have read about the "meme stock" stuff just gave me Madoff vibes.

I think this is a classic case of there being an organic element to it and then all kinds of funny business going on behind the scenes. And to be honest there are probably competing groups with different agendas. Maybe I’ve missed out on my chance to become a billionaire but feel good about my choice to stay on the sidelines.

I think the stuff with the phone brokerages will be another thing to rile people up and cause consternation.

 

[BassAle]

Robinhood de-listing the stocks makes a lot of sense. This keeps the rubes from losing their shirts while the people starting the rallies make out huge. Sure, the big-money guys running the shorts against the stocks are protected, but they're also theoretically saving scores of hundreds or thousands of people who don't understand the lifecycle of these sorts of events.

Robinhood delisting also tanks the prices since millions of people can still sell but not buy

Rumor is that Citadel (the same Citadel that bailed out Marvin Capital) fills orders made on the Robinhood platform and they're the reason it's delisted. If so, that seems like a pretty big conflict of interest.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Mark Cuban thinks RH delisted because the shorters no longer had the ability to cover and brought the hurt.

What exactly constitutes "market manipulation"? When the wrong people win?

Pretty much. The difference is now people are just switching to different apps and RH is gonna deal with a ton of a hate from the people they want using the app.

 

[aparch]

Mark Cuban thinks RH delisted because the shorters no longer had the ability to cover and brought the hurt.

What exactly constitutes "market manipulation"? When the wrong people win?

He was downright giddy on CNBC this AM. Happy to see the same people who did this for a career finally got a taste of their own medicine.

 

[BassAle]

Plus I am willing to bet that WSB is not filled with a bunch of randos...sure a lot will be casuals but I bet even they do enough research to at least understand the game they are playing.

It's got people with multi million dollar accounts and people with 1000 dollar accounts. People doing their research, and trying to find the next things, and many more people just following along and blindly dumping their money in whatever is popular on wsb. Some people are getting rich, and plenty are losing.

 

[Kepler]

Robinhood delisting also tanks the prices since millions of people can still sell but not buy

Rumor is that Citadel (the same Citadel that bailed out Marvin Capital) fills orders made on the Robinhood platform and they're the reason it's delisted. If so, that seems like a pretty big conflict of interest.

PLEASE don't involve in Point72.

Please, please, please, please, please.

Jesus, the Mets really do destroy everything we touch.