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Business, Economics, and Taxes: Capitalism. Yay? >=(

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That isnt the point (McConnell already said no) the point is the friggin WH offered more relief than that and they rejected it for not being enough. Now they are asking for way less that helps way less people and plan to move forward with that. They have zero idea how to negotiate it is always from a position of weakness with them because they are in fact weak.

A deal like this is fine if there is more coming...but there isnt barring winning the Senate back. So basically business gets a bunch of money and the unemployed get help (one of the few good parts of the bill) but every other American can just pound sand. The majority get screwed but Shake Shack can get more PPP. All for a headline, one that won't even benefit them much since all the majority of Americans get no relief at all.

Any deal without Stimulus payments to everyone should be DOA.
 
Handyman said:
That isnt the point (McConnell already said no) the point is the friggin WH offered more relief than that and they rejected it for not being enough. Now they are asking for way less that helps way less people and plan to move forward with that. They have zero idea how to negotiate it is always from a position of weakness with them because they are in fact weak.

A deal like this is fine if there is more coming...but there isnt barring winning the Senate back. So basically business gets a bunch of money and the unemployed get help (one of the few good parts of the bill) but every other American can just pound sand. The majority get screwed but Shake Shack can get more PPP. All for a headline, one that won't even benefit them much since all the majority of Americans get no relief at all.

Any deal without Stimulus payments to everyone should be DOA.
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I agree. They're desperate right now. They should have taken the deal before, they didn't, but it didn't come from Mitch. They always are in a position of weakness because the other side runs on no compromise ever.
 
As someone who teaches negotiation I can tell you if the other side refuses to negotiate you don't just keep making your offer worse in the hopes they change their mind. You turn up the heat publicly. By endorsing this deal you are basically saying Mitch is right that larger Stimulus isnt needed and he will definitely not move.

For as good as Nancy is at somethings...this is the crap she is never good at. If the Dems were doing what Mitch is doing the GOP would be on TV every hour throwing gasoline on them all and lighting matches. The Dems just sit back and assume the GOP will do the right thing. They are too old to govern in the current climate.
 
Handyman said:
As someone who teaches negotiation I can tell you if the other side refuses to negotiate you don't just keep making your offer worse in the hopes they change their mind. You turn up the heat publicly. By endorsing this deal you are basically saying Mitch is right that larger Stimulus isnt needed and he will definitely not move.

For as good as Nancy is at somethings...this is the crap she is never good at. If the Dems were doing what Mitch is doing the GOP would be on TV every hour throwing gasoline on them all and lighting matches. The Dems just sit back and assume the GOP will do the right thing. They are too old to govern in the current climate.
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The public will never listen to them because half the public believes the Republicans every time they say it's the Democrats that won't compromise or negotiate.
 
aparch said:
Nah. This is good for them. They get to crow how bi-partisan this bill is while ramming it down McConnell's throat.
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Sorry but that dog wont hunt. No one is buying it because they turned down a deal from the President that offered twice as much. (the Mnuchin deal was $1.8 trillion but sucked just as bad for different reasons) They stood their ground saying the people needed checks, unemployment needed beefing up and there needed to be strings on the money given to business. They got a lot of press over that and crowed about it. Now they are offering a deal that is even worse than that one and throwing support behind it. No checks, the same basic PPP but unemployment money. They held out for 3 things and got 1...

They are that mid range player that holds out for the big contract, doesn't get the offer he wants, tests free agency and gets no good offers so then signs a worse deal and pretends he did it because he loves the team so much. Everyone knows the truth they are just too polite to say it out loud.

Mitch doesn't care if this is bipartisan deal...they just flinched and did so HARD. All that screaming they did about how $1.8 trillion is too little and without even putting up much of a fight they threw away half of it and screwed over the majority of Americans. They worry about the optics and don't even understand how the optics truly work. The only positives they will get will be from the Wall Street types...which basically makes them Trump.

If the Dems dont win the runoff Mitch is going to win this whole fight and never even have to defend himself over it.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
The public will never listen to them because half the public believes the Republicans every time they say it's the Democrats that won't compromise or negotiate.
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Half the public believes whatever they want. Taking this deal would convince the other half you are incompetent.

The Dems worry too much about it anyways. Then, when the fit hits the shan they sell them all out. They are weak willed. They care too much about making it look like they are doing whats right instead of just actually doing what is right.

Watching them lose the way they do is like watching a sitcom...
 
The optics don't matter in a world where nobody in the electorate changes their mind.

This has been coming for a long time (Newt, Cheney, Dump) but politics is now purely about power. There is no longer anything like norms or soft power to get a mass of voters on your side: they are set in concrete. And there is no longer anything like collegiality or institutional history to get Members to compromise: many Members, at least on the Right, are just as true believer as their constituents, and the other ones simply can't budge or they will be obliterated in the primaries.

This is the result of having non-competitive districts. As long as we have a 50/50 country composed of 50 left-center districts and 50 far right districts, with no center, nothing will change.

We need a SCOTUS decision that non-competitive districts deny people their right to a democratic government. We need a mechanism for refashioning districts to be as flippable as possible. That will reverse all the systemic pressures and drive Members back to the center.
 
Handyman said:
As someone who teaches negotiation I can tell you if the other side refuses to negotiate you don't just keep making your offer worse in the hopes they change their mind. You turn up the heat publicly. By endorsing this deal you are basically saying Mitch is right that larger Stimulus isnt needed and he will definitely not move.

For as good as Nancy is at somethings...this is the crap she is never good at. If the Dems were doing what Mitch is doing the GOP would be on TV every hour throwing gasoline on them all and lighting matches. The Dems just sit back and assume the GOP will do the right thing. They are too old to govern in the current climate.
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Normally I might agree with you on your negotiation strategy, but in this case I don't. Your strategy is right if you are negotiating a final deal. In those instances you can't negotiate against yourself and continue to lower your position.

But that's not the case here. Get what you can get, then come back for more in a couple of weeks or months. It's not like this is some sort of final settlement or contract that's being hammered out.
 
Oh good. Thanks, Hovey - you just saved me a lot of time. If *you* like the deal, then I know it's bad for the country without having to go do any research at all.
 
LynahFan said:
Oh good. Thanks, Hovey - you just saved me a lot of time. If *you* like the deal, then I know it's bad for the country without having to go do any research at all.
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GIF-oh-you-laugh-laughing-GIF.gif
 
There's an easier test:

Axiom: If McConnell accepts it is horrible.

Corollary: Anything that passes is horrible.
 
Handyman said:
GIF-oh-you-laugh-laughing-GIF.gif
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Every time I see gifs of him I am equally (1) happy he was and (2) angry he didn't take care of himself (43).

c.f.

Belushi (33)
Lenny Bruce (40, though he may have been murdered by you know who)
Farley (33)
Hedberg (37)
Greg Giraldo (44, though it set up the greatest Rich Vos joke ever)
Patrice (41)
 
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Kepler said:
Every time I see gifs of him I am equally (1) happy he was and (2) angry he didn't take care of himself (43).

c.f.

Belushi (33)
Lenny Bruce (40, though he may have been murdered by you know who)
Farley (33)
Hedberg (37)
Greg Giraldo (44, though it set up the greatest Rich Vos joke ever)
Patrice (41)
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I saw Giraldo live...even coked to the Bejesus he was had us rolling. My buddy met him and loved him and openly wept when he died. That whole list is tragic...

And yeah SCTV was the best. Everyone knows the stars but guys like Joe Flaherty and Dave Thomas were the glue imho.

Even crazier think about this cast for Godspell when it was in Toronto:

Victor Garber
Eugene Levy
Andrea Martin
Dave Thomas
Martin Short
Musical Director Paul Schaffer
 
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