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Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

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Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

He’s def taking money for himself

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">There are going to be some serious lawsuits about this. <a href="https://t.co/5UCw9EAl1d">https://t.co/5UCw9EAl1d</a></p>— Heidi Li Feldman (@HeidiLiFeldman) <a href="https://twitter.com/HeidiLiFeldman/status/1243687151197396992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

Trump also demanded his signature be put on the checks for the $1,200


I really have no idea if that’s a joke or it’s real.
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

The Dems got played so badly...
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

United Airlines Warns Of Layoffs Despite Government Aid

I understand there was little way they could retain 100% of their staff when all flights are virtually empty. But then what exactly are these a-holes planning to stimulate?

American execs remain more optimistic per the same link.
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

Slap Shot said:
United Airlines Warns Of Layoffs Despite Government Aid

I understand there was little way they could retain 100% of their staff when all flights are virtually empty. But then what exactly are these a-holes planning to stimulate?

American execs remain more optimistic per the same link.
Click to expand...

sounds like another check on the way for mookie in july or august at the latest!! ;)
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

Slap Shot said:
United Airlines Warns Of Layoffs Despite Government Aid

I understand there was little way they could retain 100% of their staff when all flights are virtually empty. But then what exactly are these a-holes planning to stimulate?.
Click to expand...
.
<img src=https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GivingWigglyCaecilian-size_restricted.gif>
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

Since Michigan's unemployment website right now is overwhelmed, the State made it like last names A-L can apply on Mondays, etc.
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

Slap Shot said:
United Airlines Warns Of Layoffs Despite Government Aid

I understand there was little way they could retain 100% of their staff when all flights are virtually empty. But then what exactly are these a-holes planning to stimulate?

American execs remain more optimistic per the same link.
Click to expand...

Nothing. The money is to basically keep the lights on. It is so there is a business for the workers to go back to.

Of course they wouldnt have this issue if the airlines had actually saved the money they had instead of using it to buy back stock...but the GOP quit pretending to understand "Moral Hazard" a long time ago so they bail out the higher ups while the actual workers suffer.
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

Every dollar should come with a priority 1 special class of shares that supersedes all other debt should they go bankrupt.
 
Handyman said:
Nothing. The money is to basically keep the lights on. It is so there is a business for the workers to go back to.

Of course they wouldnt have this issue if the airlines had actually saved the money they had instead of using it to buy back stock...but the GOP quit pretending to understand "Moral Hazard" a long time ago so they bail out the higher ups while the actual workers suffer.
Click to expand...

How much do they need to keep the lights on. Most of their expense is payroll, and right now they aren't paying anyone. They're not paying for fuel, or maintenance, or supplies and equipment, they aren't flying anywhere.

If they can't cease operations for a few months, and not be ok, then that's a problem of poor management. If they need money to keep going, that's what banks are for. I hear large corporations get exceedingly favorable terms.

Maybe they could sell some stock to raise cash?
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

The government wont let them go under. If that becomes a serious worry they will force mergers or bail them out again. That is what they did with the banks in '08. They might let one fail to pretend to have a strong hand (let them be the Lehman Brothers of the Airline Industry) but that is about it. My guess is if things get bad you will see Delta and United buy up some of the other airlines.
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

rufus said:
How much do they need to keep the lights on. Most of their expense is payroll, and right now they aren't paying anyone. They're not paying for fuel, or maintenance, or supplies and equipment, they aren't flying anywhere.

If they can't cease operations for a few months, and not be ok, then that's a problem of poor management. If they need money to keep going, that's what banks are for. I hear large corporations get exceedingly favorable terms.

Maybe they could sell some stock to raise cash?
Click to expand...

Well the first question I dont know. It is why the bailout is stupid we are most likely throwing money at a problem that money actually wont solve. They will sit on it so when travel opens up they are showing to be in the black (or less red) to their investors which adds value to their stock. Literally helps no one. They most certainly wont use it to help out their workers...in fact I bet they have a wage freeze for year to "protect the bottom line" while executive compensation (especially through stock) will skyrocket. Its all a scam...

Now as for the selling stock...theoretically yes they could do that and it sounds like a smart idea, but if the company starts selling off its shares in the numbers it would need to get the money it could create a massive panic similar to a run on a bank. If Monday morning United or Delta started making available hundreds of thousands of shares the value would tank and put the company at risk again. Even if the Government buys the shares you could still see a seller panic and sell off trying to maximize their profit in fear of a tanking. Not a guarantee mind you, but in the here and now it is a very dangerous game to play. (which is why they should have been doing this for a month...a slow increase of shares available raises zero red flags)

Now personally, I would force them to sell or face bankruptcy but there is no way a GOP lead Treasury would ever do something like that. They would sooner nationalize the airlines for 4 years so they can then biotch and whine and blame the next President for it.
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

Handyman said:
Well the first question I dont know. It is why the bailout is stupid we are most likely throwing money at a problem that money actually wont solve. They will sit on it so when travel opens up they are showing to be in the black (or less red) to their investors which adds value to their stock. Literally helps no one. They most certainly wont use it to help out their workers...in fact I bet they have a wage freeze for year to "protect the bottom line" while executive compensation (especially through stock) will skyrocket. Its all a scam...

Now as for the selling stock...theoretically yes they could do that and it sounds like a smart idea, but if the company starts selling off its shares in the numbers it would need to get the money it could create a massive panic similar to a run on a bank. If Monday morning United or Delta started making available hundreds of thousands of shares the value would tank and put the company at risk again. Even if the Government buys the shares you could still see a seller panic and sell off trying to maximize their profit in fear of a tanking. Not a guarantee mind you, but in the here and now it is a very dangerous game to play. (which is why they should have been doing this for a month...a slow increase of shares available raises zero red flags)

Now personally, I would force them to sell or face bankruptcy but there is no way a GOP lead Treasury would ever do something like that. They would sooner nationalize the airlines for 4 years so they can then biotch and whine and blame the next President for it.
Click to expand...

That’s simply not the case. It worked with GM when the government took 61% stake in the company.
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

dxmnkd316 said:
That’s simply not the case. It worked with GM when the government took 61% stake in the company.
Click to expand...

GM and the airlines are not the same thing for a variety of reasons. Also the situations dont parallel because air travel is at a stand still for the foreseeable future. If the Government buys a ton of stock in say United tomorrow it doesnt do anything because United still has almost no flights going anywhere. (or WAY below the needed amount to make this work) There is no money in return. By keeping the lights on at GM that means cars are still being made which, if the stock buyout fails, have a sellable value. There is less risk on the investment. (though obviously still a ton of risk)

Airlines only have value if the seats are being used. If the planes are grounded they are just mulinational office buildings selling no product and producing no value. Most of the work force will still be laid off or furloughed in some capacity. If this lasts as long as some fear (even with minor air travel) the stock risks being worthless a month from now. Then you start talking about if they need to start selling off planes to keep the company open...

Obviously this is all theoretical cause we wont know until they do it. If the grounding lasts all the way through May...you wont want to be holding too much airline stock unless you bought after it tanked whether the Government bought some or not. Though they would be less likely to go to bankruptcy if that were the case so at least your shares would be relatively safe...just not very valuable.

This would be much more to study in my MBA courses than the crap we tend to go over :)
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

Handyman said:
GM and the airlines are not the same thing for a variety of reasons. Also the situations dont parallel because air travel is at a stand still for the foreseeable future. If the Government buys a ton of stock in say United tomorrow it doesnt do anything because United still has almost no flights going anywhere. (or WAY below the needed amount to make this work) There is no money in return. By keeping the lights on at GM that means cars are still being made which, if the stock buyout fails, have a sellable value. There is less risk on the investment. (though obviously still a ton of risk)

Airlines only have value if the seats are being used. If the planes are grounded they are just mulinational office buildings selling no product and producing no value. Most of the work force will still be laid off or furloughed in some capacity. If this lasts as long as some fear (even with minor air travel) the stock risks being worthless a month from now. Then you start talking about if they need to start selling off planes to keep the company open...

Obviously this is all theoretical cause we wont know until they do it. If the grounding lasts all the way through May...you wont want to be holding too much airline stock unless you bought after it tanked whether the Government bought some or not. Though they would be less likely to go to bankruptcy if that were the case so at least your shares would be relatively safe...just not very valuable.

This would be much more to study in my MBA courses than the crap we tend to go over :)
Click to expand...

You get equity not because it’s an instant return tomorrow. You buy equity because
1. They will be profitable eventually.
2. If not, we protect our stake in the physical assets like the planes.


If they liquidate someone will buy. There will be a demand for air travel eventually. The thing is, we don’t give these companies everything in return for nothing. They’ll just go back to buying back stock and ****ing the employees again.

Again, these shares should be first in line among all debt. That protects the people (us) who didn’t want a stake but had to buy. The owners of the company shouldn’t get first in line because they’re the ones who ****ed this up. The shareholders approved the board who approved the decisions the execs made.
 
Re: Business, Economic, and Tax Policy 9: No, No, No, We Compost The Rich

rufus said:
How much do they need to keep the lights on. Most of their expense is payroll, and right now they aren't paying anyone. They're not paying for fuel, or maintenance, or supplies and equipment, they aren't flying anywhere.
Click to expand...

This is all incorrect. They are still flying some routes, still paying the vast majority of full-time employees and paying their share of those employees' benefits, and all those planes that are parked are incurring maintenance costs and parking fees - you can't just start flying a plane again after it's been parked for two months.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
This is all incorrect. They are still flying some routes, still paying the vast majority of full-time employees and paying their share of those employees' benefits, and all those planes that are parked are incurring maintenance costs and parking fees - you can't just start flying a plane again after it's been parked for two months.
Click to expand...

Yup.
Delta has some non exec employees cut down hours and pay by 25%.
 
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