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Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

So is Morrisville not going to be able to make the playoffs like Genny and Buff State for the next two years too?
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

So is Morrisville not going to be able to make the playoffs like Genny and Buff State for the next two years too?

Morrisville should be good to go next season. Right now it looks like Genny and Buffalo only miss the post season this year.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

So is Morrisville not going to be able to make the playoffs like Genny and Buff State for the next two years too?

Morrisville has nothing to do with what happened. Morrisville doesn't get into the playoffs because that's how things are done once you jump up into D-III.

The two have nothing to do with each other.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Morrisville should be good to go next season. Right now it looks like Genny and Buffalo only miss the post season this year.

True. But what are their rosters going to look like next season will be the real key.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

I know the SUNYAC coaches have some sort of unofficial verbal agreement not to take top players from each others teams. I remember hearing about it after the Kevin Galan departure at PSU. He left PSU cause it was too expensive and Geneseo offered a better aide package.

It will be interesting to see if the other SUNYAC coaches keep their word on this agreement.

Don't forget about the financial aid part of the equation. These Canadian kids who need it, can't get it because of the sanctions, they are down the road.

I say all bets are off.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

The Canadian Incentive Grant at Buff State for 2009/2010 was free Campus Housing (value of $2874 per semester); but they still had to pay the out-of-state tuition of $6435 plus fees per semester.

I can assure you, it would have been cheaper to stay in Canada; but obviously Hockey Players are motivated for the out-of-country experience.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

The Canadian Incentive Grant at Buff State for 2009/2010 was free Campus Housing (value of $2874 per semester); but they still had to pay the out-of-state tuition of $6435 plus fees per semester.

I can assure you, it would have been cheaper to stay in Canada; but obviously Hockey Players are motivated for the out-of-country experience.

Better education (?) and our women.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

So the question is: Will Nick Petriello be wearing Green and Gold next season? :eek: :D
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Not any different from any other year under Carriere according to some.

Despite my low regard for the Buff State guy, I would never wish this on the players. And even more so for Geneseo, a team who could have made some noise in the playoffs. An American-born player, and senior, Dan Brown who never received the tangible benefits of the subsidies, now pays the penalty in his final kick at the can. I understand the reason for the penalty, but I also feel for the guys who are finishing their careers.

Do Canadians at other DIII schools receive any incentives? Or were Buff State and Geneseo the only cases of this?
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Despite my low regard for the Buff State guy, I would never wish this on the players. And even more so for Geneseo, a team who could have made some noise in the playoffs. An American-born player, and senior, Dan Brown who never received the tangible benefits of the subsidies, now pays the penalty in his final kick at the can. I understand the reason for the penalty, but I also feel for the guys who are finishing their careers.

Do Canadians at other DIII schools receive any incentives? Or were Buff State and Geneseo the only cases of this?

There are strict guidelines in regards to aid and grants for out of state/country students. Geneseo and Buffalo's school financial admins. obviously did not stay within those guidelines and the students/athletes are left to pay the price.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Despite my low regard for the Buff State guy, I would never wish this on the players. And even more so for Geneseo, a team who could have made some noise in the playoffs. An American-born player, and senior, Dan Brown who never received the tangible benefits of the subsidies, now pays the penalty in his final kick at the can. I understand the reason for the penalty, but I also feel for the guys who are finishing their careers.

Do Canadians at other DIII schools receive any incentives? Or were Buff State and Geneseo the only cases of this?

It doesn't read like it was the incentives the players got, just that hockey players at both schools got more of the money than other Canadians at the school.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Despite my low regard for the Buff State guy, I would never wish this on the players. And even more so for Geneseo, a team who could have made some noise in the playoffs. An American-born player, and senior, Dan Brown who never received the tangible benefits of the subsidies, now pays the penalty in his final kick at the can. I understand the reason for the penalty, but I also feel for the guys who are finishing their careers.

Do Canadians at other DIII schools receive any incentives? Or were Buff State and Geneseo the only cases of this?


Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the problem is not that they were receiving incentives. It is the fact that they were the only ones receiving them. If ALL Canadians attending those schools had the same opportunity to qualify for the grants, then I believe, there would not be an issue.

In these two cases, it seems these grants were only available to the athletes, which is a HUGE no-no.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the problem is not that they were receiving incentives. It is the fact that they were the only ones receiving them. If ALL Canadians attending those schools had the same opportunity to qualify for the grants, then I believe, there would not be an issue.

In these two cases, it seems these grants were only available to the athletes, which is a HUGE no-no.

That's precisely how it looks to me and yeah, that's a huge no-no to make. Excluding other Canadians because they don't play hockey is... Well that's just stupid.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Paging Josh Carey...

Simply, I am ****ed. As a non-athlete student, I was always irked by the enhancements, of all types, offered to athletes at the school. As much as we're all a fan of athletics and enjoy collegiate sports, it seemed preposterous to me that at a Division-III state institution, how extensive the university's endorsement of dual experiences for athletes and non-athletes was. You expect something like that at Duke, but not Geneseo or Buffalo State.

If the postseason ban were for any length of time beyond this year, it would be assuredly the nail in the coffin for Geneseo hockey. It may still be, but it's less certain. The Canadian influx has been widespread throughout the SUNYAC, so this might not be the last we hear about this. However, this mechanism was a strong measure to get hockey players to the school. Geneseo's academic situation is much different than, say Oswego's or Plattsburgh's - and the school is only getting more selective. Getting top hockey players who can get into the school - with the NCAA carefully watching the admissions process - will become even more difficult.

Geneseo has, aside from a few brief spurts, been a historically average program, with brief spurts of success mired by significant droughts of sub-10 win seasons. Taking out this mechanism, the future does not look bright for the Ice Knights. You only need look at Morrisville or Lebanon Valley to see what taking the hope (hope of a playoff berth, hope of a postseason run, hope of tasting the NCAAs) out of the locker room does. There's only one person left associated with the hockey program at Geneseo that was around when the team won its back-to-back league championships, and that's assistant coach Kris Heeres. The culture of winning that existed in my early years at the school has completely dissipated.

Chris Schultz took over for Jason Lammers in 2006-7. That year Mitch Stephens only had ten goals against 45 assists, and dispite being the team's most dynamic threat, spent most of the power play hovering away from the net. That team also included Mike MacDonald, Steve Jordan, Mark Schwamberger, and Brett Bestwick making their final appearances in Geneseo uniforms. Once that core of Geneseo's championship teams left, Scultz guided the team to a combined record of 30-39-2, including this season. That's a winning percentage of .437. And it doesn't look like it's about to get better, does it? The fact that the NCAA has just determined Geneseo had a recruiting advantage over other schools* while Schultz was racking up this winning percentage is especially concerning. Where's the issue then? A superior recruiting advantage, combined with a solid coach, should lead to success on the ice. The fact we can establish Geneseo had a recruiting advantage, seems to suggest Schultz either isn't a very good recruiter, or isn't a very good coach. And that conclusion raises questions if he'll be able to bring the program back to prominance after this latest setback and being forced to entice players on the same playing field as all other schools operate.

So Geneseo's administrators have to make a choice on how seriously they want to take athletics, especially their largest drawing sport of hockey. They need to decide if they want to commit financial resources legitimately, or if they want to focus on being an academic instiution. And if they are going to put the monetary resources into athletics, they need to determine if they are getting the best possible value for their dollar.

Suffice it to say, there are no happy Geneseo hockey fans today.

*And it is a recruiting advantage. Other schools might do that same thing, but if they do it in an acceptable manner to include the entire student body, that means they either have fewer opportunities for athletes, or are spending a wider portion of their budget on it, decreasing services elsewhere and making the insitutiton as a whole less attractive.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

That's precisely how it looks to me and yeah, that's a huge no-no to make. Excluding other Canadians because they don't play hockey is... Well that's just stupid.

I clicked on your link to the "recruiting violations" link in the bottom of your signature and I can't help but think there might be a few other programs that won't be sleeping well in the months to come.
 
Re: Buffalo State, SUNY Geneseo penalized for aid violations

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that the problem is not that they were receiving incentives. It is the fact that they were the only ones receiving them. If ALL Canadians attending those schools had the same opportunity to qualify for the grants, then I believe, there would not be an issue.

In these two cases, it seems these grants were only available to the athletes, which is a HUGE no-no.



Buffalo is a border city; what other Canadians would want to pay this amount. The tuition and fees, even with the Canadian Incentive Grant, are much more expensive than going to a comparable Canadian University.

Only hockey players are willing to pay this amount; I'm sure the Grant is available non-hockey players.

How do Oswego and Plattsburgh do it???
 
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