Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

[MCgrad07]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

Don't look for Jacobs to spend any money. That guy has been a cheap skate with the Bruins for year. Always screwing over the fans in boston buy cheaping out in paying players. thank god there was a salary cap so everyone had to be as cheap as him.

 

[GoNU5]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

Don't look for Jacobs to spend any money. That guy has been a cheap skate with the Bruins for year. Always screwing over the fans in boston buy cheaping out in paying players. thank god there was a salary cap so everyone had to be as cheap as him.

I don't think you can call him cheap if he spends up to the cap like everyone else... They had problems with the cap last year too, so I'm confused by this. He also donated $10 Million to Buffalo before, so he doesn't have qualms about donating to his alma mater.

 

[5hole]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

What would RIT gain from that conference? It's not like they are going to be playing better teams in conference. I think it would be difficult for multiple teams from this confernece to get NCAA bids. RIT can't offer scholarships. I don't see any incenting.

C'mon Komey ... Mercyhurst, RoMo and NU are almost always highly competitive in the conference (AHA or CHA) ... certainly much "better" than the AHA Eastern Bloc teams that RIT seems to have grown comfortable with since they went D1. Canisius is getting better recently, too. Bowling Green may not have been upper echelon in CCHA but I suspect they would have been in the AHA.

Do we get multiple teams in from the AHA? ... well, no. One of the reasons is that the PWR of the better teams is so low because we have to play multiple conference games v the absolute worst teams in D1. In the suggested six team conference, those games are eliminated and, if the conference schedule is structured properly, any given team could schedule so as to set up for a chance for a bid.

I am so tired of hearing about no scholies. Okay, technically, you offer no scholies. However, defacto, RIT does not lose a player they want because they cannot offer an athletic sholarship. If you ask could I prove that, no. Am I convinced of it, yes ... because I have heard it from sources I trust (who shall remain nameless). Besides, if you didn't get all the players you wanted, RIT would probably be no better than some of the Eastern Bloc teams.

An incentive? Well, a league where your team gets to play at BG's barn and maybe a good extra NC opponent as opposed to traveling to Bentley, AIC, UConn and SHU to play in community rinks in front of 150 people. PLEASE do not tell me your team enjoys that. PLEASE do not tell me that those are the teams you look forward to seeing in your barn ... as opposed to the AHA4 and BG and UB or whoever. That alone should be enough incenting for you.

 

[MCgrad07]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

In the late 90s and most of the 2000s he had a crappy product because he never had a big goal scorer once Neely got hurt.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

One of the reasons is that the PWR of the better teams is so low because we have to play multiple conference games v the absolute worst teams in D1.

I can guarantee you, from having worked with the numbers a lot, that non-conference performance, and overall winning percentage, matters far more than conference strength of schedule. AIC is not that big of a drag on RIT (or whoever's top-flight in the league) unless the team actually loses to the Jackets.

 

[5hole]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

I can guarantee you, from having worked with the numbers a lot, that non-conference performance, and overall winning percentage, matters far more than conference strength of schedule. AIC is not that big of a drag on RIT (or whoever's top-flight in the league) unless the team actually loses to the Jackets.

I am sure you have much more expertise on PWR than I; however, taking a quick look at the Primer on CHN, I do not see much reference to whether the opponent is in-conference or non-conference. Maybe I would have to drill deeper on that for an explanation. However, it is not just RIT v AIC for one game. It is three games against AIC ... and three against SHU ... three against UConn ... three against Bentley ... etc. Essentially, most of the schedule eaten up against weak competition with only seven NC games to build a better PWR in non-conference performance.

 

[Tweedle Dee]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

This is my opinion on the whole thing. ND is going to HE(we can all agree that that is pretty set right?). The question becomes who goes in with them, lets stick to the rumors and say RPI. That leaves one spot in ECAC. The two choices are RIT and Holy Cross. If RIT takes the spot then you will probably have BG go to WCHA. If Holy Cross takes it then I can see RIT joining with BG, RMU, Niagara, Canisius, and MH to form a new look CCHA. You lose 5 from AHA which means that UAH can then join AHA and finally have a conference(unless I'm that far behind on the UAH situation that they have been dropped). It would give AHA 7 teams but that is workable, not ideal but workable. Then if UB comes in they go to CCHA and another teams joins with them. I actually prefer the CCHA scenario.

 

[burgie12]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

(unless I'm that far behind on the UAH situation that they have been dropped)

They haven't been dropped yet, but their interim president is doing everything he can to make it so.

 

[5hole]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

They haven't been dropped yet, but their interim president is doing everything he can to make it so.

They just appointed a new Prez, the interim is gone. The UAH faithful are hoping that could change the outlook but there does not seem to be any indication either way, as yet.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

They just appointed a new Prez, the interim is gone. The UAH faithful are hoping that could change the outlook but there does not seem to be any indication either way, as yet.

That takes place November 1st. Portera still has a month to axe the program.

 

[fangers]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

re: UAH. Bowen, leader of the alum fundraising group, supposed to meet with Portera @ 18 Oct. Portera supposed to be meeting with McLeod prior to that. Not sure what time of communication, if any, they've been involved with re: the BG/AHA rumors. Folks are hoping that the decision can be pushed back so the new president can have some input - if I was the new guy coming in I'd think I'd like to at least investigate it and make a decision in lieu of inheriting it. But no one really sure.

At a time when UAH needed strong administrative support the most they are stuck with an interim president and new AD...so no surprise no conference has publically stepped up...

5hole - you making the trip over from ATL for any games?

 

[5hole]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

fangers ... no, I just don't see how. There are a whole lot Gladiators games to get to and hopefully a few Niagara games (just booked my flight ... going to Yost for the opener ). Plus my son's destination wedding in February ... if there is a free weekend in there, the warden - er, the better half - is claiming it.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

I am sure you have much more expertise on PWR than I; however, taking a quick look at the Primer on CHN, I do not see much reference to whether the opponent is in-conference or non-conference. Maybe I would have to drill deeper on that for an explanation. However, it is not just RIT v AIC for one game. It is three games against AIC ... and three against SHU ... three against UConn ... three against Bentley ... etc. Essentially, most of the schedule eaten up against weak competition with only seven NC games to build a better PWR in non-conference performance.

Well, to be completely clear, I'm not saying playing in a weaker conference* has no negative impact on a team's RPI, because that's a ludicrous assertion. It often does, but it's more so the case that it has less of a downward pull than one would assume.

There's no specific part of the system that says "non-conference games are worth more", but it is more of an emergent property of the way college hockey teams schedule and organize themselves.

Givens:
1) We have insular scheduling groups (i.e. conferences), and do not even attempt a true round robin (or even a nationwide schedule balanced by region/conference).
2) Within an insular scheduling group, the aggregate record of all teams playing within that group is .500. For every team that wins, another must lose.

Conclusions:
1) The only way to statistically define strength on a nationwide scale between insular scheduling groups is by looking at the results of games between those groups.
2) Those games, therefore, have more of an impact on statistical readings relative to a team's winning percentage than those played within their scheduling groups. Example: UVM's appearance in the NCAA tournament in 2008. UVM was 8th place within Hockey East, but because they had a strong NC schedule that they performed well against, their PWR factors were bumped up to the point where they were able to 'leapfrog' teams who played better in their own league and get an at-large bid.

*Which, in and of itself, is defined statistically as "the aggregate non-conference record of all teams in the league is on the lower side of .500".

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

That leaves one spot in ECAC. The two choices are RIT and Holy Cross.

Why Holy Cross but not Niagara?


Powers &8^]

 

[komey1]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

Let ne take my shots....

C'mon Komey ... Mercyhurst, RoMo and NU are almost always highly competitive in the conference (AHA or CHA) ... certainly much "better" than the AHA Eastern Bloc teams that RIT seems to have grown comfortable with since they went D1. Canisius is getting better recently, too. Bowling Green may not have been upper echelon in CCHA but I suspect they would have been in the AHA.

No doubt they would be better, but I don't think it would be THAT much better. Also, don't forget that someone is going to be the bottom feeder in the conference. The conference opponents would be nice, but basically, we are only adding Bowling Green and UB to our schedule. I also think "the National" is a dumb idea because all those good programs - someone will be disappointed.

Do we get multiple teams in from the AHA? ... well, no. One of the reasons is that the PWR of the better teams is so low because we have to play multiple conference games v the absolute worst teams in D1. In the suggested six team conference, those games are eliminated and, if the conference schedule is structured properly, any given team could schedule so as to set up for a chance for a bid.

NC performance is a big part of the PWR. Why do the WCHA and HE and CCHA get lots of bids? Because they win non-conference games. That flips so many comparisons with some wins.

I am so tired of hearing about no scholies. Okay, technically, you offer no scholies. However, defacto, RIT does not lose a player they want because they cannot offer an athletic sholarship. If you ask could I prove that, no. Am I convinced of it, yes ... because I have heard it from sources I trust (who shall remain nameless). Besides, if you didn't get all the players you wanted, RIT would probably be no better than some of the Eastern Bloc teams.

I don't doubt that RIT gets a lot of players that they want. There are a lot of good things for RIT to offer. But I also think that RIT gets players because they have been consistant winners - even if it is the AHA. Recruits know every year they have a pretty good shot at the NCAA. And, yes I think RIT would be a constant threat in this conference for regular season and tournament titles. Playing against teams that do offer full rides is a tougher challenge, though.

An incentive? Well, a league where your team gets to play at BG's barn and maybe a good extra NC opponent as opposed to traveling to Bentley, AIC, UConn and SHU to play in community rinks in front of 150 people. PLEASE do not tell me your team enjoys that. PLEASE do not tell me that those are the teams you look forward to seeing in your barn ... as opposed to the AHA4 and BG and UB or whoever. That alone should be enough incenting for you.

I'm sure RIT doesn't enjoy playing in those places. But at the same time, RIT has various alumni events in those places. Could they do that at BGSU, who knows. What is so great about playing in BG's barn? Because they fill it more? And not for nothing, RIT fills their own arena more often than not - so it's not like RIT needs great competition to fill the Ritter. And I think they could still do more once the new arena is built.

 

[komey1]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

Why Holy Cross but not Niagara?


Powers &8^]

I believe these teams have academic profiles similar to the reas of the ECACHL.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

However, defacto, RIT does not lose a player they want because they cannot offer an athletic sholarship. If you ask could I prove that, no. Am I convinced of it, yes ... because I have heard it from sources I trust (who shall remain nameless). Besides, if you didn't get all the players you wanted, RIT would probably be no better than some of the Eastern Bloc teams.

This is a rather circular argument - RIT knows that they have no shot at landing the cream of the crop who march inexorably to UND, BC, DU, etc. Those guys are never even on RIT's list. So saying that RIT gets the players they "want" does not mean that they recruit competitively for top talent - their list of wants only includes guys they think they can get in the first place. I'm not saying that 18 scholarships would make RIT competitive for BU's recruits overnight, but it would probably bring more guys into RIT's sphere of possibilities than are currently there now.

 

[5hole]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

This is a rather circular argument - RIT knows that they have no shot at landing the cream of the crop who march inexorably to UND, BC, DU, etc. Those guys are never even on RIT's list. So saying that RIT gets the players they "want" does not mean that they recruit competitively for top talent - their list of wants only includes guys they think they can get in the first place. I'm not saying that 18 scholarships would make RIT competitive for BU's recruits overnight, but it would probably bring more guys into RIT's sphere of possibilities than are currently there now.

I never said that the players that they "want" are from among the "top talent." I think it is understood that RIT recruits at a given level, as does Niagara, Cornell and every school. And they generally recruit against schools at their own level. So I was not talking about the quality of player. I was simply saying that RIT has the means to bring in a player that they are interested in - at the level that they recruit at ... that the inability to offer an athletic scholarship does not undermine their ability to land that player. In other words, that recruit is not passing on RIT to go to Canisius or Niagara or BGSU or whoever it is that is also competing for the player due solely or even primarily to the scholie situation.

For that matter, I have stated before in other forums or on other boards that (I have been told) because of the league that Niagara plays in (and formerly played in), Niagara never successfully lands a recruit that is also being recruited by ECAC schools ... which is precisely why Niagara has always wanted to get into a better league - to improve its program.

 

[Tweedle Dee]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

I never said that the players that they "want" are from among the "top talent." I think it is understood that RIT recruits at a given level, as does Niagara, Cornell and every school. And they generally recruit against schools at their own level. So I was not talking about the quality of player. I was simply saying that RIT has the means to bring in a player that they are interested in - at the level that they recruit at ... that the inability to offer an athletic scholarship does not undermine their ability to land that player. In other words, that recruit is not passing on RIT to go to Canisius or Niagara or BGSU or whoever it is that is also competing for the player due solely or even primarily to the scholie situation.

For that matter, I have stated before in other forums or on other boards that (I have been told) because of the league that Niagara plays in (and formerly played in), Niagara never successfully lands a recruit that is also being recruited by ECAC schools ... which is precisely why Niagara has always wanted to get into a better league - to improve its program.

I can back your point up by saying RIT has lost a recruit to Mercyhurst but not becasue of scholarships. Mercyhurst offered the major the player wanted to go into, RIT didn't. If I remember the conversation I had with the player correctly(mind you it was 3 summers ago in a bar) if RIT had the major he would've come here.

 

[ClOuD 9]

Re: Buffalo Bulls varsity men's ice hockey?

I don't think you can call him cheap if he spends up to the cap like everyone else... They had problems with the cap last year too, so I'm confused by this. He also donated $10 Million to Buffalo before, so he doesn't have qualms about donating to his alma mater.

See also the 80's, 90's, and 2000's. A Stanley Cup doesn't make up for 36 years of absentee ownership, Jeremy Jacobs can go to hell.

I must confess that I haven't followed the conference re-alignment discussion too closely and am a bit surprised to hear that RPI may be jumping ship, they have a long history in the ECAC and seem to fit that mold better (academically, geographically, facilities wise, etc).

The big loser in all of this is UConn who have a women's program in Hockey East and apparently aren't interested in investing in and growing their men's program. If the league adds Notre Dame and RPI I wouldn't expect to see them expand again for quite a while - it looks like the Huskies are going to miss the bus.