Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

[rinkrat890890]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

am i a coward too for also thinking brown needs change?

If you sit annonymously on a forum and quack about it and don't do something about it while hurting the team with random poisonous thoughts, then yes, you'd be considered a coward too!

 

[Jersey]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

RStarr...We all know you are not a coward.

IMHO there is a big difference between:

- constructive suggestions from outsiders "A change is Needed"
vs
- Insiders "Calling for the Coaches head" or "Spewing Dirt" on this forum.

All valid points OnMaa. I would suggest in general( not the specific school in question) that the coaching fraternity is like any other subset of society, there are good , the bad and the in between. From a distance of almost 300 miles, there seems to be something awry in RI (couldn't resist). I firmly agree that constructive criticism is acceptable, but rantings such as those which began this topic are off base

 

[rinkrat890890]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

If you sit annonymously on a forum and quack about it and don't do something about it while hurting the team with random poisonous thoughts, then yes, you'd be considered a coward too!

I remember someone way back when, who would have random thoughts that people would go crazy over, however he was never annonymous. I "think" his name was kashmoney or something along those lines. When he passed away, it was sad because even the ones who didn't ever agree with him felt so bad that he'd never post here again. It's just not good in my opinion to post bad thoughts even if they have meaning, if you cannot stand up and be recognized for who you really are. I think there was another poster that spoke his mind (and that is okay) by the name of thomas tornado or again something like that, who was very vocal, but it was okay because i believe he wasn't annonymous. If you're not annonymous and you speak your mind, it means more to the thread. If you're annonymous and you try to come off as someone else, it's just not good because people can speculate and you can get some innocent person in trouble. That is what I believe Cookie is trying to do!

 

[Dad09]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

I firmly agree that constructive criticism is acceptable, but rantings such as those which began this topic are off base

The first comments in this thread were anything but ranting. The first two pages actually. The discussion was a constructive and civil exchange between commenters offering and making observations on the subject at hand. That was examining the loss of significant undergraduate talent from the Brown team.

The ranting and negative comments specifically directed at other commenters started just today, and it does appear to me that it is in reaction to the first comment ccookie79 made in the thread.

Let's hope the thread doesn't descend as far as the other one did into comments specifically criticizing the commitment, dedication to the game, and work ethic of the players who left the team.

 

[BlackWidow]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

I've been reading for a long, long time here and my personal take on the Brown situation is this. I've done some background research on the Brown rosters for the past several years. There's never been a turnover so huge as there was this season. So, the question is why? What is different? Obviously it's not Digit. Every year, for the past 4 or 5 years, there's been 1 new assistant coach added and there's been no player exodus. Suddenly, Assistant Coach Coady appears on scene and all of a sudden the team has disintegrated with 9 valuable players gone. This is a disturbing stat and I wonder what influence he has on Coach Murphy, or is it that he's possibly trying to make her look bad so that he moves into the top spot? This is the first time one of the Good "ol boys is running the women's team and I don't think the irony of that should be lost.

I know everyone has her own opinion here and I am entitled to mine. I have no kids in the system and my only interest is speculative. I don't think the post starter or the supporting contributors of his/hers is ranting or going negative. It's simply an observation for a team that is finding itself struggling at the bottom when that should not be the case.

If history holds true, I will be attacked by the usual list of suspect posters who staunchly want to defend the coaches - no matter what! This website is supposed to be for an exchange of ideas and sentiment. To point out what is wrong with a team for the purpose of making it right is a positive in my estimation.

 

[fan007]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

The first comments in this thread were anything but ranting. The first two pages actually. The discussion was a constructive and civil exchange between commenters offering and making observations on the subject at hand. That was examining the loss of significant undergraduate talent from the Brown team.

The ranting and negative comments specifically directed at other commenters started just today, and it does appear to me that it is in reaction to the first comment ccookie79 made in the thread.

Let's hope the thread doesn't descend as far as the other one did into comments specifically criticizing the commitment, dedication to the game, and work ethic of the players who left the team.

You are right, Dad09, the ranting and negative comments came after ccookie79 posted. I did not find ccookie79's comments to be negative. In fact, I think they were analytical and meant for sincere discussion. His/her remarks - were attacked not for what was said but for who said it. Go back and read ccookie79's comments and then look at the posts that followed. That's where the negatives began.

To BlackWidow, you might be on to something. There's good reason to believe that your scenario might be credible as Asst. Coach Coady has never coached - or had an interest in coaching - a women's team. His NHL career is over so, by becoming the Brown Women's coach, wouldn't that be a way of keeping his career in the spotlight and his name out there?

 

[Hux]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

What is different?

There are three assistant coaches and the difference appears to be accountability.

 

[fan007]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

There are three assistant coaches and the difference appears to be accountability.

HUH? And there are only 2 assistant coaches. What do you mean?

 

[Hux]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

HUH? And there are only 2 assistant coaches. What do you mean?

Coady, McInnis, Hecht

You don't do what the coaches tell ya, then you find yourself on the outs. (I'm talking about those who were cut)

 

[4LoveoftheGame]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

Digit Murphy is an egomaniac whose time has passed. She has been bullying and intimidating her players long enough. Word is out. She needs to go.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

... I have no kids in the system and my only interest is speculative.

I won't argue with that. Baseless speculation, but speculation none the less.

You are telling us that a new assistant comes into town and suddenly a bunch of players are let go or quit because of his arrival. Do you care to document where this assistant has done this before? Otherwise this is very poor logic. Heck, the sun came up the day of tryouts, perhaps that caused all this turnover.

If you are going to muddy this assistant (whom I don't know from Jack the Ripper), please provide supporting evidence.

I have no stake in Brown hockey either, but I am troubled by unsubstantiated character assisinations.

 

[4LoveoftheGame]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

Boy, did my rep plummet with one post! Seems that there are a lot of blind Digit supporters out there who have no problem bashing my rep, but can't post anything relevant. If you have a problem with what I posted, please comment. If you have any knowledge of Digit's tactics and antics during her career, you would realize she only cares about one person: Digit! She is a bully, plain and simple.

 

[Brown Parent]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

Black Widow, I respect your right to express your opinion and I appreciate hearing your point of view. However, I think it is important to make sure cited data is accurate as anything less may weaken one’s creditability needlessly. In an effort to bring some clarity to this discussion, I compared rosters of players and assistant coaches as well as overall records listed on www.collegehockeystats.net for the last five years. Here is what I gleaned:

Year Records Conf Non-Conf Overall
03-04 Overall 12- 5- 1 6- 6- 1 18-11- 2
04-05 Overall 11- 8- 1 4- 7- 1 15-15- 2
05-06 Overall 10- 6- 4 5- 7- 1 15-13- 5
06-07 Overall 6-15- 1 4- 2- 1 10-17- 2
07-08 Overall 4-14- 4 1- 5- 1 5-19- 5
08-09 Overall 6-16- 0 1- 5- 1 7-21- 1
09-10 Overall 0- 3- 1 1- 1- 0 1- 4- 1

During this time, 25 players have left the program prematurely. During the same time, Brown has had nine assistant coaches: Jon Guiffre, Ryan Stone, Ali Kenney, Shannon Kennedy,Dawn Loomis, Heather Reinke, Edith Zimmering, Sean Coady and Jill McInnis.

The Head Coach ultimately is responsible for the recruitment of players, hiring and retaining of assistants as well as the development and future of the program. All of the above data suggests a review and change is warranted. I admire the commitment of all the student-athletes both current and past, and wish only the best for each and every one of them.

 

[scrambledlegs]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

I think the defections could also be related to the large teams that Brown tends to have. For instance, last year, there were 28 players on the team, which means each game 8 sat. This is an extremely large number and I wouldn't be surprised to see a large number leave after the year.

Regarding the rest of it, I think you are being quite naive. This isn't peewee hockey where a coach is being judged solely on his/her wins and losses. On the surface, it may seem that it is all about that, but there is so much more. How many students does the coach bring into the college (based on the roster size, Digit is quite a good recruiter), how many students brought in actually graduate (seems also pretty high if the students stay at Brown even after they leave the team), how academically suited the students are for Brown (see previous comment), how the coach deals with issues, etc. These may all outweigh wins and losses in the administrations mind.

The beauty about this country (and the education system) is it is a free market. If you (or your daughter) are that unhappy with the coach, then leave. There are plenty of other places that your daughter may be able to go where winning is the most important goal. However, if you choose to stay, then just shut up. You are doing nothing to help the team. The pressures on these students are already high enough, they shouldn't be forced to also take care of their parents.

 

[4LoveoftheGame]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

"The Head Coach ultimately is responsible for the recruitment of players, hiring and retaining of assistants as well as the development and future of the program. All of the above data suggests a review and change is warranted. I admire the commitment of all the student-athletes both current and past, and wish only the best for each and every one of them." Brown Parent

Here, here! Very well put!

 

[4LoveoftheGame]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

"The beauty about this country (and the education system) is it is a free market. If you (or your daughter) are that unhappy with the coach, then leave. There are plenty of other places that your daughter may be able to go where winning is the most important goal. However, if you choose to stay, then just shut up. You are doing nothing to help the team. The pressures on these students are already high enough, they shouldn't be forced to also take care of their parents." scrambledlegs

No offense intended, but did you play or have you coached college athletics? If not, let me tell you that there is an unspoken, but very real, lack of tolerance for those who do not go with the flow. Have you ever watched Digit on the Brown bench, or better yet, heard her in the locker room? If so you will understand why it MIGHT be tough for a young woman of 18 - 22 to stand up to her. The posters on here who are suggesting a change is needed are doing nothing to HURT Brown Women's Hockey, in fact they are ultimately wishing/working for the BEST for the program's FUTURE.

 

[scrambledlegs]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

"The beauty about this country (and the education system) is it is a free market. If you (or your daughter) are that unhappy with the coach, then leave. There are plenty of other places that your daughter may be able to go where winning is the most important goal. However, if you choose to stay, then just shut up. You are doing nothing to help the team. The pressures on these students are already high enough, they shouldn't be forced to also take care of their parents." scrambledlegs

No offense intended, but did you play or have you coached college athletics? If not, let me tell you that there is an unspoken, but very real, lack of tolerance for those who do not go with the flow. Have you ever watched Digit on the Brown bench, or better yet, heard her in the locker room? If so you will understand why it MIGHT be tough for a young woman of 18 - 22 to stand up to her. The posters on here who are suggesting a change is needed are doing nothing to HURT Brown Women's Hockey, in fact they are ultimately wishing/working for the BEST for the program's FUTURE.

To both of your points, the answer is yes. Regarding the first, I really do not understand the correlation between someone who is unhappy with the program going to a different school and lack of tolerance for those that do not go with the flow. People transfer all the time for a myriad of reasons. If you are referring to players being too afraid to speak up within the team or not going with the flow, I would ask what sport you played? Isn't one of the roles of the coach is to drive conformity so that everyone is working together as a unit? How can that be tolerated?

While you might not agree with what is being said in the locker room, you are crossing the line by bringing it up in public. I am sure that any of us who are close to players have insights into a locker room that are truly between the coach and the players and should stay that way. It is easy for parents to take offense when their children are subject to harsh treatment (especially when they may have been the "superstars" on previous teams) but I would guess that the Brown locker room is not the only one where that happens.

And yes, I have watched Digit a few times, most recently when Brown beat PC. The person I observed on the bench seemed calm, supportive and truly having a good time (that could have been boistered by the 4 goals they scored in the 3rd period ).

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

Boy, did my rep plummet with one post! Seems that there are a lot of blind Digit supporters out there who have no problem bashing my rep, but can't post anything relevant. If you have a problem with what I posted, please comment. If you have any knowledge of Digit's tactics and antics during her career, you would realize she only cares about one person: Digit! She is a bully, plain and simple.

Do you really think that people at Brown or their families who support the program are going to come on here to start a debate with three of four disgruntled people who have axes to grind. Most people at the inside are smart enough not to get drawn in these debates, and prefer to deal with the issues internally as opposed to publicly.

IMHO this whole thread is for the most part a one sided smear campaign against the Brown Coaching staff. Just look at the title and judge for yourself. As far as I'm concerned, anyone involved with the program as a player or parent or extension thereof, that comes on this board lambasting the program or coach is OUT OF LINE, and IMHO NOT a team player.

To win with a team, you need to act as a team, stand up for your teammates, support your leaders and deal with your issues directly and internally. If you cannot do that, you are not really part of the team, and your stay with the team will probably be short-lived.

I really feel sorry for the players on the team who have to hear all this. And the parent who posted suggesting that players do not read/hear/know about this stuff is very naive.

So "four the love of the Game", do the current Brown players a favor and stop the attacks. If Brown is to work as a team this year, they don't need all these attacks in a public forum. Even Cookie79 admitted "it was the kids who lost out, not me". If these attacks continue, I'm afraid even more kids will lose out, as the team will surely fall apart sooner or later.

As far as accountability goes, the head coach is accountable to the AD and the school. I sincerely doubt if many of you know the actual objectives and measuring sticks for success agreed upon between the coach and the AD. The players are accountable to hold up the standards of the team, and they are representing the school when they put on the uniform. Don't need a bunch of disgruntled parents or past players to ruin that image.

Sorry for the Rant.

 

[Trillium]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

Black Widow, I respect your right to express your opinion and I appreciate hearing your point of view. However, I think it is important to make sure cited data is accurate as anything less may weaken one’s creditability needlessly. In an effort to bring some clarity to this discussion, I compared rosters of players and assistant coaches as well as overall records listed on www.collegehockeystats.net for the last five years. Here is what I gleaned:

Year Records Conf Non-Conf Overall
03-04 Overall 12- 5- 1 6- 6- 1 18-11- 2
04-05 Overall 11- 8- 1 4- 7- 1 15-15- 2
05-06 Overall 10- 6- 4 5- 7- 1 15-13- 5
06-07 Overall 6-15- 1 4- 2- 1 10-17- 2
07-08 Overall 4-14- 4 1- 5- 1 5-19- 5
08-09 Overall 6-16- 0 1- 5- 1 7-21- 1
09-10 Overall 0- 3- 1 1- 1- 0 1- 4- 1

During this time, 25 players have left the program prematurely. During the same time, Brown has had nine assistant coaches: Jon Guiffre, Ryan Stone, Ali Kenney, Shannon Kennedy,Dawn Loomis, Heather Reinke, Edith Zimmering, Sean Coady and Jill McInnis.

The Head Coach ultimately is responsible for the recruitment of players, hiring and retaining of assistants as well as the development and future of the program. All of the above data suggests a review and change is warranted. I admire the commitment of all the student-athletes both current and past, and wish only the best for each and every one of them.

It seems you are suggesting Black Widow is wrong that the escalation in premature departures of players is related to the influence of the current asst coach. You indicate there have been 25 in total over the years. How is this broken out by year? How does it compare to other Ivy programs over the same period?

Everyone knows Brown's record has declined in recent years as you have detailed. As discussed in a previous thread, that alone though is not necessarily indicative of a coaching problem/need for change, given a variety of significant funding issues at Brown affecting both recruitment and support. Further, due to the impact of particularly strong or weak recruiting classes, many programs do go through periods of a few seasons of ebb and flow of their records as the impact of such classes is felt in a particular program.

What if any data exists to support that the problems in the program are growing despite more recently improving financial support, or that they relate specifically to coaching, rather than to finances or talent base?

 

[Trillium]

Re: Brown Women's hockey coaching problems

I think the defections could also be related to the large teams that Brown tends to have. For instance, last year, there were 28 players on the team, which means each game 8 sat. This is an extremely large number and I wouldn't be surprised to see a large number leave after the year.

Regarding the rest of it, I think you are being quite naive. This isn't peewee hockey where a coach is being judged solely on his/her wins and losses. On the surface, it may seem that it is all about that, but there is so much more. How many students does the coach bring into the college (based on the roster size, Digit is quite a good recruiter), how many students brought in actually graduate (seems also pretty high if the students stay at Brown even after they leave the team), how academically suited the students are for Brown (see previous comment), how the coach deals with issues, etc. These may all outweigh wins and losses in the administrations mind.

The beauty about this country (and the education system) is it is a free market. If you (or your daughter) are that unhappy with the coach, then leave. There are plenty of other places that your daughter may be able to go where winning is the most important goal. However, if you choose to stay, then just shut up. You are doing nothing to help the team. The pressures on these students are already high enough, they shouldn't be forced to also take care of their parents.

One of the best posts I have read on this forum in a long time.