Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

[irishbridie49]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

First, let's correct the notion that the original parent whom I'm talking about came here to vent about the team's performance. Please re-read those threads (there were several) and understand that the parent started calling for the coach's head before the season even started. She was upset that certain players didn't make the team and that her daughter was relegated to ride the pine most of the time. To her, this was a reason to call for a coach's head. Yes, the team performed poorly giving her further ammo, but she clearly came loaded for bear before the ice for the first game hardened. That is not venting. That is a vendetta.

Lots of other folks jumped on the bandwagon, pointing out the obvious (the w/l record) and supporting this hockey parent who can't let go.

I will agree that this year's team (at least on paper although I'll accept your assessment) is more talented than last year's. Also note that it is young. So that parent who was complaining about who was cut and who was relegated to the bench, clearly was looking for a return to the less talented players (only so much ice time to go around). So a decision was made to go young and regrow the team around these players, sacrificing experience in the college game (definitely not like playing club, prep, or HS hockey) in the short term and that is reflected in what you saw on the ice. They have to learn to play the college game and how to win at the college game.

As to the support of the administration, it is quite appearant that nothing has been given to the program in terms of getting talent admitted (who would need extra help with admissions) for a number of years. I can't speak to the help necessary to land this class, but I doubt Digit even contacted a certain top player who is doing a PG year who missed out on 2 Ivies because she probably didn't have a tip to give (unlike a certain school that used its tip on another player). I can't say that this player had a liking to Brown or not, but nobody even mentioned the possibility, which tells me that Brown didn't have admission to offer. And when you don't have admissions help to offer, you don't even attempt to land the big fish. I think that speaks volume to the lack of support from the administration.

Bottom line, the poster who started this discussion last year wasn't here to lend insight based upon her knowledge of the game and what she was seeing at games that hadn't even been played yet. She was here to sabotage a coach who hadn't even gotten the girls into a season because her favorite players weren't selected for the team or put on a top line. Those who supported her in this effort (and they are still currently posting) in my book have no more class than that parent.

What's with the dissertations? Sounds like an attempt at self-preservation too!

 

[dontyelldad]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

Newbie B, good job w this thread.

Unfortunately, it's devolved back to the level of last year's threads.

Time to start a new one, I think.

"Coach has got to go" posters, have fun with that.

Won't do any good. Will probably hurt your kids (if that's your thing) or the program, but what the hey? Go for it.

Newbie B, see you on the next, Positive Bears thread.

I'm done with this one.

 

[Dad09]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

First, let's correct the notion that the original parent whom I'm talking about came here to vent about the team's performance...Those who supported her in this effort (and they are still currently posting) in my book have no more class than that parent.

I read the opening salvos last year. I actually agree with your assessment of the person who started things rolling. Believe I mentioned above that I knew who it was, that a lot of people could figure it out easily, and that it was a very, very ill-advised campaign that I think cost dearly, (though I'm not certain of that).

However, it doesn't follow that the other parent posters have the same motivation as the the original parent. I don't see it. They DO have the perspective of more than a years play.

Look, something is obviously wrong. Blaming the administration doesn't fly. The talent is there. Young or not, they should be taking some of these games.

Anyway, I've gotten sidetracked from the reason why I put my 2 cents in at first. That was to answer a posters question with the observation that if the parents were allowed to vent without getting jumped on - whether the jumper feels justified or not - the thread last year wouldn't have gotten so combative (or so long for that matter) and this year's thread wouldn't have been irretrievably sidetracked from NewbieBear's good intent. Everyone loses.

I've said my piece.

 

[hcky85]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

Bottom line, the poster who started this discussion last year wasn't here to lend insight based upon her knowledge of the game and what she was seeing at games that hadn't even been played yet. She was here to sabotage a coach who hadn't even gotten the girls into a season because her favorite players weren't selected for the team or put on a top line. Those who supported her in this effort (and they are still currently posting) in my book have no more class than that parent.

Everyone familiar with the team didn't expect them to perform well that season. The parent's favorite players weren't cut. Digit cut the second best forward on the team, after the best forward already quit, and cut one of the top two defensemen and another solid senior. So I don't know why you historically like bringing up one of Digit's most obviously questionable decisions.

 

[hcky85]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

I will agree that this year's team (at least on paper although I'll accept your assessment) is more talented than last year's. Also note that it is young. So that parent who was complaining about who was cut and who was relegated to the bench, clearly was looking for a return to the less talented players (only so much ice time to go around). So a decision was made to go young and regrow the team around these players, sacrificing experience in the college game (definitely not like playing club, prep, or HS hockey) in the short term and that is reflected in what you saw on the ice. They have to learn to play the college game and how to win at the college game.

You're not getting it.

People are always saying well Brown's really young this year and it's true. But Brown will be young forever though because Digit rather play freshmen over her own upper classmen that she's been developing for three plus years. That's not just something happening this year. It happens every year, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[dontyelldad]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

My vote: Don't delete the thread. Enough value to preserve what little actual "debate" there was. (I'm a free speech guy, just not a "dump coach" guy).

But lock it: Too far from the original intent of the thread to continue, and plenty of opportunity for "dump coach" and "go Bears" threads to be started/continued....

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

Everyone familiar with the team didn't expect them to perform well that season. The parent's favorite players weren't cut. Digit cut the second best forward on the team, after the best forward already quit, and cut one of the top two defensemen and another solid senior. So I don't know why you historically like bringing up one of Digit's most obviously questionable decisions.

OK, remember my issue has been with the parent calling for the coach's firing before the season gets rolling. You seem to be one supporting the concept of the ends justifying the means as you seem to support the parental undermining of a coach before a season starts. Not getting into the specifics of the players cut, the fact that she was complaining about coach's decision as a parent is a problem in my book. Even if I agreed with the assessment, I can't bring myself to give support to such a hockey parent's actions.

We don't know why the players were cut. As fans, we can discuss that as long as we don't get into stuff that gets too personal, as these kids do deserve a little bit of space. As parent's, we should keep our mouths shut on such matters no matter how much we agree because we are bringing shame on everyone associated with the program when we do so anonymously.

I could have even accepted that parent if her daughter had decided to leave the team because of how it was run and decided to discuss why. The daughter chose to skate the season (it wasn't like she had a scholarship at stake), so she clearly decided that it was worth playing for Digit. Why a mother would undermine a daughter's decision (I don't think the daughter was out to take down Digit) and potentially her season is beyond me.

 

[hcky85]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

My vote: Don't delete the thread. Enough value to preserve what little actual "debate" there was. (I'm a free speech guy, just not a "dump coach" guy).

But lock it: Too far from the original intent of the thread to continue, and plenty of opportunity for "dump coach" and "go Bears" threads to be started/continued....

Jdubbs, if you're "just not a dump coach" type does the make you like a pro Hitler type… like you just go along with who ever has the authority no matter how wrong everything is that they’re doing.

 

[hcky85]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

Not getting into the specifics of the players cut, the fact that she was complaining about coach's decision as a parent is a problem in my book. Even if I agreed with the assessment, I can't bring myself to give support to such a hockey parent's actions.

But the thing is people do know the specifics. Allegedly the coaches had a problem with one player and before tryouts were already planning on cutting that player. Somehow word traveled to Dig that these two other girls were suspected to quit if the initial player got cut because it would be a complete bush league move by the coaches. Digit’s solution was cut all three.

Someone please name another player that Digit has ever cut in the history of her coaching at Brown. It hasn’t happened.

I think that might have ****ed a few people off enough to come on here to vent, especially when these were good players. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

Jdubbs, if you're "just not a dump coach" type does the make you like a pro Hitler type… like you just go along with who ever has the authority no matter how wrong everything is that they’re doing.

This post would lend support to voting to delete the thread.

I'm still undecided. The parent who wishes to undermine the coach and her minions will find plenty of avenues to bring disrepute to Brown regardless of the result. If newbiebear chooses to delete the thread, he eliminates much good effort along with the other stuff (my apologies for feeding the issue, I held out for a long time...). I wouldn't blame him, but feel he would feel defeated in his efforts. If he can get a moderator to lock the thread and chooses to continue his work in another thread, it won't be long until it happens again. If he just abandons it to the current discussion and lets the free speech movement take over the entire effort, he too has lost.

Quite frankly, I'm not seeing too many options that will give Brown supporters a place to lend encouragement to each other during these difficult times without attracting the haters. My sympathies to Newbiebear.

 

[hcky85]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

This post would lend support to voting to delete the thread.

Sorry, I didn't realize I was the first person to make a joke on this forum or a historical reference.

 

[hcky85]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

This post would lend support to voting to delete the thread.

If newbiebear chooses to delete the thread, he eliminates much good effort along with the other stuff (my apologies for feeding the issue, I held out for a long time...). I wouldn't blame him, but feel he would feel defeated in his efforts. If he can get a moderator to lock the thread and chooses to continue his work in another thread, it won't be long until it happens again. If he just abandons it to the current discussion and lets the free speech movement take over the entire effort, he too has lost.


Quite frankly, I'm not seeing too many options that will give Brown supporters a place to lend encouragement to each other during these difficult times without attracting the haters. My sympathies to Newbiebear.

Alright 1) Why are you and the other guy trying to convince NewbieBear to delete the thread or get it locked. A lot of actual talk was occuring and still is. I don't get why someone would delete a thread that has no reason to be.

And 2) Everyone posting here is a supporter of Brown with the exception of you and dontyelldad. Did you watch the game tonight? I'm guessing no. So you probably don't know that individually they looked really good tonight, team wise and system wise they looked terrible. Watch a game and you'll see coaching is the problem here not talent or recruits.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

Alright 1) Why are you and the other guy trying to convince NewbieBear to delete the thread or get it locked. A lot of actual talk was occuring and still is. I don't get why someone would delete a thread that has no reason to be.

And 2) Everyone posting here is a supporter of Brown with the exception of you and dontyelldad. Did you watch the game tonight? I'm guessing no. So you probably don't know that individually they looked really good tonight, team wise and system wise they looked terrible. Watch a game and you'll see coaching is the problem here not talent or recruits.

Interesting that you seem to delete the sentence from my quote that said I was undecided on the matter and then turn around and accuse me of trying to sway the argument in one particular direction. It would seem that even when I give unbiased analysis of a situation, you seem to twist my words. I guess that goes along with supporting a parent who is undermining her daughter's team...

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

Sorry, I didn't realize I was the first person to make a joke on this forum or a historical reference.

The difference was that my unintentional comment about being "loaded for bear" was found to be amusing.

 

[hcky85]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

Interesting that you seem to delete the sentence from my quote that said I was undecided on the matter and then turn around and accuse me of trying to sway the argument in one particular direction. It would seem that even when I give unbiased analysis of a situation, you seem to twist my words. I guess that goes along with supporting a parent who is undermining her daughter's team...

The rest of your quote that I gave explains how your unbiased so I really didn't cut out one side of your argument.

But still not important... do have anything to say about the actual Brown team?

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

The rest of your quote that I gave explains how your unbiased so I really didn't cut out one side of your argument.

But still not important... do have anything to say about the actual Brown team?

Can you understand that using the rest of the quote is taking those statements out of context. I am still undecided about the best way for Newbiebear to handle this thread. It is his choice to delete it. I was simply trying to look at how any of his actions would not change the negative nature of so many posts in threads he starts, as you and the others have clearly ignored his polite requests to keep the comments on THIS thread POSITIVE.

As to things to say about the team, I'm hoping for some improved results down in the final weeks of the season and supporters who will support the girls by staying positive in all posting about their games.

 

[hcky85]

Re: First weekend is in the books

Re: First weekend is in the books

As to things to say about the team, I'm hoping for some improved results down in the final weeks of the season and supporters who will support the girls by staying positive in all posting about their games.

So does that mean you do not watch the games and yet you feel obligated to decide what's appropriate to discuss about the team and what's actually wrong with the team?

It just seems if you were watching these games you'd be having a different reaction.

 

[irishbridie49]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

Once again, disagree with the pro-coach water-carriers and they want to censure you. One would think at this stage of his life, that free speech would reign supreme. This poll is a joke.

 

[WHckyFan]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

However, it doesn't follow that the other parent posters have the same motivation as the the original parent. I don't see it. They DO have the perspective of more than a years play.

Look, something is obviously wrong. Blaming the administration doesn't fly. The talent is there. Young or not, they should be taking some of these games.

I completely agree with Dad09. There are certainly some posters on this forum that have a personal vendetta against the coaching staff to carry out, but there are others, such as myself, that hold the same opinon that Brown strongly needs to consider a coaching change because it is in the best intersted of the team and the program. It would be a shame to shut down the forum for these people who want to have an intelligent discussion on the positives and negatives that a new coaching change could bring. If you do not want to participate in the vendetta coach bashing, then simply ignore the posts of those you believe have this agenda. These people would have nothing to respond to if those of you who are against a coaching change didn't continue to reply.

Personally, I believe that there are two main reasons that a coaching change is needed to turn Brown's program around:

1) There is no player development happening. Brown is bringing in talented freshman year after year, and they are not improving and reaching the potential they have. This is a coaching issue- a great coach knows how to motivate each individual player differently. Not every player is the same, some respond best to yelling and screaming while others need constant support and encouragement. It is evident that the coaching staff at Brown cannot figure this out and instead of inspiring passion and in their players so that they want to be on the ice everyday learning and getting better they are doing the opposite. Which brings me to my second point...

2) The Brown Women's Hockey culture has hit a point where there is no more "fun" in the game. By the time these girls are seniors they have completely lost their love for the game. I know this happens to a number of girls who play college hockey, but it appears to be more prominant at Brown. The seniors over the past 3 or 4 years couldn't wait for the season to end so that hockey could be fun again. Many have not put on skates since. The Brown women's alumni hockey game is lucky to get a handful of players, and those that are there were motivated to go to hang out with their old teammates, not to play in the game. There is something about the way the program is being run that is destroying the girls motivation to play, and turning it into a job rather than something they love to do.

Brown Hockey needs new coaches who will develop players and promote a passionate culture where the girls look forward to going to practice day after day instead of joking around on their walk to the rink that they hope they get hit by a car so that they have an excuse not to go.

Newbie B I think it is great that you started this forum to promote Brown Women's Hockey. I love the enthusiasm and passion that you want to bring to the team, it is exactly what the team needs, but I regret to inform you that the Brown parents have played this role for years, and it hasn't been able to change the culture yet. I would just hate to see your daughter go through the same cycle that all other recent players have and lose her desire to play because it is really too bad after all the years the girls have poured their heart and soul into hockey. In my opinion the only way to stop this from happening is to push for a coaching change.

If anyone has a different opinion on these points I would love to hear them.

 

[ARM]

Re: Brown Bears 2010 - 2011 - Dawn of a new Era

There is not an "other" option in the poll, so here is my poll response.

I think that the title of this thread should be changed to "Discussion of the Problems with Brown Hockey". I realize that the creator of this thread had a different purpose in mind, but the thread was hijacked long ago, and the posts that are on the title topic are now few and far between. The people that want to indict or defend Coach Murphy can have their forum for doing so and continue to discuss administrative support, coaching strengths and weaknesses, players that left or were removed from the roster in past seasons, and all the other questions that get the posting juices flowing in a way that mere hockey games cannot inspire.

In the meantime, if Newbie Bear or any other Brown fan wishes to do so, he or she should be able to start a new season thread WITHOUT all of this other extraneous discussion that has little to do with the 2010-2011 Bears. The Brown fans should have a place to talk about Brown players that are having nice seasons or an upcoming game or charity event without that discussion being buried under an avalanche of old, unresolved arguments. And this will only work if people agree to this common courtesy, because we should not need a moderator to babysit us.