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BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

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Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

I was born in NY, and love the city but I have always hated how NY baseball has become so much of the national memory. Thomson and Branca became household names pricipally becuase they played for two New York-based teams. Had Thomson played for the St. Louis Cardinals and hit the same home run to beat the Philadelphia Phillies would that have been the "shot heard round the world?" I doubt it...
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

I was born in NY, and love the city but I have always hated how NY baseball has become so much of the national memory. Thomson and Branca became household names pricipally becuase they played for two New York-based teams. Had Thomson played for the St. Louis Cardinals and hit the same home run to beat the Philadelphia Phillies would that have been the "shot heard round the world?" I doubt it...

Boy howdy, Swami. Two points of agreement. Years ago 7/11 had a promotion involving baseball players on slurpee cups. Including "Yankee superstar Tom Tresh." TOM TRESH! Superstar? My azz.

Once at DU I got into a conversation about Joe Pepitone and Ernie Banks with a fraternity brother who thought the two of them were roughly equal. I explained the difference: Joe Pepitone is working on 500 major league hits, Ernie Banks is working on 500 major league home runs.

Ernie Banks is going to be elected to the HOF in his first year of eligibility and Joe Pepitone is free to buy a ticket for the tour any time he wants.
 
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Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

I was born in NY, and love the city but I have always hated how NY baseball has become so much of the national memory. Thomson and Branca became household names pricipally becuase they played for two New York-based teams. Had Thomson played for the St. Louis Cardinals and hit the same home run to beat the Philadelphia Phillies would that have been the "shot heard round the world?" I doubt it...

Perhaps, but (1) NYC owned baseball in the 40's and 50's and I imagine the national fan bases reflected that, (2) this was still a time when 10% of all native born American citizens were born in the 5 boroughs and 25% of all Americans had lived there at some point in their lives, and (3) "Havlicek stole the ball!" was Boston v. Philadelphia.
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

Ironically, Russ Hodges' scintillating call of the homer was only preserved because some kid recorded the end of the game at home. There were several other bigger name broadcasters covering the game nationally. Most of America never heard Hodges' call 'til after the fact.

And the home run was not exactly a titanic blast-remember the foul lines in the Polo Grounds were extremely short. What most people do not remember is that the Giants were 13+ games back as late as August 11th and their final 44 games they went 37-7 to tie for the lead. My folks were fervent iant fans-I was a very young Dodger fan:eek:
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

What most people do not remember is that the Giants were 13+ games back as late as August 11th and their final 44 games they went 37-7 to tie for the lead.

This was payback for an event 20 years earlier.

The Brooklyn Dodgers-New York Giants rivalry was real. The teams played each other twenty two times during the season and needed no media hyperbole to fuel the hatred that existed among the players and the fans. The teams were natural rivals since they played in the same city, within a few miles of each other. The Giants, led by John McGraw, dominated the National League from the early 1900s until the early 1920s, but Brooklyn won pennants in 1916 and 1920. The Giants and Yankees were also fierce rivals, sharing the Polo Grounds until 1923, and playing each other in the 1921, 1922, and 1923 World Series, but once the Yankees moved to Yankee Stadium, the competition with the Giants cooled a little and soon it became the Giants and Dodgers loathing each other.

The Giants had won the World Series in 1933, and during the off season, their manager, Bill Terry, fanned the flames of discontent with some remarks that have becomes classic baseball quotes. On January 24, the New York Herald Tribune reported that Terry, while being interviewed by reporters, said that "Pittsburgh, St. Louis and Chicago will be the teams we'll have to beat. I don't think the Braves will do as well as they did last year." Terry was then asked "Do you fear the Dodgers?" He responded, "I was just wondering whether they were still in the league." Remember, this was 1934 and individuals spoke freely, without weighing the impact their words might have or the consequences that might follow. The New York Evening Post (many New York newspapers published an early afternoon edition, an early evening edition, and then a late night edition) reported that:

"Colonel William Terry, young manager of the world champion Giants, seems to have awakened the Dodgers, club and fans alike, from their long winter hibernation. And the Dodgers have awakened like a hungry bear, demanding to know just what Memphis Bill meant by his uncomplimentary remark about the Dodgers still being in the league. In a gabfest yesterday with baseball writers, Terry was asked if he feared the Dodgers. His whimsical reply was: 'I was just wondering whether they were still in the league.'"

"If Bill thought this would go unchallenged in Brooklyn, he was guessing wrong, for Bob Quinn, business manager of the Brooklyn club, has countered with a stinging rebuke. When apprised of Terry's remark, Bob said: 'I doubt very much if Terry made that remark, but if he did, it ill befits a manager of a championship ball club, particularly a manager who was so thin-skinned himself that he was very much perturbed about writers picking his team to finish last in 1933.' And the Brooklyn club may fool Mr. Terry by being the team to prevent him from repeating his triumph of last year. At least, we'll let him know we are still in the league."

Bill Terry was blunt, outspoken, and would not cater to sportswriters. Much resentment was created when he insisted on not giving the writers his private telephone number, which is amazing. It was a different society in many ways in 1934, but a constant has been the media's belief that all aspects of a public figure's life belong to the public. They don't. They belong to the public figure. Many wise, older individuals have learned discretion. Terry's words came back to haunt him as the 1934 pennant race reached its thrilling climax. With two games left in the season, the Giants led the Cardinals by one game. Brooklyn had been out of it for most of the season.

September 27, 1934 was a day off for the Giants but the Cardinals beat the Reds to pull within ½ game of the Giants. The teams were tied in the loss column but the Giants had played and won one more game. The Giants were again off on September 28 and the Cardinals again beat the Reds to gain a tie for first place. Brooklyn visited the Polo Grounds on the last two days of the season while the Cardinals continued their series at home against the Reds.

September 30 was a rainy day in New York. Much doubt existed with respect to whether or not the game would be played. About 3,000 fans, most of them apparently Brooklyn fans seeking revenge, were camped out at the Polo Grounds at 12:30 P.M., hoping to see a game. The gates opened at 2 P.M and about 12,000 of what would eventually become a crowd of 14,000 got into the ball park. Brooklyn fans were the majority in the Polo Grounds' lower stands, ranging from third base around to the Brooklyn dugout, where one could find Brooklyn manager Charles Dillon Stengel, who would make his mark in another of New York City's boroughs a few years later. Before the game started, Stengel received a telegram containing fifty signatures. The message was simply "You'll win the undying gratitude of Brooklyn fans if you knock Bill Terry and his Giants on their backs."

Stengel read the telegram aloud and shouted, "This calls for a special meeting." He asked the reporters to leave the clubhouse, held his meeting, the rain let up, the game was played, and Brooklyn fans had some revenge. In St .Louis, Paul Dean won his nineteenth game as the Cardinals defeated the Reds to gain sole possession of first place with only Sunday's game left. When Sunday's games were over, some of the Cardinals, during their pennant celebration, shouted that Brooklyn was still in the league. With improved weather, 45,000 fans had filled the Polo Grounds to capacity. In the first inning, the Giants opened up a four run lead which was transformed to a 5-3 lead as the Brooklyns came to bat in the eighth inning. They scored twice to tie the game. Almost simultaneously, the Polo Grounds scoreboard operator posted a big "3" in the Cardinals fourth inning, giving the team from St. Louis a 5-0 lead behind Dizzy Dean, who was going for this thirtieth win of the season.

The game in New York remained 5-5 when Brooklyn came to bat in the tenth inning of the last game of the season for both teams. Sam Leslie singled, Tony Cuccinello doubled him to third, and Bill Terry brought in Carl Hubbell to face Brooklyn relief pitcher Johnny Babich. Hubbell struck out Babich and then intentionally passed third baseman Johnny Stripp to load the bases with one out, bringing up catcher Al Lopez, who many years later, as the Indians manager in 1954, would break Casey Stengel's streak of winning five consecutive pennants. But this is then and that was yet to be. Hubbell got Lopez to hit a ground ball to Giants' shortstop Blondie Ryan but the usually reliable Ryan bobbled the ball, Brooklyn went ahead, scored two more runs, and the Cardinals won the pennant.
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

And the home run was not exactly a titanic blast-remember the foul lines in the Polo Grounds were extremely short. What most people do not remember is that the Giants were 13+ games back as late as August 11th and their final 44 games they went 37-7 to tie for the lead. My folks were fervent iant fans-I was a very young Dodger fan:eek:

If it makes you feel better as a Dodger fan, the Giants stole signs the whole time. ;) (although I believe Thomson said he did not steal the sign on Branca's pitch).

Impressive fact about NY baseball: From 1949-1964, every World Series except one included a New York team (and the one that didn't had the Dodgers - in LA). SIX of those Series had TWO New York teams.
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

Let's not forget that Durocher and the Giants were stealing signals. Oops, Jen beat me to the punch.
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

And the home run was not exactly a titanic blast-remember the foul lines in the Polo Grounds were extremely short. What most people do not remember is that the Giants were 13+ games back as late as August 11th and their final 44 games they went 37-7 to tie for the lead. My folks were fervent iant fans-I was a very young Dodger fan:eek:

Two stadiums I wish I could have seen in person: The Polo Grounds and Shibe Park. I didn't realize how close the Polo Grounds was to Yankee Stadium until I saw an old picture in a baseball stadium book. Likes to be about a driver and a short wedge to me....
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

Impressive fact about NY baseball: From 1949-1964, every World Series except one included a New York team (and the one that didn't had the Dodgers - in LA). SIX of those Series had TWO New York teams.


There is something deeply and inherently evil about that...:mad:
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

Two stadiums I wish I could have seen in person: The Polo Grounds and Shibe Park. I didn't realize how close the Polo Grounds was to Yankee Stadium until I saw an old picture in a baseball stadium book. Likes to be about a driver and a short wedge to me....

I have relatives who grew up in the city. If both teams were in town and the wind was blowing right you could hear one crowd from the other stadium.
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

Fun bit of trivia: Who was on deck when Thomson hit the home run? (never knew this until I read it this year)
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

There is something deeply and inherently evil about that...:mad:

The world is divided into two groups: those who love the Yankees and the rest of us, who would root for a team of sonderkommandos against them.
I'll always love Bill Mazeroski.
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

The world is divided into two groups: those who love the Yankees and the rest of us, who would root for a team of sonderkommandos against them.
I'll always love Bill Mazeroski.

There is a sizable third group of us who don't give a crap about the Yankees either way. I'd root for them in a WS against a "fake" team (Marlins, Rockies, D'Backs) or a despised team (Braves), but otherwise I'd probably root for NY. They're like the Rangers. Meh.
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

Didn't Branca and Thompson become pretty good friends and make joint appearances (and a couple of bucks) telling their stories in later years?
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

Didn't Branca and Thompson become pretty good friends and make joint appearances (and a couple of bucks) telling their stories in later years?

Yes. At first Branca was crushed, then humiliated (there's a famous photo of him crying in the locker room), then bitter and nasty. But I believe Thompson won him over with kindness and sympathy and they made a fair amount of cash signing autographs and doing the borscht belt later in life. It's really a sweet story.
 
Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

Two stadiums I wish I could have seen in person: The Polo Grounds and Shibe Park. I didn't realize how close the Polo Grounds was to Yankee Stadium until I saw an old picture in a baseball stadium book. Likes to be about a driver and a short wedge to me....

There is a slight remnant of the polo grounds that's still around near 155th street....click the link below and scroll down about halfway until you get to the second photo of an old staircase,,,,
http://forgotten-ny.com/STREET SCENES/155thstreet/155.html

Shibe Park, in a rather grim urban ghetto neighborhood in North Philly, was my first ballpark visit, and what I remember most was the my dad paying off the neighborhood kids to "watch your car, Mister". I didn't quite understand (I was five) why those kids got paid to watch my Dad's car. Seemed like a great gig for a kid....:eek: My father later told me that the kids would destroy his car if they weren't paid, I got my first understanding of "extortion"...

Today, shibe park has been replaced by a huge church and it's parking lot. Pictures here (scroll down)

http://www.projectballpark.org/history/nl/shibe.html
 
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Re: BRING OUT YOUR DEAD (Part Whatever)

Ernie Harwell did the TV broadcast that day.

Red Barber and Gordon McClendan on radio. McClendan later became a big deal station owner who one time took the entire staff of a station out to lunch where he announced he had fired them all and changed the locks. More coffee?
 
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