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Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

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Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Wales and Northern Ireland don't count anymore?

I can't claim citizenship in Wales or Ireland, so no. :p

Once Scotland leaves there's no UK anymore. The EU can admit England as a new nation.
But why would the EU want England back as a full member? Even if in a decade or more the EU decided to invite them back, England won't get the same deal it got before. Keep its own currency? That's a hard no. Stay separate from the Schengen Area? Another hard no. The EU will be more likely to grant England a deal similar to Norway or Switzerland: you have access to our markets but you have to abide by our rules - and BTW, you have no voice in determining those rules. That should make the xenophobes very happy.

Hence my suggestion that Labour throw it completely to the Cons and let them fail.
Except that will never happen, so...
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Comment please?

The Scottish National Party has come round to the idea that Jeremy Corbyn may shortly have to become temporary caretaker prime minister, in order to prevent a no-deal Brexit on 31 October and immediately afterwards hold a general election.

A source close to the SNP leadership tells me that Ian Blackford, leader of the SNP in Westminster, and Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland's First Minister, are deeply concerned that it may now be impossible to prevent a no deal Brexit unless Boris Johnson is removed from office.

Does the source know the territory?

Also: I am strangely attracted to Nicola Sturgeon for some reason which is definitely not looks. It may be the accent. Dr. Mrs. is Scottish but has no accent, that b-tch!
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Comment please?



Does the source know the territory?

The math on this is kinda tricky. Even if every Labour MP (247) and SNP (35) and all the other smaller groups (except Lib Dem and DUP) were with them that gets them to 292. Backing Corbyn would be politically challenging for the Lib Dems (18) and the DUP (10). What about those 34 "Independent" MPs? Granted, they hate BoJo but they have no love for Corbyn either. The 288 Tories are united on one thing: They despise Corbyn and will never vote for him. As I recall, the magic number is 322.

Although more messy, it might make more sense for them to elect Ken Clarke instead.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

I feel like this could’ve been avoided by having the UK win Eurovision once or twice in the past two decades...
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

The queen has asked her advisers what the Constitutional process is for her to dismiss BoJo.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

The English refuse to Brexit, but will they now accept their place? We still don't know if Johnson will go to jail or not, but it seems certain that the UK will ask for a delay. And then Brexit will not happen anymore. But the question here is how can we get the English to accept their vote is equal to those in Slovenia, Finland, Greece, Portugal, Malta, etc? Because this seems to be the main reason for leaving. They cannot accept an equal representation of European democracy because they feel superior. I and my friend at Apknite are debating about it.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

The English refuse to Brexit, but will they now accept their place? We still don't know if Johnson will go to jail or not, but it seems certain that the UK will ask for a delay. And then Brexit will not happen anymore.

Credit where it's due: 10 days ago Billy Bragg predicted this exactly during his show at the Birchmere.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

The Tory Conference in Manchester has been eventful! An MP got into a fist fight, had the police summoned and was sent home. We learned that it was the Tory government, not Labour, who brought forward the NHS. The Tories, of course, voted in lockstep against the formation of the NHS, except on the final vote when a single Tory MP voted in favor...so naturally it is a Tory idea. The Tories also promised 40 new hospitals! Except they didn't...they promised to "refurbish" six hospitals (which all happen to be in 50/50 constituencies). But the big thing everyone is focused on is Brexit. Overnight, a paper was leaked which was supposedly the British plan for the Irish border. A series of checkpoints 10 miles away from the actual border. This was a non-starter, and was quickly rejected by the EU, and subsequently BoJo claimed he had no idea what those "non-papers" were on about since they don't represent his plans. He wants a "roaming" border check with no physical infrastructure. That's a recipe for disaster which the Irish have already rejected.

BoJo just wrapped up his 40 minute speech to the delegates. I don't have the stomach to watch it all, but The Guardian viewers described it as "A load of nonsense" and summed it up pretty well.

Just tried watching the speech. Within about 30 seconds, I decided it was either persevere and risk the integrity of my laptop, or switch off. I switched off. Beyond execrable. What a pitiful people we have become, when a significant percentage of the population buys this offensive disingenuousness, delivered by a preening, entitled man-child.
So Johnson’s solution to avoid a border on the island of Ireland is to place two borders ... you literally could not make this up. As for his statement that: “I am afraid that after three and a half years people are beginning to feel that they are being taken for fools,” is untrue, Boris, people aren’t beginning to feel like they are being taken for fools, people know they have been taken in by fools, the most foolish Macfoolfaced fools the world has possibly ever seen. There are no adequate words to describe the depth of your foolishness.
Enough. This is just ridiculous. We need a National unity government now – to negotiate something sensible with the EU and then put it to the public in a referendum with an option to remain. Where are you? Labour? Lib Dems? SNP?

The official Guardian story is still giving live updates as parts of his plan are released.

Jeremy Corbyn has already called it worse than Theresa May's deal. Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says she thinks BoJo's plan is "designed to fail."

Also, BoJo said that if the EU doesn't accept his plan he won't bother going to the EU summit on 17 October. (To which every leader in Europe thought, "Wonderful news!")
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

First official EU response to BoJo's plan

President Juncker welcomed Prime Minister Johnson’s determination to advance the talks ahead of the October European Council and make progress towards a deal. He acknowledged the positive advances, notably with regards to the full regulatory alignment for all goods and the control of goods entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain. However, the president also noted that there are still some problematic points that will need further work in the coming days, notably with regards to the governance of the backstop. The delicate balance struck by the Good Friday agreement must be preserved. Another concern that needs to be addressed are the substantive customs rules. He also stressed that we must have a legally operational solution that meets all the objectives of the backstop: preventing a hard border, preserving north-south cooperation and the all-island economy, and protecting the EU’s single market and Ireland’s place in it.

President Juncker confirmed to Prime Minister Johnson that the commission will now examine the legal text objectively, and in light of our well-known criteria.

The EU wants a deal. We remain united and ready to work 24/7 to make this happen – as we have been for over three years now.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

However, the president also noted that there are still some problematic points that will need further work

I don't typically associate the Germans with understatement, if you know what I mean.

Edit: Ah, he's Luxembourgian. Point withdrawn.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

The NI portion of BoJo's Brexit plan, with commentary by the Guardian

The Northern Ireland assembly would have to vote for Northern Ireland to stay in the all-island regulatory zone - before it took effect from January 2021 (when the transition period is due to end) and every four years afterwards. Johnson says in his letter.
This regulatory zone must depend on the consent of those affected by it. This is essential to the acceptability of arrangements under which part of the UK accepts the rules of a different political entity. It is fundamental to democracy. We are proposing that the Northern Ireland executive and assembly should have the opportunity to endorse those arrangements before they enter into force, that is, during the transition period, and every four years afterwards. If consent is not secured, the arrangements will lapse. The same should apply to the single electricity market, which raises the same principles.

This is an essential element of the proposal, but there are at least three potential drawbacks. First, there is no power-sharing executive at the moment, because it has been suspended for nearly three years. Second, this would give the DUP a veto; they would have the power to take NI out of the arrangements. (So would Sinn Fein, but they would not want to do that.) And, third, as the government briefing earlier revealed (see 4.16pm), it is not very clear what would happen if the NI assembly did vote to abandon the arrangement. After a year NI would default to “existing rules”, but that begs the question as to what new arrangements might be needed at the border.

Johnson accepts that goods going between Ireland and Northern Ireland would be subject to customs rules, but he claims there would be no need for checks at or near the border. In his letter he says:
We are proposing that all customs processes needed to ensure compliance with the UK and EU customs regimes should take place on a decentralised basis, with paperwork conducted electronically as goods move between the two countries, and with the very small number of physical checks needed conducted at traders’ premises or other points on the supply chain.

And he also also admitted that the customs arrangements for goods crossing the north/south Irish border would involve some physical checks. The explanatory note says goods would be imported or exported via a transit mechanism or a prior declaration mechanism. It does on:
Under either process the relevant customs authority will be notified that the consignment has entered their customs territory. Either mechanism would link the movement of the consignment over the border with the information provided to the customs authority, which could identify any goods requiring customs interventions. Physical checks – which would continue to be required only on a very small proportion of movements based on risk assessment – could then take place at traders’ premises or other designated locations which could be located anywhere in Ireland or Northern Ireland.

The note says there would be no need for checks to take place “at, or even near” the border. But the concern in Ireland is that customs officials and customs centres could become a target for terrorists, wherever they are.


The Guardian also has a Twitter thread by a former adviser to May. His final tweet sums it up: For all these reasons, I cannot see EU & IRE agreeing to these proposals, may not even see as basis for negotiations. I suspect they would rather gamble on an extension & election. Given I want to see UK leave with a deal, I hope I am wrong & wish Govt the best of luck.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Parliament will be prorogued next week, from the evening of 8 October until the Queen's Speech on 14 October.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

I thought the court said it wasn’t prorogued...?

It wasn't. However, it is procedure to prorogue parliament before a Queen's Speech begins a new session. It only needs to be a few days, not the five weeks BoJo wanted though.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/XZqyXXh/two-world-wars.jpg" alt="two-world-wars" border="0" height="400">

You didn't win two world wars, you wankers. We did. You were a glorified Airstrip One.

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/dWJ6cpc/two-world-wars-farage.jpg" alt="two-world-wars-farage" border="0" height="400">

That's slightly more accurate.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Forget about all that, Britain is focusing on Rooney/Vardy now.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Forget about all that, Britain is focusing on Rooney/Vardy now.

I had no idea what this meant so I went hunting. This is insanely stupid. It's even dumber than the Kardashians. Once again, the US is merely a pale shadow of its UK daddy.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

<img src="https://i.ibb.co/XZqyXXh/two-world-wars.jpg" alt="two-world-wars" border="0" height="400">

You didn't win two world wars, you wankers. We did. You were a glorified Airstrip One.

The French won WW1. The Russians won WW2. We were a glorified catering service.
 
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