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Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

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Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

The other trick is security. Now if I'm Germany, France, and the low countries. Just how interested am I in Estonias defense when it decided not to join? Even if the new EU says they are committed, will Estonia ever feel that comfortable again?

This is bigger than Penn State getting D1 hockey.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

5mn_Major said:
The other trick is security. Now if I'm Germany, France, and the low countries. Just how interested am I in Estonias defense when it decided not to join? Even if the new EU says they are committed, will Estonia ever feel that comfortable again?
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If the Scandinavians come to play, Estonia and Latvia will be safe. Lithuania is already safe because of the social and historic ties to Poland.

But I can imagine a tighter, smaller EU will push out the Balkans, Ukraine, and maybe Hungary, Romania and Slovakia. Greece and Turkey are a whole other issue.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Kepler said:
If the Scandinavians come to play, Estonia and Latvia will be safe. Lithuania is already safe because of the social and historic ties to Poland.

But I can imagine a tighter, smaller EU will push out the Balkans, Ukraine, and maybe Hungary, Romania and Slovakia. Greece and Turkey are a whole other issue.
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They probably wouldn't mind unburdening themselves of Italy either. That place has been a political mess for a few decades now, and their fiscal policy is a joke. It's Greece West, only with more votes of no confidence.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

St. Clown said:
They probably wouldn't mind unburdening themselves of Italy either. That place has been a political mess for a few decades now, and their fiscal policy is a joke. It's Greece West, only with more votes of no confidence.
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Maybe, but Italy faces west and the EU is finding that going from a common market to an integrated political entity means you need strong cultural glue.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Kepler said:
If the Scandinavians come to play, Estonia and Latvia will be safe. Lithuania is already safe because of the social and historic ties to Poland.

But I can imagine a tighter, smaller EU will push out the Balkans, Ukraine, and maybe Hungary, Romania and Slovakia. Greece and Turkey are a whole other issue.
Click to expand...

I would guess anyone already in the club is in if they want to be. That's kind of how the EU operates. Spain wants in...Spains in. Italy wants in...Italy is in. But remember these countries would give up most of their fiscal responsibility. That would be good for Italy...but giving up all sovereignty to a differing culture is tough. Perhaps a confederation along the same lines as the American south during the civil war is a decent balance. They'll have to get creative.

The Baltics are an interesting case (still own a bit of property there). I think Scandinavia would want to protect them, but there's only so much they can do without the US or giving sovereignty over to the EU. The ethnic Latvians and probably less so Estonians and Lithuanians would probably like to join to be forever secure from Russia. But it would be tough with the Russian minorities in those countries who would resist...and Russia who would see it as an opportunity to enforce Baltic neutrality. This is much more possible because of the confusion in the west.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

5mn_Major said:
I would guess anyone already in the club is in if they want to be. That's kind of how the EU operates. Spain wants in...Spains in. Italy wants in...Italy is in. But remember these countries would give up most of their fiscal responsibility. That would be good for Italy...but giving up all sovereignty to a differing culture is tough. Perhaps a confederation along the same lines as the American south during the civil war is a decent balance. They'll have to get creative.

The Baltics are an interesting case (still own a bit of property there). I think Scandinavia would want to protect them, but there's only so much they can do without the US or giving sovereignty over to the EU. The ethnic Latvians and probably less so Estonians and Lithuanians would probably like to join to be forever secure from Russia. But it would be tough with the Russian minorities in those countries who would resist...and Russia who would see it as an opportunity to enforce Baltic neutrality. This is much more possible because of the confusion in the west.
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All true. The Russian settlement of their Near Abroad was deliberate to create just this situation (anchor babushkas!). With the Russian economy in the tank Putin's popularity is based on his strong ape routine, which is scary for the Baltics.

All the more reason for the US and EU and Israel to make kissy kissy with Turkey, to give Ivan another flank to worry about.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Kepler said:
All the more reason for the US and EU and Israel to make kissy kissy with Turkey, to give Ivan another flank to worry about.
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Yeah. But that's tricky too. The one thing Turkey wants is to be in the EU or free travel to the EU or beddy bed time with the EU or somesuch. If I didn't know better, little red flags would go off in my head about bringing Turkey into the fold. But my personal experiences in Turkey would lead me to say - absolutely not.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

joecct said:
Hey Europe! 100 years is a drop on the European history bucket. Don't forget a whole generation of English youth fell on your soil to stop the Hun.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/soaring-over-the-somme-in-memory-of-my-hero-grandfather/
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Young men, soldiers, nineteen fourteen
Marching through countries they'd never seen
Virgins with rifles, a game of charades
All for a children's crusade
Pawns in the game are not victims of chance
Strewn on the fields of Belgium and France
Poppies for young men, death's bitter trade
All of those young lives betrayed
The children of England would never be slaves
They're trapped on the wire and dying in waves
The flower of England face down in the mud
And stained in the blood of a whole generation
Corpulent generals safe behind lines
History's lessons drowned in red wine
Poppies for young men, death's bitter trade
All of those young lives betrayed
All for a children's crusade
The children of England would never be slaves
They're trapped on the wire and dying in waves
The flower of England face down in the mud
And stained in the blood of a whole generation
 
ticapnews said:
Young men, soldiers, nineteen fourteen
Marching through countries they'd never seen
Virgins with rifles, a game of charades
All for a children's crusade
Pawns in the game are not victims of chance
Strewn on the fields of Belgium and France
Poppies for young men, death's bitter trade
All of those young lives betrayed
The children of England would never be slaves
They're trapped on the wire and dying in waves
The flower of England face down in the mud
And stained in the blood of a whole generation
Corpulent generals safe behind lines
History's lessons drowned in red wine
Poppies for young men, death's bitter trade
All of those young lives betrayed
All for a children's crusade
The children of England would never be slaves
They're trapped on the wire and dying in waves
The flower of England face down in the mud
And stained in the blood of a whole generation
Click to expand...

Siegfried Sassoon??
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

joecct said:
Siegfried Sassoon??
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Gordon Sumner Better known as Sting

That has been stuck in my head since last week. Not just because of the 100th anniversary of the Somme, but because of the youth reaction to the Brexit vote.

"All of those young lives betrayed..."
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

ticapnews said:
Gordon Sumner Better known as Sting

That has been stuck in my head since last week. Not just because of the 100th anniversary of the Somme, but because of the youth reaction to the Brexit vote.

"All of those young lives betrayed..."
Click to expand...

Whoa, that is crazy that the 100th anniversary of the Somme is Friday. So Britain is basically saying "**** it" and going back to Splendid Isolation.
 
French Rage said:
Whoa, that is crazy that the 100th anniversary of the Somme is Friday. So Britain is basically saying "**** it" and going back to Splendid Isolation.
Click to expand...

Britain's foreign policy back in the day was to ally itself to the #2 continental power in an attempt to hold back #1.

When the continent is trying to impose its vision of the future that may be contrary to yours, you either surrender or fight. The Leaves are fighting the diktats of Brussels.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

joecct said:
Britain's foreign policy back in the day was to ally itself to the #2 continental power in an attempt to hold back #1.

When the continent is trying to impose its vision of the future that may be contrary to yours, you either surrender or fight. The Leaves are fighting the diktats of Brussels.
Click to expand...

The young people - the ones who will have to live with this decision for the rest of their lives - wanted to stay by a 3-to-1 margin. The old fogeys who are going to be dead soon voted for a future they won't be around to suffer and that their grandkids didn't want.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

There will be chances to go back after the olds die. We're going through a transitional phase now where old and young people are living in different mental spaces. The olds have the money so right now they have the power, but literally every second that balance is changing.
 
Re: Brexit - Should I stay or should I go??

Kepler said:
There will be chances to go back after the olds die. We're going through a transitional phase now where old and young people are living in different mental spaces. The olds have the money so right now they have the power, but literally every second that balance is changing.
Click to expand...

except like everywhere else, once the youngs grow up and get money, they become the olds
 
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