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Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
- Thread starter mookie1995
- Start date
defkit
Well-known member
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
As do I. And I've noticed some of the press is starting to try to dial back expectations (someone on NHL Network radio was doing just that a couple days ago). I certainly didn't see him play that much, but I thought he looked better as a Junior than as a Senior. I was surprised he won the Hobey. With the right linemates and in the right system, I think he could have a good offensive impact right away, but not to the extent that expectations seem to have risen. And in the wrong system (and remember how quickly systems and coaches can change), I think he could end up really being a disappointment. I don't wish it on him, but it's possible.
As do I. And I've noticed some of the press is starting to try to dial back expectations (someone on NHL Network radio was doing just that a couple days ago). I certainly didn't see him play that much, but I thought he looked better as a Junior than as a Senior. I was surprised he won the Hobey. With the right linemates and in the right system, I think he could have a good offensive impact right away, but not to the extent that expectations seem to have risen. And in the wrong system (and remember how quickly systems and coaches can change), I think he could end up really being a disappointment. I don't wish it on him, but it's possible.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
Well, going to be cheap for whomever gets him.
And warren young once scored 40 playing with Mario. (So just sayin'
)
Well, going to be cheap for whomever gets him.
And warren young once scored 40 playing with Mario. (So just sayin'
)
ericredaxe
Veteran
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
I'm not sure I really agree, but you are correct that some of it is from a lack of other NHL news. Whoever gets him will only be paying entry level dollars with a very salary cap friendly contract. Everything I have read agrees he is NHL ready and many think he will be an immediate top 6 forward.
I mean, if he ends up on the Bruins who would beat him out for the top 2 lines?
If he were being drafted this year, where would he go? Top 10 for sure? Maybe top 5? So for whichever team lands him its almost like getting a "bonus" first round top 10 draft pick.
That said, I'm not predicting he will be a superstar, but the cost to potential benefit ratio is pretty good.
I'm not sure I really agree, but you are correct that some of it is from a lack of other NHL news. Whoever gets him will only be paying entry level dollars with a very salary cap friendly contract. Everything I have read agrees he is NHL ready and many think he will be an immediate top 6 forward.
I mean, if he ends up on the Bruins who would beat him out for the top 2 lines?
If he were being drafted this year, where would he go? Top 10 for sure? Maybe top 5? So for whichever team lands him its almost like getting a "bonus" first round top 10 draft pick.
That said, I'm not predicting he will be a superstar, but the cost to potential benefit ratio is pretty good.
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Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
I guess we are just far apart. Maybe you are right who knows. I am very far from being an NHL scout. But your draft estimate I take issue with.
Top 5? No freaking way. Top 10? I would almost say no way. I would peg him maybe late 1st round, maybe high 2nd round. Vesey is 23 years old. You have to take that into consideration. His prime development years have mostly passed. He is a late bloomer.
Clayton Keller just turned 18 years old and was picked #7. As long as we are talking theoreticals, if he stayed at BU for four years (LOL), you don't think he would be considerably past Vesey's level? He would still be a year+ younger than Vesey.
The more I think of this I see parallels to Matt Gilroy. A late bloomer that won a Hobey Baker Award as an older senior. There was a big NHL frenzy with him also even considering he was signed for twice as much per year as Vesey can be. He never seemed to develop much more and didn't live up to expectations. I wish the guy well and I think he will do much better than Gilroy, but I feel like we've seen this movie before. As you and mookie wrote, a big part of the attraction is that he can be had at relatively cheap money with the rookie cap.
I guess we are just far apart. Maybe you are right who knows. I am very far from being an NHL scout. But your draft estimate I take issue with.
Top 5? No freaking way. Top 10? I would almost say no way. I would peg him maybe late 1st round, maybe high 2nd round. Vesey is 23 years old. You have to take that into consideration. His prime development years have mostly passed. He is a late bloomer.
Clayton Keller just turned 18 years old and was picked #7. As long as we are talking theoreticals, if he stayed at BU for four years (LOL), you don't think he would be considerably past Vesey's level? He would still be a year+ younger than Vesey.
The more I think of this I see parallels to Matt Gilroy. A late bloomer that won a Hobey Baker Award as an older senior. There was a big NHL frenzy with him also even considering he was signed for twice as much per year as Vesey can be. He never seemed to develop much more and didn't live up to expectations. I wish the guy well and I think he will do much better than Gilroy, but I feel like we've seen this movie before. As you and mookie wrote, a big part of the attraction is that he can be had at relatively cheap money with the rookie cap.
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ericredaxe
Veteran
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
Yeah, taking a closer look top 5 is probably a stretch, but had he been available in the draft, I'd still guess top 10 or very close to it.
For comparisons, I'd say closer to Drury (had he been a free agent) than Gilroy but I'd guess his NHL career will be somewhere between the two.
Either way, the price to predicted performance ratio should be very good.
If he ends up with the Bruins, I'd feel pretty confident in saying he will be their 2nd line left wing.
Yeah, taking a closer look top 5 is probably a stretch, but had he been available in the draft, I'd still guess top 10 or very close to it.
For comparisons, I'd say closer to Drury (had he been a free agent) than Gilroy but I'd guess his NHL career will be somewhere between the two.
Either way, the price to predicted performance ratio should be very good.
If he ends up with the Bruins, I'd feel pretty confident in saying he will be their 2nd line left wing.
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
Drury is an intriguing comparison.
Drury is an intriguing comparison.
claver2010
*****
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
Devil's advocate:
Of those picked in the back half of the 1st round in his draft (2012), 6 have played a season's worth of games in the NHL (40% hit rate), 2 have scored >17 career NHL goals. And taking a cursory glance at the surrounding drafts '12 was a little better than most.
If this kid is a top 6 F (I'll leave that to the experts), teams would certainly take that over a back half of the first round pick.
Also wasn't Gilroy like 32 when he signed with the Rangers?
Devil's advocate:
Of those picked in the back half of the 1st round in his draft (2012), 6 have played a season's worth of games in the NHL (40% hit rate), 2 have scored >17 career NHL goals. And taking a cursory glance at the surrounding drafts '12 was a little better than most.
If this kid is a top 6 F (I'll leave that to the experts), teams would certainly take that over a back half of the first round pick.
Also wasn't Gilroy like 32 when he signed with the Rangers?
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
Gilroy was 24 when he signed with the Rangers, 25 when starting play.
I think he has a lot of talent, I just think the media more than anyone else, is touting him as more than what I think at least his initial impact would be. We don't know if Vesey will stick on the NHL level either. He might end up in that 60% that haven't played a full season in the NHL.
Gilroy was 24 when he signed with the Rangers, 25 when starting play.
I think he has a lot of talent, I just think the media more than anyone else, is touting him as more than what I think at least his initial impact would be. We don't know if Vesey will stick on the NHL level either. He might end up in that 60% that haven't played a full season in the NHL.
defkit
Well-known member
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
I know the rules have changed through the years. Can Vesey sign a "one-way" contract, meaning he gets his NHL salary even if sent down? Are rookies still able to sign one-way deals? I feel like I haven't heard that term as much lately, so I don't know if they are still an option.
I know the rules have changed through the years. Can Vesey sign a "one-way" contract, meaning he gets his NHL salary even if sent down? Are rookies still able to sign one-way deals? I feel like I haven't heard that term as much lately, so I don't know if they are still an option.
ericredaxe
Veteran
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
He is also a local kid so we may be hearing more about it here than anywhere else. "Local kid makes good" story sells well in the news.
He is also a local kid so we may be hearing more about it here than anywhere else. "Local kid makes good" story sells well in the news.
Friend_of_BU_Hockey
Registered User
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366
ENTRY LEVEL PLAYERS
How much can Entry Level players make?
Entry Level players will be subject to a maximum annual salary (plus signing and games played bonuses) of $850,000 for 2005 and 2006 draftees; $875,000 for 2007 and 2008 draftees; $900,000 for 2009 and 2010; and $925,000 for 2011 draftees.
The maximum combined signing bonus will be limited to 10% of the player's maximum annual compensation in any year.
Entry Level players may negotiate for performance bonuses up to a maximum of $850,000 in individual "Schedule A" bonuses per year (maximum of $212,500 per bonus). A player may also be eligible to earn individual "B" bonuses for League-wide excellence, which will, as a general matter, be paid by the League. In addition, a player will be eligible to negotiate with his club "excess" individual "B" bonuses, subject to a maximum aggregate of $2 million in any year.
How long will a player be in the Entry Level system?
Players who sign their first contract at age 18-21 are required to sign three-year Entry Level contracts; players age 22-23 will be required to sign two-year deals; and players age 24 will be required to sign a one-year Entry Level contract.
How much can unsigned players from the 2003 and 2004 Entry Drafts contract for?
Clubs may sign 2004 draftees to a maximum salary of $984,200 and 2003 draftees to a maximum salary of $942,400. These salaries are based on a 24% rollback to the maximum salary under the previous CBA for the players' respective draft years. Additionally, draftees from prior years may negotiate for a signing bonus not to exceed 30% of his maximum annual compensation. Performance bonuses may be negotiated as per new CBA rules.
My understanding is that as a 2012 draft pick and a '93 birthdate, as a UFA, Vesey can sign a 2-year/1-way contact at $925K/year, pre-bonuses described in the 2nd paragraph.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26366
ENTRY LEVEL PLAYERS
How much can Entry Level players make?
Entry Level players will be subject to a maximum annual salary (plus signing and games played bonuses) of $850,000 for 2005 and 2006 draftees; $875,000 for 2007 and 2008 draftees; $900,000 for 2009 and 2010; and $925,000 for 2011 draftees.
The maximum combined signing bonus will be limited to 10% of the player's maximum annual compensation in any year.
Entry Level players may negotiate for performance bonuses up to a maximum of $850,000 in individual "Schedule A" bonuses per year (maximum of $212,500 per bonus). A player may also be eligible to earn individual "B" bonuses for League-wide excellence, which will, as a general matter, be paid by the League. In addition, a player will be eligible to negotiate with his club "excess" individual "B" bonuses, subject to a maximum aggregate of $2 million in any year.
How long will a player be in the Entry Level system?
Players who sign their first contract at age 18-21 are required to sign three-year Entry Level contracts; players age 22-23 will be required to sign two-year deals; and players age 24 will be required to sign a one-year Entry Level contract.
How much can unsigned players from the 2003 and 2004 Entry Drafts contract for?
Clubs may sign 2004 draftees to a maximum salary of $984,200 and 2003 draftees to a maximum salary of $942,400. These salaries are based on a 24% rollback to the maximum salary under the previous CBA for the players' respective draft years. Additionally, draftees from prior years may negotiate for a signing bonus not to exceed 30% of his maximum annual compensation. Performance bonuses may be negotiated as per new CBA rules.
My understanding is that as a 2012 draft pick and a '93 birthdate, as a UFA, Vesey can sign a 2-year/1-way contact at $925K/year, pre-bonuses described in the 2nd paragraph.
Sean Pickett
2009 NCAA Champions
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
<I>(d) Draft-related Unrestricted Free Agents will be subject to the maximum annual aggregate compensation limits set forth in this Section 9.3 applicable in the Entry Draft year immediately preceding the date on which the Player signs his Entry Level SPC. Such a Player will be subject to all of the other terms and provisions of this Article 9, including without limitation, the terms of Exhibit 5 and the maximum annual Signing Bonus for a draft-related Unrestricted Free Agent will be limited to 10% of the Player's compensation in any League Year.</I>
As such he then is subject to Article 9.4:
<I>9.4 Minor League Compensation. Each SPC entered into with a Rookie in the Entry Level System shall automatically be deemed to be a "two way" SPC with a minor league salary equal
to the Paragraph 1 Minor League Salary set forth in such SPC or, if no minor league salary is set forth, the greater of (i) $35,000 and (ii) the minimum minor league salary provided for Players in
the Minors; provided, however, in no event may such an SPC provide for minor league compensation, including any bonuses for games played, greater than the amount indicated on the following chart:
2005 US$ 62,500
2006 US$ 62,500
2007 US$ 65,000
2008 US$ 65,000
2009 US$ 67,500
2010 US$ 67,500
2011 - 2022 US$ 70,000</I>
I'm no expert, but I believe Vesey is considered a rookie who will be signed under the Entry Level System.
Sean
That was the previous CBA. The current CBA appears to cover Vesey's UFA status in Article 9.3 (d):
<I>(d) Draft-related Unrestricted Free Agents will be subject to the maximum annual aggregate compensation limits set forth in this Section 9.3 applicable in the Entry Draft year immediately preceding the date on which the Player signs his Entry Level SPC. Such a Player will be subject to all of the other terms and provisions of this Article 9, including without limitation, the terms of Exhibit 5 and the maximum annual Signing Bonus for a draft-related Unrestricted Free Agent will be limited to 10% of the Player's compensation in any League Year.</I>
As such he then is subject to Article 9.4:
<I>9.4 Minor League Compensation. Each SPC entered into with a Rookie in the Entry Level System shall automatically be deemed to be a "two way" SPC with a minor league salary equal
to the Paragraph 1 Minor League Salary set forth in such SPC or, if no minor league salary is set forth, the greater of (i) $35,000 and (ii) the minimum minor league salary provided for Players in
the Minors; provided, however, in no event may such an SPC provide for minor league compensation, including any bonuses for games played, greater than the amount indicated on the following chart:
2005 US$ 62,500
2006 US$ 62,500
2007 US$ 65,000
2008 US$ 65,000
2009 US$ 67,500
2010 US$ 67,500
2011 - 2022 US$ 70,000</I>
I'm no expert, but I believe Vesey is considered a rookie who will be signed under the Entry Level System.
Sean
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
This is correct and all entry level contracts are 2-way. Players will not have to pass waivers and freely be send up or down.
This is correct and all entry level contracts are 2-way. Players will not have to pass waivers and freely be send up or down.
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
Interesting article on Jack Parker's late found fear of heights:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/08/20/hockey-legend-faces-formidable-fear/IBLmveKs9tClXqBRT7WuUJ/story.html?s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Afacebook
Interesting article on Jack Parker's late found fear of heights:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/08/20/hockey-legend-faces-formidable-fear/IBLmveKs9tClXqBRT7WuUJ/story.html?s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Afacebook
theprofromdover
The Original Dope Detector
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
That's fear of "The Heights"! ;-)
That's fear of "The Heights"! ;-)
FiveHole12
Registered User
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!!!
Sean Pickett
2009 NCAA Champions
Re: Boston University off-season thread (preparing for 16/17).
Sean
All incoming freshmen were at BU for Summer Session 2 (5 July – 12 August)So, what day is move-in day this year? I'm guessing it's this weekend... hopefully Keller will be present.
Sean