Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Not sure what year to start at, but here are some numbers from the top programs since the 1997-1998 season (BC's resurgence--is that the biggest reason?):

NCAA Appearances (13 years):

Michigan 13
North Dakota 12
Boston College 11
BU/Minnesota/Wisconsin 8
Denver 7

Frozen Fours:

Boston College 9
North Dakota 6
Michigan 5
Minnesota 3
Wisconsin/Denver 2
BU 1

National Titles:

Boston College 3
Minnesota/Denver 2
Michigan/BU/Wisconsin/UND 1

In this same period, the other national champions have been Maine and Michigan State. If you break them down:

Maine: 9 NCAA appearances, 6 Frozen Fours
Michigan State: 9 NCAA appearances, 3 Frozen Fours

So, if you were ranking these teams from 1-9 over the past 13 years (again, is BC's resurgence the biggest reason?)...

1. BC
2. Minnesota
3. Denver
4. North Dakota
5. Maine
6. Michigan
7. Michigan State
8. Wisconsin
9. BU

At this very moment, I would say BU is still in better shape than Minnesota, Maine and Michigan State. MSU's legendary coach is retiring and you could argue Minny and Maine both need coaching changes.

 

[Jofa]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I think the downfall of BU is overstated on this thread.

This team had some bad luck during the 2000-2008 stretch in question, starting with that 4OT heartbreaker against LSSU where Aufiero hit the crossbar in 3OT and missed a chance to go to the FF that season. The '01 team had terrible goaltending, thanks in part to DiPietro's early departure. The '02 team finished unexpectedly well but were beaten twice in 2 weeks by a superior Maine team to (again) miss the FF by a game. The '03 team also rode a hot Fields to get within a game of the FF but was by and large pretty mediocre.

In '05 and '06 BU made the tournament and won a HE trophy. Neither of those years can really be categorized as failures. In '05 I believed that NoDak was the better team and in '06 BC was pretty even with BU but was better on that particular day. I still believe that if '06 BU and BC play that game 100 times, each are winning 50. The '07 team was not that great but still managed an NCAA appearance and a Beanpot. '10 was marred by a slew of departures following the NC game, which should surprise no one.

The '01 to '04 teams were really hurt by a highly disappointing result from what should have been a great recruiting class (Sabo, Collins, etc.) and one that was just simply poor recruiting (Skaldany, Gregg Johnson, etc.). The former class was lauded nearly universally as being excellent, but they never developed. I suppose you can put some of that on Parker, but I felt that, in light of the fact that many players made great strides outside of that class, maybe it had more to do with the players. The latter was on a combination of Parker and Durocher, in my view. The chickens came home to roost in '04 where we were terrible, and I believe that was what paved the way for Quinn.

The '04 team was really the only team that was truly bad. '08 was disappointing based on expectations. BU was a game away from the FF 4 times in 6 years from '00 to '06 and made the tournament again in '07.

I know that everyone has their knickers in a twist because we just lost to Harvard (and because our closest rival has been playing better than BU since 2000), but this team has actually been pretty successful over the course of the past 10 years. I don't have time to see who else has had equally consistent success since then, but I don't think there are too many teams who can claim that.

And for the person who mentioned that the 1998 season was the beginning of disappointment, please first remember that the '98 team was very very good and how the graduating class in '99 was decimated by a number of things.

SLU not LSSU. In 1998 as a #1 HE seed BU lost to Merrimack in the QF and depsite still having a bye in the NCAA's lost their first game to UNH. I believe that should be considered the start of their downfall. The NCAA's are in Boston and BC takes your spot instead. If your goals are to have a good reagular season team who wins Beanpots and cant get it done in the NCAA's then I am sure you have been pleased with the past 14 years. Your recounting of the almosts and should haves pretty much proves the point that this program has failed to meet their potential. The bottom line if you go way back with the program where BU was the top program in the East for much (not all) of 30 years, their fall from the top in the past 14 years has been startling, and when your main (and in some circles hated) rival surpasses you in such dramatic and unquivocable fashion that exacerbates the problem. In Boston its now a one horse race, BC's main rivals dont play in the East anymore.

 

[Federal League]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

At this very moment, I would say BU is still in better shape than Minnesota, Maine and Michigan State.

Me too. To take this a step further, if you had to project success over the next 5-10 years, I think you'd have to have BU pretty high. Top 10 for sure. BC, Michigan, Notre Dame, Miami, North Dakota, Wisconsin and Denver are probably the only schools I'd consider putting ahead of BU. Maybe UNH, but they have that recruiting violation that's going to hurt them for the next year or two at least. Yale's in good shape now, but it's always going to be tough for an Ivy to sustain that level of play for any lengthy period of time.

I understand many Terrier fans expect BU to be even better than a top 10 program, but I think you're overreacting if you say the program is falling apart. It's won one national title during this 13-year stretch we're talking about and has had other teams that were at least contenders even if they didn't get to the Frozen Four. I don't see any reason to think the program can't be even better than that in the next however many years. I think people make the situation out to be more dire than it is because of how good BC has been. If BC only had one national title in the last 10 years, would there be as much talk about this?

 

[buoldtimer]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

SLU not LSSU. In 1998 as a #1 HE seed BU lost to Merrimack in the QF and depsite still having a bye in the NCAA's lost their first game to UNH. I believe that should be considered the start of their downfall. The NCAA's are in Boston and BC takes your spot instead. If your goals are to have a good reagular season team who wins Beanpots and cant get it done in the NCAA's then I am sure you have been pleased with the past 14 years. Your recounting of the almosts and should haves pretty much proves the point that this program has failed to meet their potential. The bottom line if you go way back with the program where BU was the top program in the East for much (not all) of 30 years, their fall from the top in the past 14 years has been startling, and when your main (and in some circles hated) rival surpasses you in such dramatic and unquivocable fashion that exacerbates the problem. In Boston its now a one horse race, BC's main rivals dont play in the East anymore.

No great revelation here, but things turned around the day, BC hired Jerry York and York hired Mike Cavanaugh. For years, Jack Kelley and Jack Parker coached rings around Snooks Kelley, Len Ceglarski and Steve Cedorchuk. York has a plan, knows how to execute it and he and Cavanaugh identify the players who can make it work. Cavanaugh complements him perfectly. Together, they unleashed the dormant potential of the program.

Actually, the real villain here, from a BU viewpoint, is Mike Milbury.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Actually, the real villain here, from a BU viewpoint, is Mike Milbury.

now WHO IS PREACHING TO THE CHOIR!?!?!!?!?

 

[BigRedTerrier]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I support any and all vilifying of Mike Milbury.

For me, the worry about the program has less to do with FF's and national championships (although they would quell many of my concerns) and more to do with simply the team's "desire" and "will to win" in games where you'd think it'd be easy for them to get up for. I get that every team's going to have off nights, but it's when they have a game that you'd expect a strong effort because of the circumstances and they come out completely flat again and again that I get worried about how well they're prepared to play. And I'm not just talking about the Harvard game, but we can throw in the Maine Hockey East SF game last year and pretty much any of the quarterfinal match-ups in the past few years. I'm sure there are others if I think about it more...it's just more often than not I leave BU games thinking "if only they had put in a full 60 mins of effort." Again, I know I shouldn't expect it every night, but I think it's reasonable to expect it most nights and I can't help but think coaching plays a key role in getting the players in the right mindset.

If they played with, on average, half of the heart that they played BC in the 1st round, and they still had the same record over the past 10 years, I'd honestly feel a lot better about this team and surely would feel more confident about their abilities to perform at a high level the rest of the way out in the season and would certainly not question the coaching staff. It has little to do with BC.

 

[Carmine Scarpaglia]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

Your recounting of the almosts and should haves pretty much proves the point that this program has failed to meet their potential.

Excellent point, Jofa.

 

[Terrier520]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

does anybody think that there's a chance that coach durocher would leave the women's team to coach the men? he was an assistant under Parker for at least a little while, was he not?

No. He has no plans to ever leave the women's team. He loves working it, has a strong hand in recruiting, and has enjoyed building the foundation for that team. There is absolutely no way he's leaving.

 

[sterlippo1]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

now WHO IS PREACHING TO THE CHOIR!?!?!!?!?

lol, he read the other thread....................and with all of this discussion about BU's failings in the past 15 years? the other thread is counting the top 58 teams or what ever and y'all will be 5-6 of all time.............if you are used to excellence you expect excellence, right? and anything else is not good enough. the merrimack thread had posts where they inferred that BU fans were spoiled............it's all relative , aint it? they can't comprehend where you are coming from because they haven't been there, yet, so calm down Terrier fans

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

For years, Jack Kelley and Jack Parker coached rings around Snooks Kelley, Len Ceglarski and Steve Cedorchuk. York has a plan, knows how to execute it and he and Cavanaugh identify the players who can make it work. Cavanaugh complements him perfectly. Together, they unleashed the dormant potential of the program.

One correction. Scott Paluch was the main guy York hired. Cav ascended to where he is now when Paluch took the BG job.

Again, I know I shouldn't expect it every night, but I think it's reasonable to expect it most nights and I can't help but think coaching plays a key role in getting the players in the right mindset.

The players are always changing...coach has been a constant. So, if you're seeing a trend spanning many years, I would think that's mainly on the coach.

It has little to do with BC.

You really don't think it has anything to do with BC's resurgence? I definitely do. Certainly not 100%, but I think it's a large part of the reason.

 

[BigRedTerrier]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

You really don't think it has anything to do with BC's resurgence? I definitely do. Certainly not 100%, but I think it's a large part of the reason.

I was speaking for me personally...I only want to beat BC now because to be the best you need to beat the best. If it were any other other team at the top, I'd feel the same way towards them. I do agree thought that its part of the reason, if not the reason, for many BU fans. But for me, if a more consistent effort was given I think the gap between the programs would be really narrowed. I think the talent has been there, but I'm sure that could/would be debated.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

You really don't think it has anything to do with BC's resurgence? I definitely do. Certainly not 100%, but I think it's a large part of the reason.

85/15 it has to do with bc. no doubt.

the decade of the 90s, we won one title. lost finals versus lake, northern, sioux. losing that last game blows. but it's rather tough in that one-and-done format.

now these last 10 yrs that we're complaining about, one title, no other frozen fours. and the next to best team after 09, the 06 team that ended the regular season #1 and lost the regional final.... to whom?!?!?

yeah, it might be 90/10.

and two months from now, as i typed before, they will repeat and we won't even have that in our pocket by ourselves.

ok, maybe 95/5

 

[Federal League]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

You really don't think it has anything to do with BC's resurgence? I definitely do. Certainly not 100%, but I think it's a large part of the reason.

Individuals might say their frustration has nothing to do with BC, but on the whole, I think it certainly does. After 2008, there was a lot of "Holy crap, BC has two this decade, we have none and now they're only one behind us!" After 2009, "Phew, we're back to two ahead of them and it's only 2-1 this decade." After last year, "Holy crap, they have three this decade, we only have one and now they're back to just one behind us!" I can't speak for what others on here heard or thought, but that's what I heard from a lot of fans I talked to.

 

[BigRedTerrier]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

So, are you saying that if say UNH had been as successful as BC over the past decade that there still wouldn't be a high level of frustration?

Granted it's always going to be a bit tougher to swallow when it's your prime rival, but I would still be just as worried if any Hockey East team was as good as BC has been.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

So, are you saying that if say UNH had been as successful as BC over the past decade that there still wouldn't be a high level of frustration?

Granted it's always going to be a bit tougher to swallow when it's your prime rival, but I would still be just as worried if any Hockey East team was as good as BC has been.

1) let's stay away from the land of make believe, ok?
2) but...... if in the past decade bu won 1 national title and uhn 3 (and by default, bc none). things would be going swimmingly.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

I think the talent has been there, but I'm sure that could/would be debated.

And what a debate it would be. I say that because when you look up recruiting rankings every year, there isn't a huge difference. I just went to the INCH recruiting class rankings since 2003-2004:

2003-2004:

7. BC
8. BU

2004-2005:

2. BC
4. BU

2005-2006:

5. BC
BU (not ranked in top 15--who was in that class???)

2006-2007:

2. BU (Keep an eye on: Forward Luke Popko comes to the Terriers with high praise from his former coach. “If I were ever to leave here to start a college program,” said the U.S. NTPD’s John Hynes, “he’d be the guy I start with.”)...found that a bit odd.

12. BC

2007-2008:

2. BU
8. BC

2008-2009:

1. BC
3. BU

2009-2010:

3. BC
6. BU

2010-2011:

3. BU
10. BC

Average rank:

BC: 6
BU: 5.5 (I put BU in at #16 for the year they weren't ranked)

Now, I know these rankings don't mean much, but make of it what you will.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

So, are you saying that if say UNH had been as successful as BC over the past decade that there still wouldn't be a high level of frustration?

Granted it's always going to be a bit tougher to swallow when it's your prime rival, but I would still be just as worried if any Hockey East team was as good as BC has been.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm saying BC's resurgence is part of the reason BU hasn't been as successful as they were prior to the resurgence.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

2005-2006:

5. BC
BU (not ranked in top 15--who was in that class???)

gilroy, mccarthy, lawrence, et.al...

 

[Federal League]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

5. BC
BU (not ranked in top 15--who was in that class???)

That was the class that won the national title as seniors. Higgins, Yip, Lawrence, McCarthy and Gilroy if he counts (not sure if he does since he was a walk-on). I'd say that class turned out OK.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Boston University 2010-11 Part III - Is That So Much To Ask?

gilroy, mccarthy, lawrence, et.al...

OK well that makes sense. Nothing was really expected of the first two. I think Lawrence had some expectations because of who he played with in the National Program. Was pretty disappointing until his great senior year (but I believe you guys have said many of those were tap ins as a result of Wilson)