Big Ten Hockey Conference

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The CCHA as a whole has a deal with FSN-Detroit, a profitable one (especially when Big Ten schools are featured).

It's gotta be if they have been doing it for over a decade. As far as I've ever known, CCHA games have been available on FSN-Detroit. It most likely has to do with Michigan/Michigan State (the bulk of one of the teams playing).

From looking at the CCHA's TV schedule from last year, Michigan has a deal with Ann Arbor Comcast Local, don't they?

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

And even when a TV deal turns a profit, we still aren't talking football or basketball dollars. That's the money that drives networks and conferences; not hockey (or baseball or soccer or lax) money.

This is the key point, however - hockey revenue doesn't have to drive the Big Ten Network. The network is already established. It's looking for more content.

This is a key difference between a non-RSN wanting to televise hockey and the BTN wanting to televise hockey. There is no middle man to take a cut of the revenue, that's the whole point. What the Big Ten Network sees is an opportunity to basically take the deals that Minnesota, Wisconsin (to a much lesser extent) and the CCHA (read - Michigan and MSU) have and internalize them. It's a Regional Sports Net deal, but with much broader potential application.

It's the same idea that the Big Ten Network pushed when they created the thing - national football and basketball games would still be on ESPN and CBS, but the lesser games - the ones that would be syndicated via ESPN Plus (and in hockey's case, the ones that are on separate RSN contracts) would instead be placed on the Big Ten Network. The BTN then cuts out the middle man, still delivers content to the same area as the old syndicated feeds, and has opportunities to expand the range of the broadcast much wider than ever before.

That's where the added value is.

 

[moe24]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

It's gotta be if they have been doing it for over a decade. As far as I've ever known, CCHA games have been available on FSN-Detroit. It most likely has to do with Michigan/Michigan State (the bulk of one of the teams playing).

Yep. Margins are slim, but FSN-Detroit turns a profit on CCHA games every season.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The CCHA as a whole has a deal with FSN-Detroit, a profitable one (especially when Big Ten schools are featured).

The problem with FSD is that they broadcast the Pistons and Red Wings. NESN has the Bruins.

The BTN has live programming on Saturday nights thanks to hoops. They could broadcast games on Friday.

They could also do doubleheaders on Saturday with a hockey game and a hoops game. Which one do you think would get the primetime slot? A 4:00 Saturday hockey game sounds awesome.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I've always been under the impression that most FSN and other hockey cable deals aren't a big a revenue producer, if not money losers (Minnesota's FSN deal may be an exception). The schools/conferences usually have to buy advertising and the games usually cost around $20,000 each to produce. They are valuable from the exposure standpoint, obviously.

The BTN is another kettle of fish entirely. They provide each school with around $10 million per season and the Big Ten schools own 50% of the network.

 

[moose97]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

As far as I've ever known, CCHA games have been available on FSN-Detroit.

Hey, PASS (Pro-Am Sports System) used to air CCHA games, and MSC (Midwest Sports Channel)/WCCO II before that used to air the Gopher's...

Truthfuully, I'm surprised networks like MASN, NESN and the like have held out from being acquired by Fox Sports/Comcast. Now, back to your BTHC talk.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The problem with FSD is that they broadcast the Pistons and Red Wings. NESN has the Bruins.

The BTN has live programming on Saturday nights thanks to hoops. They could broadcast games on Friday.

They could also do doubleheaders on Saturday with a hockey game and a hoops game. Which one do you think would get the primetime slot? A 4:00 Saturday hockey game sounds awesome.

You're forgetting one thing...BTN has overflow channels They can show a bunch of games at one time

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The BTN is another kettle of fish entirely. They provide each school with around $10 million per season and the Big Ten schools own 50% of the network.

I had thought it was actually closer to $20 million.

In either case, it's a lot.

But each school is getting that money from the BTN whether there's hockey or not. The only way the argument of BTN money becomes relevant is if the schools earn more than that existing $20 million because of increased ad revenue from hockey games (instead of women's basketball, or whatever else they'd be showing instead of hockey). If the BTN's revenues don't go up, there's no extra money for anyone just because of hockey being on TV.

Also, throw into the equation the fact that the BTN will not ever come close to covering every game for every team. Not even a little bit. On a given weekend, assume that there are four Big Ten schools playing each other and two Big Ten schools playing non-conference games. That's eight hockey games in a weekend. What are the odds that the BTN broadcasts more than two of those games? Each school will still have to negotiate with local providers to get all of their games on TV.

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Yep. Margins are slim, but FSN-Detroit turns a profit on CCHA games every season.

Not having to travel much further than two hours away seems to help.

Of the 53 games with announced opponents listed on the CCHA website for 2009-2010:
http://www.ccha.com/schedules/tv_schedule.aspx

Here is the breakdown of who was on the most (Includes Comcast Local, BigTenNetwork, Fox Sports Detroit, FSN-D+, CBSCS, ESPNU) (Does not include "unknowns" like GLI finals, CCHA first/second rounds, CCHA Championships).
Michigan 22
Michigan State 14
Miami 11
Notre Dame 11
Nebraska-Omaha 5
Alaska 4
Ferris State 4
Ohio State 4
Lake Superior 3
Northern Michigan 3
Western Michigan 3
Bowling Green 2

For Fox Sports Detroit only (includes FSN-D Plus):
Michigan 6
Michigan State 4
Northern Michigan 2
Alaska 1
Bowling Green 1
Ferris State 1
Lake Superior 1
Miami 1
Notre Dame 1
Ohio State 1
Western Michigan 1
Nebraska-Omaha 0

Host schools for Fox Sports Detroit (includes FSN-D+):
Michigan 5
Michigan State 3
Ferris State 1
Miami 1
Alaska 0
Bowling Green 0
Lake Superior 0
Nebraska-Omaha 0
Northern Michigan 0
Notre Dame 0
Ohio State 0
Western Michigan 0

 

[MavsFan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

You're forgetting one thing...BTN has overflow channels They can show a bunch of games at one time

And yet, I don't think I've ever seen them do so. It's always the same game on all four overflow channels as is on the main channel.

 

[Rover]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

NESN shows quite a few BU games. I had heard BU coughed up some dough for that, but not sure about the arrangements or if that's still in effect.

Anyway, the point is I can turn on TV on the weekends and see 5 games broadcast sometimes between NESN (HE), Channel 11 or something like that in New Hampshire (UNH), Fox Sports showing a couple of games (Michigan, Minny, etc) and the CSTV showing something. These can't all be money losing broadcasts, or they wouldn't be on. Instead the network or station would be showing women's curling matches or something which apparently has similar rating as college hockey in some people's view but which would cost far, far less in production costs.

Nobody's arguing that college hockey broadcasts make more money than football or hoops. However, the standard is does it make more money that what the station/networks are broadcasting now. If the answer is yes, the financial component makes sense. I'm not expecing Ferris State or Union to be getting weekly broadcasts, but for the bigger schools it doesn't surprise me.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

And yet, I don't think I've ever seen them do so. It's always the same game on all four overflow channels as is on the main channel.

I'm not saying they will, but it would make sense to show a college hockey game friday as the main broadcast and then show one saturday on an overflow channel wouldn't it? Since the camera crew is already there? I have only seen overflow used for college football...not sure if they have used it for basketball.

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Hey, PASS (Pro-Am Sports System) used to air CCHA games, and MSC (Midwest Sports Channel)/WCCO II before that used to air the Gopher's...

I didn't know the CCHA was on PASS; we didn't get Satellite at home until after they stopped airing and FSN-Detroit was already full-time.

You're forgetting one thing...BTN has overflow channels They can show a bunch of games at one time

Oh how awesome would that be to air hockey on the overflow channels. I'm not much of a football fan but WOW! was that nice to have all the overflow channels airing alternate BigTen games this past weekend.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

These can't all be money losing broadcasts, or they wouldn't be on. Instead the network or station would be showing women's curling matches or something which apparently has similar rating as college hockey in some people's view but which would cost far, far less in production costs.

Content costs money in television but how a network/cable station receives revenue can differ significantly.

Over the air stations receive a bulk of their revenue from advertising.

ESPN, BTN & FSN's receive a lot of their money from fees charged to cable and satellite providers. So they may lose money on certain programming but as long as viewers pay their cable bills or order expanded sports tiers, they make money.

 

[MavsFan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

I'm not much of a football fan but WOW! was that nice to have all the overflow channels airing alternate BigTen games this past weekend.

Okay, so they do use them. I guess I've just not looked at the program guide at the right time.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

As I was reading through this thread I found myself leaning more and more towards hoping that Denver takes a hard fall. Only because their fans are complete *******s and I don't want them to have nice things.

For the record, I'm all for every other non big10 team to do well, even though I don't see that happening.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

Okay, so they do use them. I guess I've just not looked at the program guide at the right time.

Pretty much 13 Saturdays a year in the fall. They're idle the other 352 days a year.

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The overflow channels are only used for football.

Look at the BTN's upcoming basketball schedule for conference games:

Monday Dec. 27 – Penn State @ Indiana 6:30 PM
Tuesday Dec. 28 – Purdue @ Michigan 2 PM
Wednesday Dec. 29- Illinois @ Iowa 9 PM
Friday Dec. 31- Minnesota @ Michigan State 4 PM
Sunday Jan. 2- Penn State @ Michigan 4 PM
Sunday Jan. 2- Wisconsin @ Illinois 6 PM
Monday Jan. 3- Michigan State @ Northwestern 7:30 PM
Tuesday Jan. 4- Ohio State @ Iowa 9 PM
Wednesday Jan. 5- Purdue @ Penn State 6:30 PM
Wednesday Jan. 5 – Michigan @ Wisconsin 8:30 PM
Saturday Jan. 8- Michigan State @ Penn State 1 PM
Sunday Jan. 9- Iowa @ Purdue Noon
Sunday Jan. 9- Minnesota @ Ohio State 2 or 4 PM
Sunday Jan. 9- Indiana @ Northwestern 7 PM
Tuesday Jan. 11- Illinois @ Penn State 9 PM
Wednesday Jan. 12- Ohio State @ Michigan 6:30 PM
Wednesday Jan. 12 – Northwestern @ Iowa 8:30 PM
Saturday Jan. 15- Northwestern @ Michigan State 1 PM
Saturday Jan. 15- Illinois @ Wisconsin 3 PM
Saturday Jan. 15- Penn State @ Ohio State 5:30 PM
Saturday Jan. 15- Michigan @ Indiana 8 PM
Sunday Jan. 16- Iowa @ Minnesota 6 or 7 PM
Tuesday Jan. 18- Michigan @ Northwestern 9 PM
Wednesday Jan. 19- Iowa @ Ohio State 6:30 PM
Wednesday Jan. 19- Penn State @ Purdue 8:30 PM
Saturday Jan. 22- Minnesota @ Michigan 7 PM
Sunday Jan. 23- Wisconsin @ Northwestern 1 PM
Sunday Jan. 23- Indiana @ Iowa 3 PM
Wednesday Jan. 26- Iowa @ Penn State 6:30 PM
Wednesday Jan. 26- Northwestern @ Minnesota 8:30 PM
Thursday Jan. 27- Illinois @ Indiana 9 PM
Saturday Jan. 29- Wisconsin @ Penn State 4 PM
Sunday Jan. 30- Iowa @ Michigan 4 PM
Sunday Jan. 30- Indiana @ Michigan State 6 PM
Tuesday Feb. 1- Penn State @ Illinois 9 PM
Wednesday Feb. 2- Minnesota @ Indiana 6:30 PM
Wednesday Feb. 2- Michigan State @ Iowa 8:30 PM
Sunday Feb. 6- Michigan @ Penn State Noon or 3 PM
Wednesday Feb. 9- Northwestern @ Michigan 6:30 PM
Wednesday Feb. 9- Wisconsin @ Iowa 8:30 PM
Thursday Feb. 10- Penn State @ Michigan State 7 PM
Saturday Feb. 12- Indiana @ Michigan 4 PM
Sunday Feb. 13- Northwestern @ Penn State 3:30 PM
Sunday Feb. 13- Minnesota @ Iowa 6 PM
Wednesday Feb. 16- Wisconsin @ Purdue 6:30 PM
Wednesday Feb. 16- Michigan @ Illinois 8:30 PM
Thursday Feb. 17- Iowa @ Northwestern 9 PM
Saturday Feb. 19- Wildcard @ Wildcard 4:30 PM
Saturday Feb. 19- Wildcard @ Wildcard 7 PM
Sunday Feb. 20- Penn State @ Wisconsin 6 PM
Tuesday Feb. 22- Michigan State @ Minnesota 9 PM
Wednesday Feb. 23- Wisconsin @ Michigan 6:30 PM
Wednesday Feb. 23- Purdue @ Indiana 8:30 PM
Saturday Feb. 26- Michigan @ Minnesota 4:30 PM
Saturday Feb. 26- Wildcard @ Wildcard 7 PM
Sunday Feb. 27- Northwestern @ Wisconsin 6 PM
Tuesday March 1- Ohio State @ Penn State 9 PM
Wednesday March 2- Iowa @ Michigan State 6:30 PM
Wednesday March 2- Wildcard @ Wildcard 8:30 PM
Saturday March 5- Wildcard @ Wildcard Noon
Sunday March 6- Penn State @ Minnesota 1 or 6 PM

Note that there are no games that would conflict with Friday Night hockey. Likewise, there are only a handful of games that would conflict with Saturday Night hockey - most of the Saturday games are in the afternoon. If a Saturday game is good enough to get a night time slot, it's probably on ESPN anyway, and the Big Ten probably has a basketball non-compete clause at that time.

Another potential option is that the BTN could regionalize hockey. Divide the BTN turf into 6 areas, one for each college hockey team - and if you have simultaneous games going on, just show the local team's game. Pick one game as the marquee one and broadcast that nationally. So far, they've avoided this as a means of trying to grow the BTN.com streaming content, but it's a possibility.

Jan 8
Jan 29
Feb 5
Feb 12
Mar 5

All Saturday nights, currently open slots on BTN during that timeframe. I left out the late December games since that's overlapping with holidays, and college hockey doesn't stick to a strict Fri-Sat schedule then.

 

[CHFAN222]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The Beanpot and HE semi-finals and finals are probably profitable though that is probably because they are held at the Garden and NESN doesn't have to spend time or money setting up equipment since it is already there.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference

The overflow channels are only used for football.

Look at the BTN's upcoming basketball schedule for conference games:



Note that there are no games that would conflict with Friday Night hockey. Likewise, there are only a handful of games that would conflict with Saturday Night hockey - most of the Saturday games are in the afternoon. If a Saturday game is good enough to get a night time slot, it's probably on ESPN anyway, and the Big Ten probably has a basketball non-compete clause at that time.

Another potential option is that the BTN could regionalize hockey. Divide the BTN turf into 6 areas, one for each college hockey team - and if you have simultaneous games going on, just show the local team's game. Pick one game as the marquee one and broadcast that nationally. So far, they've avoided this as a means of trying to grow the BTN.com streaming content, but it's a possibility.

Jan 8
Jan 29
Feb 5
Feb 12
Mar 5

All Saturday nights, currently open slots on BTN during that timeframe. I left out the late December games since that's overlapping with holidays, and college hockey doesn't stick to a strict Fri-Sat schedule then.

I think most of us assumed that Friday night would turn into college hockey night on the BTN once the conference is created. The real question is what they do on saturday night...or if they do regionalize it to show all the BigTen games somewhere, why not use the overflow channels to show whatever game I want to watch?