Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

[Sterling Cooper]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Let's run down Sterling Cooper's predictions, shall we?

BTHC a foregone conclusion....check!
Notre Dame will be told to @#$!@ off.....check!
No life rafts for directional Michigan schools, Fredo of Ohio, Minnesota regionals or any other non-Big Ten team....check!
Maturi will sit in room, shut mouth and do as told.....check!

Big Ten Uber Alles!

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Alumni from the other schools who now live in MSP will want to see WCHA games in MSP (UND, UMD, & Bemidji fans this year). This year three teams were in the tournament that do not travel well to MSP (UAA, CC, & DU) yet the tournament was a success.

There was probably 1000-2000 Gopher fans attending every game of the tournament. It's highly doubtful this level of support will continue when MN departs in two years.

 

[Almington]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Oh my gosh, Gophers fans may have to travel out of State come tournament time. Don't worry about us we are now used to having the tournament without you.

Besides, I thought it was the Sioux fans living in MSP that were purchasing the tickets year after year? Not everyone living in MSP is a Gopher fan. Plenty of UND, UMD, SCSU, Mankato and Bemidji fans living in MSP to buy tickets. Have fun in Chicago, in 2014. No really, it sounds like Chicago could be a great tournament host.

I think that it is safe approximation that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of all the ticket packages are purchased by either UW or MN fans, the majority of those people will stop purchasing tickets. That would, assuming a reduction of about 4,000 ticket packages sold, drop the F5 revenue by $650,000. 6,000 ticket packages would reduce revenue by nearly $1 million. Neither case paints a very rosy picture for the health of the F5 at the X long term.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

There was probably 1000-2000 Gopher fans attending every game of the tournament. It's highly doubtful this level of support will continue when MN departs in two years.

Certainly, but with new schools participating and advancing further in the Tourney that should be easy to overcome.

Start a points system like the Frozen Four has and the Sioux fans will snap up every loose ticket.

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I'm an Illinois guy that would love to see that happen, but I don't see how that's possible unless they (1) shockingly deem the 80-year old 2,000-seat ice arena suitable for D1-play or (2) have a major announcement that a renovation of Assembly Hall is moving forward ASAP and icemaking capabilities are a part of it. The U of I Ice Arena is a fun and loud facility where club games sell out regularly, so I've always believed that there's more than enough interest for D1 hockey at the school (coupled with the large number of Blackhawks fans from Chicago that attend), yet I wouldn't try using it for a D1 program. The Assembly Hall renovation has been discussed constantly for the past 4 years, so I'll believe it when it I see it (although it's definitely necessary).

I don't think renovating Assembly Hall to hold and ice rink will work. A rink is just too big, you'd have to knock out a lot of seats to get a 200 x 85 rink in there, and then you'd have tons of obstructed view seats.

The Ice Arena actually might have some potential. I think it seats about 2,000 or so as is and has a ridiculously large ice sheet (115 feet wide). Shrink that sheet down to an NHL regulation 200 x 85 and I think you could possibly squeeze in another 2,000 seats or so. I have no idea if this would be worth it from the concession and restroom standpoint, or in terms of cost-effectiveness. Worst case, it would make a great practice rink.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Oh my gosh, Gophers fans may have to travel out of State come tournament time. Don't worry about us we are now used to having the tournament without you.

Besides, I thought it was the Sioux fans living in MSP that were purchasing the tickets year after year? Not everyone living in MSP is a Gopher fan. Plenty of UND, UMD, SCSU, Mankato and Bemidji fans living in MSP to buy tickets. Have fun in Chicago, in 2014. No really, it sounds like Chicago could be a great tournament host.

I'm a little surprised by the rumors about Chicago as a potential tournament host (as there's no natural home team there to prop up ticket sales), but the advantage that everyone has to remember is that *every* Big Ten school has *massive* numbers of alums that live there. In the cases of Michigan and Michigan State, more of their grads actually move to Chicago after graduation now than stay in Michigan. For the other Big Ten schools, Chicago is the #1 destination outside of their respective home states. I don't really think casual fans or Blackhawks fans would really be interested in the Big Ten tournament, but there's definitely a huge base of Big Ten alums to draw upon.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I think that it is safe approximation that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of all the ticket packages are purchased by either UW or MN fans, the majority of those people will stop purchasing tickets. That would, assuming a reduction of about 4,000 ticket packages sold, drop the F5 revenue by $650,000. 6,000 ticket packages would reduce revenue by nearly $1 million. Neither case paints a very rosy picture for the health of the F5 at the X long term.

If the X can't sell more than 11k seats, then it should go to the Ralph. The Final Five at Engelstad would sell out, and they could probably charge more for it ($200+/package). That being said, I doubt that will ever be the case. I think the X will be able to consistently sell 11-15k tickets/game, and if it's a particularly good matchup (SCSU or UMD vs North Dakota) I could see it reaching 16-17k+. But, as I said, if it fails, Engelstad would probably be the next best option. I don't think the Pepsi Center would draw all that well. I think you'd see somewhere in the range of 7-9k/game, and that's assuming DU and CC are there.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Certainly, but with new schools participating and advancing further in the Tourney that should be easy to overcome.

Keep in mind the number I threw out there is a guess of the actual number that showed up to the games. It's anybody's guess how many all-session packages were sold to Gopher fans. If the number of those drops significantly and people only end up buying tickets to the games their teams are involved in directly, that'll eat into the profits significantly. If the cheapest all-session package is something like $75 and people instead buy tickets to a couple games, that cuts the revenue in half.

Start a points system like the Frozen Four has and the Sioux fans will snap up every loose ticket.

That's an interesting idea, but I don't know that it would work given the fact that sellouts are extremely rare (only MN-UND in '07 comes to mind). Maybe if you had some sort of hybrid system where the bulk of lower bowl / club seating is available for all session packages only, that would encourage people to continue buying them.

 

[SoCalSiouxFan]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I think that it is safe approximation that somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of all the ticket packages are purchased by either UW or MN fans, the majority of those people will stop purchasing tickets. That would, assuming a reduction of about 4,000 ticket packages sold, drop the F5 revenue by $650,000. 6,000 ticket packages would reduce revenue by nearly $1 million. Neither case paints a very rosy picture for the health of the F5 at the X long term.

Why were most of those Gopher and Wisconsin fans wearing Sioux jersies?

If it is ticket sales you are worried about and MSP doesn't support the tournament then UND could host the WCHA tournament.

 

[SteveP]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I don't think renovating Assembly Hall to hold and ice rink will work. A rink is just too big, you'd have to knock out a lot of seats to get a 200 x 85 rink in there, and then you'd have tons of obstructed view seats.

The Ice Arena actually might have some potential. I think it seats about 2,000 or so as is and has a ridiculously large ice sheet (115 feet wide). Shrink that sheet down to an NHL regulation 200 x 85 and I think you could possibly squeeze in another 2,000 seats or so. I have no idea if this would be worth it from the concession and restroom standpoint, or in terms of cost-effectiveness. Worst case, it would make a great practice rink.

Right now it would make TWO great practice rinks!

The Big Pond is a unique facility for hockey, much like Dahlgren Hall must been before Navy moved into the Brigade Sports Complex. But the cost of renovations could be prohibitive.

I'm no engineer, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of room to put in "2,000 seats or so." IIRC from our last visit there, the bottom row of the upper deck was only about 10 feet above the players benches on one side and right over the boards on the opposite side, which is where the concessions are.

In addition to the concessions and washrooms, there's the locker rooms to consider. They're small and downstairs, a la Chicago Stadium.

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Right now it would make TWO great practice rinks!

The Big Pond is a unique facility for hockey, much like Dahlgren Hall must been before Navy moved into the Brigade Sports Complex. But the cost of renovations could be prohibitive.

I'm no engineer, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of room to put in "2,000 seats or so." IIRC from our last visit there, the bottom row of the upper deck was only about 10 feet above the players benches on one side and right over the boards on the opposite side, which is where the concessions are.

In addition to the concessions and washrooms, there's the locker rooms to consider. They're small and downstairs, a la Chicago Stadium.

You might have to remove and rebuild the existing upper decks.

If you shrink the ice sheet, that gives you an extra 15 feet on either side of the ice. That's easily 5-6+ rows of seats on a side, up and down the ice. That could easily net you another 1,500 seats.

Concessions would be an issue. Just like they are at Yost, you can't really find good places to cram them in and have as many points of sale as you'd like. Nevertheless, it would be possible.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

How likely is it that the WCHA might decrease the insular and overbearing 28 game conference schedule now? What would be the best number: 26? 24? 22? 20??? I recognize the lower the number gets that the more resistance there might seem to be (waah ... extra off-season work for coaches) but if there is to be some sort of scheduling agreement with the BTHC then doesn't the number have to drop?

From the UAA perspective the 28 conference games is pretty limiting. While every other WCHA team ends up getting to play 36 games a year (hence playing 8 non-conference games), UAA never does (hence is always limited to 6) so the only chance to improve their non-conference schedule is a reduction of the WCHA mandate.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

If it is ticket sales you are worried about and MSP doesn't support the tournament then UND could host the WCHA tournament.

I doubt the other members of the conference would be supportive of handing UND home ice advantage for the tournament.

And every other WCHA team does not get to play 36 games a year. They only get the extra two games if they have to travel to Alaska. MN didn't travel up there this season and thus only had 34 regular season games.

 

[Almington]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Why were most of those Gopher and Wisconsin fans wearing Sioux jersies?

If it is ticket sales you are worried about and MSP doesn't support the tournament then UND could host the WCHA tournament.

Secondary ticket market. Where to all the Sioux fan go when the Gophers are playing someone other then UND?

Time will tell how things go at the X as the WCHA moves on without UW and MN. One one hand, I'd expect to sell fewer ticket packages and thus have lower attendance on the thursday games and Friday afternoon game, but I think that single game sales would still push up the Friday night and Champ game attendance. I wonder if having fewer tickets for the Non-gopher games availible on the street would push some UND fans towards buying packages of their own.

The advantage of selling ticket packages for the WCHA is that they then don't have to worry to much about who plays in the Championship game, they are not dependent on single game ticket sales to make things work.

 

[blockski]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

How likely is it that the WCHA might decrease the insular and overbearing 28 game conference schedule now? What would be the best number: 26? 24? 22? 20??? I recognize the lower the number gets that the more resistance there might seem to be (waah ... extra off-season work for coaches) but if there is to be some sort of scheduling agreement with the BTHC then doesn't the number have to drop?

From the UAA perspective the 28 conference games is pretty limiting. While every other WCHA team ends up getting to play 36 games a year (hence playing 8 non-conference games), UAA never does (hence is always limited to 6) so the only chance to improve their non-conference schedule is a reduction of the WCHA mandate.

The press release indicated that the Big Ten was recommending a 20 game conference season.

I agree, this is a good thing for college hockey. If it takes the BTHC to make it happen, so be it. I hope the WCHA and CCHA follow suit in reducing their conference slates as well, particularly if the Big Ten is offering interlocking scheduling opportunities.

 

[Almington]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I doubt the other members of the conference would be supportive of handing UND home ice advantage for the tournament.

I suspect if UND or REA would give a large enough guarantee to the conference (in excess of $1.5M) the other members might be willing to look beyond the whole home ice issue, particularly if things were not going well at the X financially.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I suspect if UND or REA would give a large enough guarantee to the conference (in excess of $1.5M) the other members might be willing to look beyond the whole home ice issue, particularly if things were not going well at the X financially.

Things would have to turn desperate for the other nine schools to agree to it. As long as total attendance stays reasonably close to this year's (say within 5k for the tournament), I don't see them going for it.

 

[aparch]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

The press release indicated that the Big Ten was recommending a 20 game conference season.

I agree, this is a good thing for college hockey. If it takes the BTHC to make it happen, so be it. I hope the WCHA and CCHA follow suit in reducing their conference slates as well, particularly if the Big Ten is offering interlocking scheduling opportunities.

Honestly, how much interlocking can get done by the Big10 teams? We know 20 games are B10 games, so I don't need to break 'em down, but for the Gophers they still have 2 games locked up in the Marriucci Classic. That leaves 34-20-2= 10 non conference games left to schedule. 2 vs tUMD, 2 vs SCSU, 2 vs Mankato. Four games left. They're going to want some cupcakes from the East to beat up on to improve the PWR, so those four games are likely gone.

No NoDak, no DU, no CC, big no to Bemidji, really big NO to MTU, and definitely no Anchorage (unless UAA is flying down to Minneapolis and the Gophers are paying them to do so).

*edit* I don't see Minnesota and Wisco teaming up to be travel partners, but that's one option. I guess. SCSU can host Minn one night, Wisco the next. While Mankato (for example) get's them on the opposite nights.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

....and definitely no Anchorage (unless UAA is flying down to Minneapolis and the Gophers are paying them to do so).

And you're definitely wrong about that. Big 10 schools will come to Alaska (Anchorage or Fairbanks) to play as they already do for non-conference games. They'd be fools not to. Penn State has already mentioned it for their first full season.

 

[4four4]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

And you're definitely wrong about that. Big 10 schools will come to Alaska (Anchorage or Fairbanks) to play as they already do for non-conference games. They'd be fools not to. Penn State has already mentioned it for their first full season.

Donald do you have a link on that? It would be interesting to see what they have to say.