Big Ten 2015-2016

[Slap Shot]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Iirc, Lucia was pushing for it.

I don't think this could be further from the truth, but alas here we are...

The B1G tournament most likely won't ever approach the WCHA FF, but it's only 1 weekend out of an entire season. The rivalries will build over time. Gophers-Wolverines is already building back up, while Gophers-Becky and Ann-Sparty have tradition. PSU is getting better and while MSU isn't a perennial NCAA participant they've had very good seasons in the not too distant past. If UW, MSU and OSU hire competent coaches (assuming the latter 2 finally make a move) it's not that far-fetched to expect more competition and banter.

I'm old enough to remember UMi and MSU in the WCHA. My kids (12 and 13) still have a dislike for UND, but they're at an age now where the other B1G teams are becoming more familiar. If the competition increases there's no reason kids the same age I was when I was first introduced to college hockey won't be able to get excited if the product improves. The WCHA rivalries most are familiar mostly pre-dated the WCHA FF which didn't even become "a thing" until 10 years ago. A one weekend tournament does not an entire season nor rivalry make.

For someone my age B1G hockey probably won't reach what the WCHA felt like just like the Wild will never invoke the same passion in me the North Stars did, but ask any 12 y.o. in the TC if the miss the North Stars? College hockey will outlast me and hopefully my kids will carry a new torch.

 

[SanTropez]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Bring the fighting wife beaters into the conference, that would get this thing going again


While we are at it invite jan brady, umd and denver too. Corky and the beav can stay where they are at, we don't need em'.

Oh yeah, boot out pedo state and ohio state, no one cares about them.

Makes perfect sense, just ask me.

 

[Khryx]

Centrally locating it in Chicago wouldn't help either.

I disagree on this note. I think the B1G thinking they can reproduce the WCHA tourney in a similar manner (i.e. Minneapolis and Detroit) is a mistake. Perhaps if they market things differently as alfablue mentioned it could improve. As others have said, they would prefer to spend money for an away weekend or the Frozen Four though. Personally, I think a traveling fan is more likely to go to Chicago. Also, I think there is a more diverse B1G fan base in and around Chicago like Minneapolis had with the WCHA.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Whack job gopher fan kissing the glass behind the bench

 

[SanTropez]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

I disagree on this note. I think the B1G thinking they can reproduce the WCHA tourney in a similar manner (i.e. Minneapolis and Detroit) is a mistake. Perhaps if they market things differently as alfablue mentioned it could improve. As others have said, they would prefer to spend money for an away weekend or the Frozen Four though. Personally, I think a traveling fan is more likely to go to Chicago. Also, I think there is a more diverse B1G fan base in and around Chicago like Minneapolis had with the WCHA.

Ha ha, good one.

No one will travel to chicago to watch. St.Paul was the only hope of getting fans out to watch, they have spoken.

 

[Almington]

I disagree on this note. I think the B1G thinking they can reproduce the WCHA tourney in a similar manner (i.e. Minneapolis and Detroit) is a mistake. Perhaps if they market things differently as alfablue mentioned it could improve. As others have said, they would prefer to spend money for an away weekend or the Frozen Four though. Personally, I think a traveling fan is more likely to go to Chicago. Also, I think there is a more diverse B1G fan base in and around Chicago like Minneapolis had with the WCHA.

EVERYONE has to travel to Chicago. The WCHA worked because 7 schools had major/primary alumni populations in the MSP area.

 

[Khryx]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

For those that have watched BTN coverage this season, I have twice now heard one of the tv commentators (I forget their names) have a finishing phrase with quite a bit of exuberance, namely "Good night <insert team's name that lost>". Is this a routine thing or was it just the two games I noticed it?

 

[RedFreak]

The B1G Tourney will never do well.

The reason that the WCHA Tourney did so well is because you had so many local schools and the alumni living in and around the Twin Cities.

The vast majority of the attendees were Gopher and Sioux fans, but there were also significant numbers of SCSU, UMD, Tech and Badger fans to fill it out along with the other programs.

All of these are schools where hockey is or was one of the top draws or has (had) a great tradition.

Part of the fun was that it was a destination tourney - meaning that there was a buzz around it and the atmosphere was worth traveling to.

That will never happen with the B1G schools or their tourney. Ever.

You cannot manufacture or create that.


Centrally locating it in Chicago wouldn't help either.

This. I'm a Badger fan living in Madison. I went to every 25 of the WCHA Final 5s (it wasn't always 5) beginning in 1988. I went to the first Big Ten tournament but I don't expect to go to another. Maybe in another generation there might be traditions that people care about, but in this place and time, I just don't give a cr#p about Big Ten hockey.

 

[Khryx]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

EVERYONE has to travel to Chicago. The WCHA worked because 7 schools had major/primary alumni populations in the MSP area.

I agree everyone has to travel to Chicago, just like everyone has to travel to any location. The difference as you pointed out is the WCHA had several schools in close proximity to St. Paul (I mistakenly said Minneapolis above) and more importantly that were willing to travel there. As for the alumni base, I'll wager there is a greater B1G alumni base in the greater Chicago area than in the greater Twin Cities area. Of course, the issue isn't just the alumni base but those alumni interested in hockey.

I don't think the B1G fans travel well right now when it is just for hockey. If you don't agree, look at the attendance numbers. Look at the UMI vs PSU game at MSG as an example, great attendance in a popular city for tourists. Compare this with the B1G tourney, poor attendance for multiple games in cities that don't rank in the top 5 nationally for most visited cities in the US, according to Forbes (Chicago was #3 in 2009).

Neither location is a big draw for tourism compared to Chicago. I'm not saying Chicago will/would work but I think there is potential for it to work better given the current state of B1G hockey.

 

[John Biasi]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

People are discounting Chicago too much. There are more than enough alumni from Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin living there who would have an interest in going with no travel necessary. Getting to Chicago from every ice hockey playing campus except State College is a breeze. St. Paul and Detroit? Not so much.

However, it's probably too late to give Chicago a try. The B1G missed the boat on it. With the resurgence of the Blackhawks organization, and the huge amount of B1G alumni in greater Chicagoland, you would have had the perfect mix of alumni, easy travel and a general hockey interest. Now, everyone knows the B1G tournament is overpriced and under delivers. I've paid to go to both CCHA and WCHA tournaments and have yet and have no desire to pay to go to the B1G.

The B1G has a lot of problems. The biggest problem is that the teams once good and dominant now pale in comparison. The B1G came in to existence smack dab just as all of the programs minus Penn State started to struggle. In 2004 and 2005 all five B1G programs were ranked in the PairWise top 20 (top 12 in 2004). There were some strong, strong years for the B1G when they were separated, but starting in 2009 to 2011 they fell from grace. I really don't think it has anything to do with other conferences' strength or power. Things don't change that quickly with the way recruiting works now. It just happens the B1G was created at a bad time.

Below are the final PairWise rankings of B1G teams over the last 19 years. Notice the drop-off after 2008.

1998: 1 Michigan State, 4 Michigan, 6 Ohio State, 8 Wisconsin
1999: 3 Michigan State, 11 Michigan, 12 Ohio State
2000: 1 Wisconsin, 11 Michigan State, 12 Michigan, 17 Minnesota
2001: 1 Michigan State, 5 Michigan, 7 Minnesota, 9 Wisconsin
2002: 3 Minnesota, 5 Michigan State, 6 Michigan, 16 Ohio State
2003: 3 Minnesota, 9 Michigan, 11 Ohio State, 16 Michigan State
2004: 4 Minnesota, 6 Ohio State, 8 Michigan, 10 Wisconsin, 12 Michigan State
2005: 4 Minnesota, 6 Michigan, 12 Ohio State, 13 Wisconsin, 19 Michigan State
2006: 1 Minnesota, 2 Wisconsin, 4 Michigan State, 9 Michigan
2007: 1 Minnesota, 8 Michigan, 9 Michigan State, 13 Wisconsin
2008: 1 Michigan, 9 Michigan State, 11 Minnesota, 12 Wisconsin
2009: 4 Michigan, 16 Wisconsin, 17 Minnesota
2010: 3 Wisconsin, 14 Michigan, 15 Michigan State
2011: 6 Michigan, 19 Minnesota
2012: 2 Michigan, 8 Minnesota, 15 Michigan State, 19 Ohio State
2013: 2 Minnesota, 14 Wisconsin
2014: 1 Minnesota, 4 Wisconsin, 15 Michigan, 19 Ohio State
2015: 11 Minnesota, 20 Michigan
2016 (as of time of this post): 6 Michigan, 17 Minnesota

 

[Greyeagle]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Of course, the issue isn't just the alumni base but those alumni interested in hockey.

No disagreeing with you...just made me think of this.

{Jack Kent} Cooke had been told that there were more than three hundred thousand former Canadians living within a three-hour drive of Los Angeles, and remarked, "Now I know why they left Canada: They hate hockey!"

 

[SteveO]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

As for the alumni base, I'll wager there is a greater B1G alumni base in the greater Chicago area than in the greater Twin Cities area. Of course, the issue isn't just the alumni base but those alumni interested in hockey.

Good call and you would most likely win that wager!

Tracking alumni data by city is tricky and time consuming. One broad way to sample it is to use LinkedIn, which can calculate and sort every user account of a current or former student at a school, and track it by metro. These numbers obviously undercount total figures (alumni who don't have LinkedIn accounts aren't represented), but they should also undercount the data by a similar proportion amongst member schools.

The following findings were done by SB Nation using LinkedIn as a source:

Chicago: 241,242

New York: 216,065

Washington D.C.: 140,146

Columbus: 88,842

Philadelphia: 80,564

Indianapolis: 63,383

Cleveland: 25,589

 

[Khryx]

People are discounting Chicago too much. There are more than enough alumni from Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin living there who would have an interest in going with no travel necessary. Getting to Chicago from every ice hockey playing campus except State College is a breeze. St. Paul and Detroit? Not so much.

However, it's probably too late to give Chicago a try. The B1G missed the boat on it. With the resurgence of the Blackhawks organization, and the huge amount of B1G alumni in greater Chicagoland, you would have had the perfect mix of alumni, easy travel and a general hockey interest. Now, everyone knows the B1G tournament is overpriced and under delivers. I've paid to go to both CCHA and WCHA tournaments and have yet and have no desire to pay to go to the B1G.

The B1G has a lot of problems. The biggest problem is that the teams once good and dominant now pale in comparison. The B1G came in to existence smack dab just as all of the programs minus Penn State started to struggle. In 2004 and 2005 all five B1G programs were ranked in the PairWise top 20 (top 12 in 2004). There were some strong, strong years for the B1G when they were separated, but starting in 2009 to 2011 they fell from grace. I really don't think it has anything to do with other conferences' strength or power. Things don't change that quickly with the way recruiting works now. It just happens the B1G was created at a bad time.

I agree about the down turn but I don't think the league having only 6 teams and playing each other four times can be over emphasized. I would argue that six teams from any league would be greatly hurt in the pairwise if they played a schedule like the B1G teams. I'm not talking about the strength of schedule, rather the playIng four games (2 home / 2 away) against five teams and 12+ non-conference games. I don't know that the ECAC, HE, or NCHC would be as bad but I haven't run a RPI/pairwise simulation to find out. It is just a hypothesis.

Oh and I agree the Chicago option is probably out now but who knows when the St. Paul / Detroit deals run out, maybe they will re-consider it.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

Once the level of play increases to what we have seen historically from these teams (having more than one team doing well each season), and more time passes and people get more used to the changes, this tournament will start drawing better. Not on Final Five levels, but no conference tournament will ever match that level.

Granted this is the national playoffs, but look at this atmosphere in the old Mooch for Minnesota vs Michigan State.

<a href="http://youtu.be/yzc482nSRVM">LINK</a>

People like to complain about the rivalry changes, but older fans will attest to the fact that rivalries change. Deny that all you want, but it won't make it any less true. Will the rivalries be the same or as intense? Who knows, but there won't be nearly as much apathy as there is now forever.

To the poster who said if the fans complain enough the B1G will go away. You're fooling yourself. It's going no where. Get used to it or move on to supporting a new program. Why waste your energy complaining? Life is too short.

I've stopped posting as much here and on Twitter, not because of the marginal season the Gophers are having (though that has made it easier), but because the complaining about the B1G is getting incredibly old.

People need to either do as Alfablue suggested and find a way to make the best of the situation and try and improve things, or move on to something else. It's a drag CONSTANTLY hearing people complain, all the while compounding the issue by not showing up or supporting the conference.

My $0.02.

 

[DLG]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

I think the problem is you are playing the same teams for the 6th time during the year.
The BIG ruined the conference system in college hockey
Loved seeing the NCHC having almost having 3 times the fans of BIG last night
Hockey East which has remained stable always has around 13,000 the first night regardless of who is playing
Conferences with only 6 teams don't need a conference tournament

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

I think the problem is you are playing the same teams for the 6th time during the year.
The BIG ruined the conference system in college hockey
Loved seeing the NCHC having almost having 3 times the fans of BIG last night
Hockey East which has remained stable always has around 13,000 the first night regardless of who is playing
Conferences with only 6 teams don't need a conference tournament

NCHC has more teams in the conference, and more importantly more teams with shorter travel distances. Same with Hockey East.

And the B1G won't be at 6 teams for long.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Big Ten 2015-2016

I think the problem is you are playing the same teams for the 6th time during the year.

This will be the 5th meeting between the two M schools. SCSU and WMU played 6 times this year, Cornell and Quinnipiac met 5 times, BC and UV 5 times, CC and UND 6 times....

I stopped reading after your first sentence.

 

[cross cheque]

NCHC has more teams in the conference, and more importantly more teams with shorter travel distances. Same with Hockey East.

And the B1G won't be at 6 teams for long.

Agree. After Wisconsin and Minnesota drop down to DII next year it will be 4 teams.

 

[RedFreak]

And the B1G won't be at 6 teams for long.

Can't wait to start that rivalry with Illinois.

 

[mnstate0fhockey]

This will be the 5th meeting between the two M schools. SCSU and WMU played 6 times this year, Cornell and Quinnipiac met 5 times, BC and UV 5 times, CC and UND 6 times....

I stopped reading after your first sentence.

Good point too.