Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

Is there any shot that Climie will back up Lehtonen in Dallas next year, or is he going to toil in Cedar Park to be there if an injury occurs?

GFM

I believe Climie is a free agent this year, but not sure if it is restricted or unrestricted.

With the way Krahn has played in the playoffs, it maybe hard for Matt to get a serious look from Dallas. I wouldn't be surprised to see him move onto a different organization.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

I wouldn't be surprised to see him move onto a different organization.

Matty should go to Philly.

GFM

 

[5hole]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

...

Matt Dalton and the Reading Royal have been bumped from the ECHL playoffs. After taking a 3-0 lead over Cincy in the Eastern Conference Finals, Reading then went on to drop the last four games. Dalton does lead the ECHL in playoff wins, but with the playoffs complete, that probably won't last as Cincy and Idaho are playing in the Championship.

And Millsy, I will add that in the historic Game 7 (first time in Kelly Cup history that a team has come back from a 3-0 series deficit) the GWG was scored when former Purple Eagle Barret Ehgoetz beat Matt Dalton on a shot from the slot.

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

I saw that 5-hole. IIRC, I don't think Ehgoetz's and Dalton's played each other in college.

On another former BSU goalie note, it was posted over on The BeaverPond that Layne Sedivie has been named the Head Coach of the NAHL's Bismarck Bobcats. Layne played at Bismarck before coming to BSU and was an assistant coach there this past year.

Also, Matt Climie has been named the starter for Games 1 and 2 against Hamilton in the AHL Playoffs. Krahn is still out with an injury.

 

[moose97]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

The Bemidji City Council tonight approves a motion to name the BREC ice the "Robert H. Peters Rink." Very well deserved!

 

[GO-4-EXCELLENCE]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

It makes sense for them to have the rink, which is why they agreed to build it before the WCHA thawed on expansion. I just don't see where it makes sense for the rink to be that much bigger than it is.

Even if it should be bigger, it took a lot of attempts to get this rink built through the political system. As a UAH fan, I've followed the Beavs for over a decade, so I've heard their failures and successes. I just don't think that the money was there to be 50% bigger than it is.

GFM

right. i wasn't advocating for a 10,000+ seat area. rather, as i said before, that a rink in upwards of 7,000 to 8,000 seats would have allowed for them to garner and support outside interest a la tournaments, etc.

as your friends pointed out some of the smaller schools/communities have bigger arenas. i understand the folks up there worked very hard (as i remember hearing about it first hand) to secure this deal - i am very very happy for them and the community up there!

i suppose it didn't help that admission to the WCHA was put on hold for so long - had they been accepted earlier they likely would have and could have built a bigger arena.

regardless, this is a much needed stepping stone for school and the community (and really the state of Minnesota.)

p.s.
do you always "electronically" sign your name? is it really necessary? i mean, we do know who you are by your profile!

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

right. i wasn't advocating for a 10,000+ seat area. rather, as i said before, that a rink in upwards of 7,000 to 8,000 seats would have allowed for them to garner and support outside interest a la tournaments, etc.

as your friends pointed out some of the smaller schools/communities have bigger arenas. i understand the folks up there worked very hard (as i remember hearing about it first hand) to secure this deal - i am very very happy for them and the community up there!

i suppose it didn't help that admission to the WCHA was put on hold for so long - had they been accepted earlier they likely would have and could have built a bigger arena.

regardless, this is a much needed stepping stone for school and the community (and really the state of Minnesota.)

p.s.
do you always "electronically" sign your name? is it really necessary? i mean, we do know who you are by your profile!

The rink was necessary, I believe, to secure the WCHA bid. I think that's the chicken-egg thing.

As for your p.s., it's habit from Usenet, and honors a long-dead friend.

GFM

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

Congrats to Coach Peters on having his name added to the rink at the BREC! I think we all kind of knew this would happen, but what a nice honor for a great person!

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

i wasn't advocating for a 10,000+ seat area. rather, as i said before, that a rink in upwards of 7,000 to 8,000 seats would have allowed for them to garner and support outside interest a la tournaments, etc.

I still don't think the Bemidji area could have supported an arena over 5,000 seats long term. If they would have went larger than that, you would have had to rely on visiting fans to fill the place, and that would take some of the "home ice" advantage away, and if they don't show, then you have a half filled arena, which isn't good. Plus, I said it earlier, it is better to have a full arena with people wanting to get in then to have a half full arena with no one wanting to get in.

As for tournaments, Bemidji isn't a big enough "city" (ie: hotel space) to draw the major tournaments, and 4500-5000 seats would be just about right to be the "second" rink for a World Junior Tournament, World Curling Tournament or something similar. 4500-5000 seats is also a good size for any High School Regionals that they may get.

 

[moose97]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

I still don't think the Bemidji area could have supported an arena over 5,000 seats long term. If they would have went larger than that, you would have had to rely on visiting fans to fill the place, and that would take some of the "home ice" advantage away, and if they don't show, then you have a half filled arena, which isn't good. Plus, I said it earlier, it is better to have a full arena with people wanting to get in then to have a half full arena with no one wanting to get in.

As for tournaments, Bemidji isn't a big enough "city" (ie: hotel space) to draw the major tournaments, and 4500-5000 seats would be just about right to be the "second" rink for a World Junior Tournament, World Curling Tournament or something similar. 4500-5000 seats is also a good size for any High School Regionals that they may get.

I agree with all this. I also wanted to post the ave. attendance for the last 13 years:

Average attendance per game:
09-10: 2,303
08-09: 1,986
07-08: 1,533
06-07: 1,629
05-06: 1,731
04-05: 1,267
03-04: 1,327
02-03: 1,204
01-02: 1,284
00-01: 1,275
99-00: 1,526
98-99: 1,181
97-98: 1,692

Now, obviously having the Gophers, SCSU, UMD, UND, etc. in for conference games rather than Findlay, RMU, Wayne State et. all will help; but G-4-E is suggesting that attendance not only double (like it will have to do just to make the 4700 seat BREC look full), but increase by a factor of 3-4 to fill a 7-8000 seat barn. That's not remotely possible...

Here's the thing - I was on several advisory boards with the City when they decided to build the BREC, and the question was always, "how big does it need to be to get into the WCHA." The minimum requirement for membership is a capacity of 4000, and truthfully, back when this was in the planning stages, that looked like a huge number (look at the late '00's and note that attendnace was ~ 1200 to 1700 at that time). Now, the rink is going to hold 4700, and it looks pretty good that they will sell a ton of those seats. Would it be better if it were bigger? Maybe, but the excitement now is based on the Frozen Four run in '09 and the building itself.

Hypothetical question - what happens if in, say, 15 years BSU is in a down-cycle, and they can barely get 1000 in the building for UAA (because the excitement over the rink long-ago wore off, and the team is languishig in last place in the league)? Sure, that would look bad in a 4700 seat rink, but what would it look like in an 8000 seater?

I think the bottom line here is that G-4-E thinks he knows the area because he "used to come up for hockey camp" (truely, a while ago too, since the camp hasn't run since the late '90's - and trust me, it's changed a ton since I moved here in '99) yet refuses to listen to people who live here currently, or visit dozens of times a year...

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

As for tournaments, Bemidji isn't a big enough "city" (ie: hotel space) to draw the major tournaments, and 4500-5000 seats would be just about right to be the "second" rink for a World Junior Tournament, World Curling Tournament or something similar. 4500-5000 seats is also a good size for any High School Regionals that they may get.

Yeah, hotel space was something I'd thought about but not posted. Good call, Millsy.

Also, yes, the Peters announcement should have been fully obvious to everyone---even I knew they'd do it.

We still have the McLeod Cup, though ...
GFM

 

[GO-4-EXCELLENCE]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

Hypothetical question - what happens if in, say, 15 years BSU is in a down-cycle, and they can barely get 1000 in the building for UAA (because the excitement over the rink long-ago wore off, and the team is languishig in last place in the league)? Sure, that would look bad in a 4700 seat rink, but what would it look like in an 8000 seater?

I think the bottom line here is that G-4-E thinks he knows the area because he "used to come up for hockey camp" (truely, a while ago too, since the camp hasn't run since the late '90's - and trust me, it's changed a ton since I moved here in '99) yet refuses to listen to people who live here currently, or visit dozens of times a year...

so what does that say about the community of Bemidji and all of its loyal supporters on here? sounds like the WCHA was right, then, when it came to considering Bemidji as a member!!

true, i was still under those "hockey camp" and "tournament" impressions, and, coupled with all these recent shifts/happenings, where was i wrong in thinking Bemidji had changed that much!? *no one* on here specifically spoke of the camps being gone, etc.!

so, me "refusing to listen" to any of the "esteemed" people on this board is not the case. they were trying to argue via "population" numbers and school size - which isn't entirely relevant (as several pointed out on this board.) period. no one, until now, had mentioned attendance (at least not in actual numbers.)

that said, then it becomes clear. so, you can get off your high horse now, as i was listening. gfm made a weak argument when it came to the population - attendance records adds much more weight to the argument.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

so what does that say about the community of Bemidji and all of its loyal supporters on here? sounds like the WCHA was right, then, when it came to considering Bemidji as a member!!

true, i was still under those "hockey camp" and "tournament" impressions, and, coupled with all these recent shifts/happenings, where was i wrong in thinking Bemidji had changed that much!? *no one* on here specifically spoke of the camps being gone, etc.!

so, me "refusing to listen" to any of the "esteemed" people on this board is not the case. they were trying to argue via "population" numbers and school size - which isn't entirely relevant (as several pointed out on this board.) period. no one, until now, had mentioned attendance (at least not in actual numbers.)

that said, then it becomes clear. so, you can get off your high horse now, as i was listening. gfm made a weak argument when it came to the population - attendance records adds much more weight to the argument.

Sure, sure. When the facts get in the way of your argument, blaming your fellow discussion participants/claiming elitism/playing the victim card lets you win the argument.

GFM

 

[moose97]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

true, i was still under those "hockey camp" and "tournament" impressions, and, coupled with all these recent shifts/happenings, where was i wrong in thinking Bemidji had changed that much!? *no one* on here specifically spoke of the camps being gone, etc.!

so, me "refusing to listen" to any of the "esteemed" people on this board is not the case. they were trying to argue via "population" numbers and school size - which isn't entirely relevant (as several pointed out on this board.) period. no one, until now, had mentioned attendance (at least not in actual numbers.)

First off, the attendance numbers are available to everyone, right here on this website. Pleading ignorance isn't a good choice. Second, you absolutly did refuse to listen. Like I said, I've lived here for over a decade. You visited "several times" over a decade ago. Wouldn't it have been easier to just take my word for it? And finaly, population is absolutly releant. CC was mentioned as the smallest school with the 4th largest rink. However, they are in a metro area of over 600,000. You think that BSU might build a bigger rink if they were in Colorado Springs? Or even Duluth? There simply isn't enough population to support rinks the size those two schools have.

And finally, pointing out that you have been to the John Glas, you should have been able to figure out that attendance couldn't have been more than ~ 2200 over the last few years (just on size of facility). Not only that, you should have known that Bemidji isn't Duluth (let alone Colorado Springs). Now, hockey is quite popular at the moment, but asking 10% of the "area" population (the 80,000 within 80 miles) to attend hockey/concerts/etc. each week is quite a stretch...

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

Has anyone ever looked at the size of the rinks in the WCHA compared to the market size that the school is in? I would venture to guess that a lot of them are under 10%, probably closer to 5%.

Here is what I have for arena sizes. If anyone has time to look at market sizes, I would be happy to turn it over to them....

UAA: 6206
Bemidji State: ~4700
CC: 7343
Denver: 6026
Michigan Tech: 4200
Minnesota: 10000
Mankato: 4832
Duluth: 5233 (current DECC)
Nebraska-Omaha: 16680
North Dakota: 11634
St. Cloud: 5763
Wisconsin: 15237

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

Alright, I had a little time here, and this is what I was able to come up with from Wiki (arena size from USCHO....Metro Population from Wiki.....Size of the arena compared to Metro size)


UAA: 6206....359180....1.72%
Bemidji State: ~4700....43169....10.9%
CC: 7343....626227....1.17%
Denver: 6026....3110436....0.19%
Michigan Tech: 4200....38000....11.05%
Minnesota: 10000....3383503....0.30%
Mankato: 4832....89567....5.39%
Duluth: 5233 (current DECC)....230183....2.27%
Nebraska-Omaha: 16680....858720....1.94%
North Dakota: 11634....97190....12.0%
St. Cloud: 5763....189148....3.05%
Wisconsin: 15237....601283....2.53%

If you look at those numbers, Bemidji's arena is actually on the high end when comparing it to the metro area populations. If they would have went to 7000-8000, you would have been looking at 20% of the area needed to fill the building.

 

[moose97]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

Alright, I had a little time here, and this is what I was able to come up with from Wiki (arena size from USCHO....Metro Population from Wiki.....Size of the arena compared to Metro size)


UAA: 6206....359180....1.72%
Bemidji State: ~4700....43169....10.9%
CC: 7343....626227....1.17%
Denver: 6026....3110436....0.19%
Michigan Tech: 4200....38000....11.05%
Minnesota: 10000....3383503....0.30%
Mankato: 4832....89567....5.39%
Duluth: 5233 (current DECC)....230183....2.27%
Nebraska-Omaha: 16680....858720....1.94%
North Dakota: 11634....97190....12.0%
St. Cloud: 5763....189148....3.05%
Wisconsin: 15237....601283....2.53%

That's some fantastic info there Millsy...

If you look at those numbers, Bemidji's arena is actually on the high end when comparing it to the metro area populations. If they would have went to 7000-8000, you would have been looking at 20% of the area needed to fill the building.

So, you're telling me BSU's gonna have the third "largest" rink in the league?

 

[gfmorris]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

Alright, I had a little time here, and this is what I was able to come up with from Wiki (arena size from USCHO....Metro Population from Wiki.....Size of the arena compared to Metro size)


UAA: 6206....359180....1.72%
Bemidji State: ~4700....43169....10.9%
CC: 7343....626227....1.17%
Denver: 6026....3110436....0.19%
Michigan Tech: 4200....38000....11.05%
Minnesota: 10000....3383503....0.30%
Mankato: 4832....89567....5.39%
Duluth: 5233 (current DECC)....230183....2.27%
Nebraska-Omaha: 16680....858720....1.94%
North Dakota: 11634....97190....12.0%
St. Cloud: 5763....189148....3.05%
Wisconsin: 15237....601283....2.53%

If you look at those numbers, Bemidji's arena is actually on the high end when comparing it to the metro area populations. If they would have went to 7000-8000, you would have been looking at 20% of the area needed to fill the building.

:standing slow clap:

GFM

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

Yes Moose, that I am.

Thanks GFM!!!!!

 

[PenaltyBoxBeast]

Re: Bemidji State offseason, WCHA, BREC here we come!

Greetings Beaver nation!

I'm a long time CC fan and I just have to say how excited I am to have BSM in the WCHA. I always enjoy watching BSM come to the World Arena and I like any team that is capable of beating DU. I look forward to seeing your new rink in the near future; when the Tigers eventually make it up there to play you guys.

Have a great summer! Only five more monthes 'til hockey!