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B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

bravohankins said:
My son, who played all the way up through Midget 18AAA, so he was a high level player, gave up officiating as well. He reffed all up through the levels and after he decided not to play any more Junior hockey thought he might take it up more full time and seriously.
However, the parents, coaches and tourney admins just beat all of those thoughts right out of him and he stopped doing it at 23. People are just jerks and many times had no clue what the rules really were. He was threatened, followed in parking lots, spit at......just ridiculous stuff.

So, yea WCHA refs stink too........bad calls every single game. However, who else you gonna get? The guys left are the only ones that have decided to soldier on despite the thankless job.
Click to expand...

One of the things that I dislike, is due to fans misbehavior towards refs, they no longer have the names on the refs uniform. I often kept track of refs very casually, and you can't do that now. And, I don't mean always in a bad way. there were plenty of good refs, that when a game was over, I made a mental note, "that was done pretty good", or "his games never have a big problem".
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

Sheesh!! Only the Napa Valley League produces more w(h)ine than I'm reading on this thread. I don't personally know either of the two referees who worked the ND-Minny game but I can guarantee that, when all was said and done, nobody--including everyone whining on this thread--felt worse about that call than the official who made it. The demands placed on hockey officials IMO are far greater than those faced by their bounceyball and football brethren simply because of the speed of the game. Things happen in a fraction of an instant and referees have to reflexively make the penalty/no penalty decision based on instincts developed over a period of years. Sometimes those instincts are wrong. It's the nature of the game. And if you think that phantom calls are made only in the B1G, you haven't been watching many NHL games.

So yeah, it was a bad call and one team had to deal with the unfair consequences. Bad calls have happened before and they'll happen again. But really, officials at this level are highly accomplished, take pride in their work, and that work is continuously reviewed, critiqued, and evaluated. But accomplished and experienced as they may be, game officials are still human beings, none of whom are perfect.

It's time to move on.
 
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Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

Split-N said:
So yeah, it was a bad call and one team had to deal with the unfair consequences. Bad calls have happened before and they'll happen again. But really, officials at this level are highly accomplished, take pride in their work, and that work is continuously reviewed, critiqued, and evaluated. But accomplished and experienced as they may be, game officials are still human beings, none of whom are perfect.

It's time to move on.
Click to expand...
I think you miss the point here.
It isn't even remotely about a bad or missed call here or there but do we have a real problem or not with the quality and expertise of our conference officials and what procedures are there or should be to evaluate and improve? That's the core here.
BTW, as defensive as you seem towards the officials I can't help but wonder if your weekend attire includes a black & white stripped shirt?
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

The ECAC for whatever reason seems to have turned over many officials over the past couple of years. I am not sure if it was a conscious decision or just a cycle of turnover. That said, adding a bunch of new officials did not change things at all. From my season ticket view at Yale, the officiating remained pretty poor, especially for the level of hockey being played. As was noted, finding good crews these days is very difficult, these men and women are all doing part time jobs with some serious travel involved. I am not sure how much they are paid, but most likely it is probably not worth the headaches, just dues you have to pay if you are serious about moving up.
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

davyd83 said:
Shegos was widely regarded as one of the best officials in college hockey. I always find it amusing that no fan ever seems to notice a bad call that went in favor of their team.
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Not by Michigan fans- the "we want Shegos" chant was an insult to the ref.
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

Split-N said:
Sheesh!! Only the Napa Valley League produces more w(h)ine than I'm reading on this thread. I don't personally know either of the two referees who worked the ND-Minny game but I can guarantee that, when all was said and done, nobody--including everyone whining on this thread--felt worse about that call than the official who made it. The demands placed on hockey officials IMO are far greater than those faced by their bounceyball and football brethren simply because of the speed of the game. Things happen in a fraction of an instant and referees have to reflexively make the penalty/no penalty decision based on instincts developed over a period of years. Sometimes those instincts are wrong. It's the nature of the game. And if you think that phantom calls are made only in the B1G, you haven't been watching many NHL games.

So yeah, it was a bad call and one team had to deal with the unfair consequences. Bad calls have happened before and they'll happen again. But really, officials at this level are highly accomplished, take pride in their work, and that work is continuously reviewed, critiqued, and evaluated. But accomplished and experienced as they may be, game officials are still human beings, none of whom are perfect.

It's time to move on.
Click to expand...

It's Tuesday, my team doesn't play again for 7 months. What else should we talk about in an officials thread? also, these refs are from the ccha, so I don't know their history. Maybe the guy was like Randy Schmidt, and wanted the game over fast.
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

Hockeybuckeye said:
..I can't help but wonder if your weekend attire includes a black & white stripped shirt?
Click to expand...

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...before I got too old and ugly. (Actually, the "ugly" part came before the "old" part.) But seriously, the new breed of younger officials is much better trained. Almost all are products of the USA Hockey officiating program, which is structured to identify young officials with high potential and provide them with high-level training and development opportunities. In the bad old days, before this program came along, college officials came largely from an Old Boy Network, where what you knew wasn't as important as who you knew. I'm one of the Old Boys but will be the first to tell you that the young studs are light years ahead of where we were. Still not perfect (and never will be) but IMO, better than what came before.


BTW, I still wear my fan hat when it comes to my Alma Mater and remain butthurt over a certain (IMO) phantom hook in OT that might have decided the 2015 Beanpot. But we move on.
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

Split-N said:
Sheesh!! Only the Napa Valley League produces more w(h)ine than I'm reading on this thread. I don't personally know either of the two referees who worked the ND-Minny game but I can guarantee that, when all was said and done, nobody--including everyone whining on this thread--felt worse about that call than the official who made it. The demands placed on hockey officials IMO are far greater than those faced by their bounceyball and football brethren simply because of the speed of the game. Things happen in a fraction of an instant and referees have to reflexively make the penalty/no penalty decision based on instincts developed over a period of years. Sometimes those instincts are wrong. It's the nature of the game. And if you think that phantom calls are made only in the B1G, you haven't been watching many NHL games.

So yeah, it was a bad call and one team had to deal with the unfair consequences. Bad calls have happened before and they'll happen again. But really, officials at this level are highly accomplished, take pride in their work, and that work is continuously reviewed, critiqued, and evaluated. But accomplished and experienced as they may be, game officials are still human beings, none of whom are perfect.

It's time to move on.
Click to expand...

So we can't have a discussion on a message board on how things might be improved? Whatever we have is good enough?

And how do you know the refs felt bad about the call? My former boss refs HS Hockey and in my, and several other people's opinion, is the least consistent ref in the area. Yet he has never admitted to missing a call and gets defensive when anyone suggests any ref in any sport made a bad call. He can't admit the some refs make bad calls at times. It is comical, and we no longer bring up any calls when talking about a game if he is around, because he just gets agitated defending the ref. Another guy I know is a former WCHA ref. Very nice guy, but he does admit he was biased against certain teams and players (yet wouldn't call penalties on the guys from his home town). Not all refs at every level are good. And when a call is missed that is critical, why can't refs do like the ump in the baseball game who apologized for incorrectly calling a guy safe, ruining a bid for a no-hitter? That is the 'human' thing to do.

And I am guessing there are improvements in training that CAN improve things. Video review of calls in games with the head ref. Things like Skype make this much easier in the past. This would be better than just a video sent out at the beginning of the year to clarify rule changes or points of emphasis. I am not sure what all is done currently, but I'd be willing to bet there is room for improvement. And is there any accountability for refs who make bad calls?
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

The officiating has clearly gone downhill: I can't remember the last time I saw them throw candy to the Children of Yost. Completely unacceptable.


At least with my team not having post season hopes on the line, bad calls didn't bother me as much. No premature whistles (or intent to whistle) disallowing goals.

My biggest concern were a few games where by the end of the 1st period enough chippy stuff had not been called that there was potential for things to get out of hand and injuries to happen. So of course, things got out of hand. IIRC, those games were officiated by Aaron and Pochmara.

I typically respect McInchak. I think he at least calls things even and I would say he's the best official we currently have. This year, however, there were nights I felt inclined to yell at him as well.

Also, is 2 refs better than 1? Why does it often seem the ref furthest from the play is the one calling a penalty?
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

wolverineTrumpet said:
The officiating has clearly gone downhill: I can't remember the last time I saw them throw candy to the Children of Yost. Completely unacceptable.


At least with my team not having post season hopes on the line, bad calls didn't bother me as much. No premature whistles (or intent to whistle) disallowing goals.

My biggest concern were a few games where by the end of the 1st period enough chippy stuff had not been called that there was potential for things to get out of hand and injuries to happen. So of course, things got out of hand. IIRC, those games were officiated by Aaron and Pochmara.

I typically respect McInchak. I think he at least calls things even and I would say he's the best official we currently have. This year, however, there were nights I felt inclined to yell at him as well.

Also, is 2 refs better than 1? Why does it often seem the ref furthest from the play is the one calling a penalty?
Click to expand...

Well said!
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

state of hockey said:
Very true. Piotrowski has been a good friend of the Gophers in the past. Time to pay the piper, I suppose.
Click to expand...

Not really. That call in OT in 2002 was an obvious one. Don't remember any other assists but I could be forgetting.

btw was he on hand for the Gophers-Maine OT regional game in 2001?
 
wolverineTrumpet said:
The officiating has clearly gone downhill: I can't remember the last time I saw them throw candy to the Children of Yost. Completely unacceptable.


At least with my team not having post season hopes on the line, bad calls didn't bother me as much. No premature whistles (or intent to whistle) disallowing goals.

My biggest concern were a few games where by the end of the 1st period enough chippy stuff had not been called that there was potential for things to get out of hand and injuries to happen. So of course, things got out of hand. IIRC, those games were officiated by Aaron and Pochmara.

I typically respect McInchak. I think he at least calls things even and I would say he's the best official we currently have. This year, however, there were nights I felt inclined to yell at him as well.

Also, is 2 refs better than 1? Why does it often seem the ref furthest from the play is the one calling a penalty?
Click to expand...

Could it me that he has a different view? Could the ref closest to the play have his vision somewhat impeded by the play around him?
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

Split-N said:
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...before I got too old and ugly. (Actually, the "ugly" part came before the "old" part.) But seriously, the new breed of younger officials is much better trained. Almost all are products of the USA Hockey officiating program, which is structured to identify young officials with high potential and provide them with high-level training and development opportunities. In the bad old days, before this program came along, college officials came largely from an Old Boy Network, where what you knew wasn't as important as who you knew. I'm one of the Old Boys but will be the first to tell you that the young studs are light years ahead of where we were. Still not perfect (and never will be) but IMO, better than what came before.
Click to expand...

I agree. I started watching hockey with a black and white TV, so I don't think it is fair to compare today's officials with those of yesteryear. Key point, the game has changed. Good officials, back in the day, let the players play. They didn't call all this tickey tack stuff that is expected to be called now. It's tough to be consistent with as fast as the game moves now, not to mention, we now have non-stop replays that were never available before, so officials are scrutinized at unprecedented levels.
Officials will always miss calls. Officials that are biased or have vendettas need to be removed from any sport. Every official knows that close calls will always garner a response from fans, but every fan must stay within the parameters of common decency. When fans, or coaches, go too far, we tear down the competitive infrastructure of the game, which then moves the focus away the game itself.
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

It’s not “my team”s conference but, as someone who has been a soccer referee for a number of years, I’d say there’s a culture issue with college hockey and referees.

There’s confirmed stories of conduct that, in other college sports, would at best lead to someone being fired and at worst be a full blown media scandal. The fact that referees have gone to bars and restaurants and socialized with fans and fan groups before and after games is unprofessional and appalling. The fact that this not only unpunished but actively ignored is alarming.

On the other side, college hockey doesn’t seem to have the problems of coaches having undue influence on which referees are assigned to their games, something that is very pervasive in other college sports.
 
Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

wolverineTrumpet said:
...Also, is 2 refs better than 1? Why does it often seem the ref furthest from the play is the one calling a penalty?
Click to expand...

1) Two referees is not necessarily better than one but is a necessity because of the ever-increasing speed of the game. One referee--even in the best of shape--just can't keep up anymore. Field of vision is also a factor. The "deep" referee looks across the ice and along the goal line while the "away" referee is looking down the ice from a vantage point in the neutral zone and thus has a wider field of vision.

2) The "deep" referee is primarily responsible for plays around the net, along the goal line, and in the deep slot. Think goal/no goal, puck kicked or batted into the net with the hands, goalie interference, etc; the "away" referee is primarily responsible for play away from the net and play behind the "deep" referee when he/she moves up close to the net.
 
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Re: B1G Officiating. Time for a change?

Split-N said:
1) Two referees is not necessarily better than one but is a necessity because of the ever-increasing speed of the game. One referee--even in the best of shape--just can't keep up anymore. Field of vision is also a factor. The "deep" referee looks across the ice and along the goal line while the "away" referee is looking down the ice from a vantage point in the neutral zone and thus has a wider field of vision.

2) The "deep" referee is primarily responsible for plays around the net, along the goal line, and in the deep slot. Think goal/no goal, puck kicked or batted into the net with the hands, goalie interference, etc; the "away" referee is primarily responsible for play away from the net and play behind the "deep" referee when he/she moves up close to the net.
Click to expand...

What? I thought this was allowed now? Was this instituted after the MN v ND game?
 
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