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B1G Championship in Detroit

Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

8. Saddest/heart warming moment: OSU skating off the ice saluting the band because those were the only fans they had.

I feel kinda bad for their actual hockey fans that just want hope for their team but I don't feel bad for OSU proper. They're the largest athletic department in the country. They have more than enough money to build a hockey-only arena and show actual commitment to the sport. And yet they choose to do nothing and let their program rot in that cave of an arena.

Show some commitment, empty suits. It'll do you wonders. Just ask Penn State about diving head-first into hockey.
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

Pipe dream for the B1G to ever touch those numbers.

I could maybe see it if it was in St Paul, and WI somehow gets good again and faces MN. That's what helped the NaCHo. UND (huge fanbase) and SCSU (local fanbase; hour or so away from the Target Center).
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

Oh, great, the Michigan vs. Minnesota debate again.

I am an old-timer who now mostly lurks. But, since I first engaged in this debate, my perspective has grown--I started as an Ann Arbor-based Michigan fan, but I now live in Duluth and have for almost six years. So I have perspective on both environments.

A poster made some good illustrations about the school vs. club team contrast in hockey cultures, and I think it is a reasonable layout. But let's not undersell how the school-and-community based hockey culture in Minnesota differs from Michigan, here. In Michigan people who like hockey get involved in hockey programs and congregate together. They find each other, and there is a rich and healthy niche community that one can be a part of if one makes the effort.

But it is a niche. A large one, but a niche. This is not quite the same thing as identifying who is a fan of the local pro team (the Wings, or the Wild--my experience is that they currently inspire similar levels of fan devotion, though I have no television ratings knowledge to draw from). These are people who know and love hockey.

It's not a niche in Minnesota. Minnesota is saturated with hockey. Duluth has something like 20 outdoor ice rinks in local parks that operate every winter, probably more ice surface than basketball surface in the summer. The state tournament gets a nice attendance and that's cute and all, but what is really astonishing is how many people who don't go think it matters. Sure, schools in the tournament send students, but schools who don't sniff the tournament grind to a halt, too. Duluth East's magical run to the final was not only followed by East students and parents, but also by archrival (and lower-division hockey minnow) Denfeld. Proctor, which hosts one of the worst hockey programs in the state, had to send a memo to students and families explaining that they would not be showing the tournament on school televisions this year, that students who wanted to watch would have to call in. And people did this.

Run into an average group of middle school guys and they are as likely to talk hockey as any other sport. Converse in a group of a dozen adults and at least a couple will discuss the travails of getting their kid to hockey practice. Listen to the radio and there will be discussion of multiple levels of hockey fielded. None of this happens consistently in Michigan.

Michigan is a great place to live if you are a hockey fan. The game is readily available on many levels, and people in the state understand it and appreciate it. But it is no strike against Michigan's devotion to its hockey teams that Minnesota's hockey culture is more saturated and more robust; it is simply a fact.

Note: this issue has nothing to do with the disaster that is the B1G conference tournament. C'mon, a few weeks ago Michigan and Michigan State played a Friday game at the Joe. It sold out. This game had higher stakes. It... did not sell out. The problem is not the fans, it is the tournament, and I say that as someone who was and remains greatly in favor of the move to a B1G hockey conference.

Realignment was a necessity for college hockey as a sport (the threads about it prior to the B1G development were a regular feature of this board) and the B1G alignment made and still makes tons of sense. Teams like Minnesota State and Michigan Tech appear to benefit greatly from this, much to everyone's surprise. Teams are adding hockey again, and the race to see which team will surprisingly beat North Dakota this year and/or win the national title is as wide open as it has ever been. But the western conference tournaments have been permanently, severely damaged, and that is an awful shame.
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

To add to Caustic's post (and I remember his posts from long ago):

No one said MI was not a hockey state, nor were they a bad hockey state. They just are not THE hockey state. I can comment on local rinks, as I worked the warming house for one for a few years. Every Fri/Sat night, friends and I would take over the rink. Got neighborhood youths involved, too. It was a thing. That's what we did, no matter how cold (played in -20 degrees a few times).

For the tourney, it is part the fans. As some of us Gophers have said, 45 minute drive, and the attendance was THAT bad? That's just horrid. Even in tonight's MI-MSU game...attendance was not good.

For the WCHA tourney, MTU sent their whole band, and then some. 3 vans-full of students outside of the band came in from MI. We do have quite a few local Techies here in the Twin Cities, who also showed up. And some hardcore Gopher fans, who refuse to let the tradition of March tourney tailgating die attended the tourney. We love our hockey.

Proportionately, I'd honestly say that Tech travels the best (as in actually travels) for fans.

Furthermore, I'm anti-B1G, but I know there is nothing I can do about it. This year hurt the conference with WI surprising sucking as bad as they did, and MN and MI underperforming (relative to their storied histories). That will also hurt the tourney attendance.
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

I might concede that Minnesota supports the game better than Michigan statewide because of the rural roots there. But I would say that Detroit is a better hockey town than the Twin Cities. The roots of the game are pretty deep here. It just isn't focused on high school and college like there.

This is the post I was referencing, and overall it is very insightful. This particular piece of the quote, though, isn't necessarily correct. And that is no fault of Detroit (or rather, Metro Detroit, which I believe I can say with some confidence is what you are actually referring to). Detroit is a great hockey hub with many fans of many programs that has a special, unique relationship with its hockey team. In the heydays of the 90s and early 00s, I believe few cities anywhere had such a close relationship with a single team of any sport as Detroit (and the whole state) had with the Red Wings.

But that was not precisely hockey-specific. That is, the love of the Wings wasn't a love of the hockey team that played in Detroit so much as it was the love of a team and a set of players and storylines that, for many fans, just happened to play hockey. Steve Yzerman was a great player and a leader and a humble man and someone who had paid immense dues for the privilege of lifting the Stanley Cup; impossible not to like, but also loved for reasons that went far beyond the sport he played. The heated rivalry with the Avalanche was a rivalry of personalities and high-stakes games and a criminally dirty blindside hit, and it could have taken place in any number of sports and been nearly as intense.

I am not saying that Michigan people aren't good hockey fans, just that the passion many people have for their pro and college teams is more intense than their passion for the sport itself. Now, there is some bleed-over--I consider myself a strong fan of the sport, and that began with a fandom of the Red Wings and Michigan Hockey. But in Minnesota, my impression is that the following of the Wild is the reverse. It is a community that loves hockey, and after losing one team, another was started, and the hockey fans adopted it as the local professional franchise of a sport already beloved.
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

But in Minnesota, my impression is that the following of the Wild is the reverse. It is a community that loves hockey, and after losing one team, another was started, and the hockey fans adopted it as the local professional franchise of a sport already beloved.

This is entirely correct. I haven't gone "back" to the Wild after the North Stars left, as I adopted the NJ Devils (as is my right as a sports fan whose hometown team left), but they are my second team, simply because of the sport.
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

My thoughts:

6. All the Gopher fans around me left and never came back after their game.

As a veteran of old WCHA tournaments, I can say that this is not surprising at all. The state of MN may be full of hockey fans; but, the U of MN fans seem to only be interested in their games (don't attend all tourney games), & fairly fair weather at that. Granted, I'm a badger fan, & have to admit we're fair weather too.
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

As a veteran of old WCHA tournaments, I can say that this is not surprising at all. The state of MN may be full of hockey fans; but, the U of MN fans seem to only be interested in their games (don't attend all tourney games), & fairly fair weather at that. Granted, I'm a badger fan, & have to admit we're fair weather too.

Quite a few of us (relatively) attended today's WCHA games.
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

I would add a couple of comments. First...to Brent's point, in MN most hockey fans are not Wild fans because everyone follows hockey. For many, the Wild has yet to earn our following. Second...we have few 'clubs', no USHL, and no CHL. This is not because we don't have the hockey fans to support them. Some clubs don't come here because we don't need them...some because they don't fit into our existing culture. Only a tiny percentage of local hockey players go the CHL route...in hockey circles, its as though the CHL doesn't exist.
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

I would add a couple of comments. First...to Brent's point, in MN most hockey fans are not Wild fans because everyone follows hockey. For many, the Wild has yet to earn our following. Second...we have few 'clubs', no USHL, and no CHL. This is not because we don't have the hockey fans to support them. Some clubs don't come here because we don't need them...some because they don't fit into our existing culture. Only a tiny percentage of local hockey players go the CHL route...in hockey circles, its as though the CHL doesn't exist.

I will agree that minor league hockey isn't here because we don't "need" them. The number of hockey teams (at all levels) is rather insane here.

Edit: the culture here is: play youth hockey. Play HS hockey. Go to D1 college hockey. Go to NHL.

And Shattuck's-St Mary's helps with that, btw.
 
?..the U of MN fans seem to only be interested in their games (don't attend all tourney games), & fairly fair weather at that. Granted, I'm a badger fan....

The first part perhaps, the second not a chance (attendance at Mariucci has never come close to approaching REA or Dade/Kohl levels during down years), and the third no kidding.
 
Last edited:
Oh, great, the Michigan vs. Minnesota debate again.

I am an old-timer who now mostly lurks. But, since I first engaged in this debate, my perspective has grown--I started as an Ann Arbor-based Michigan fan, but I now live in Duluth and have for almost six years. So I have perspective on both environments.

A poster made some good illustrations about the school vs. club team contrast in hockey cultures, and I think it is a reasonable layout. But let's not undersell how the school-and-community based hockey culture in Minnesota differs from Michigan, here. In Michigan people who like hockey get involved in hockey programs and congregate together. They find each other, and there is a rich and healthy niche community that one can be a part of if one makes the effort.

But it is a niche. A large one, but a niche. This is not quite the same thing as identifying who is a fan of the local pro team (the Wings, or the Wild--my experience is that they currently inspire similar levels of fan devotion, though I have no television ratings knowledge to draw from). These are people who know and love hockey.

It's not a niche in Minnesota. Minnesota is saturated with hockey. Duluth has something like 20 outdoor ice rinks in local parks that operate every winter, probably more ice surface than basketball surface in the summer. The state tournament gets a nice attendance and that's cute and all, but what is really astonishing is how many people who don't go think it matters. Sure, schools in the tournament send students, but schools who don't sniff the tournament grind to a halt, too. Duluth East's magical run to the final was not only followed by East students and parents, but also by archrival (and lower-division hockey minnow) Denfeld. Proctor, which hosts one of the worst hockey programs in the state, had to send a memo to students and families explaining that they would not be showing the tournament on school televisions this year, that students who wanted to watch would have to call in. And people did this.

Run into an average group of middle school guys and they are as likely to talk hockey as any other sport. Converse in a group of a dozen adults and at least a couple will discuss the travails of getting their kid to hockey practice. Listen to the radio and there will be discussion of multiple levels of hockey fielded. None of this happens consistently in Michigan.

Michigan is a great place to live if you are a hockey fan. The game is readily available on many levels, and people in the state understand it and appreciate it. But it is no strike against Michigan's devotion to its hockey teams that Minnesota's hockey culture is more saturated and more robust; it is simply a fact.

Note: this issue has nothing to do with the disaster that is the B1G conference tournament. C'mon, a few weeks ago Michigan and Michigan State played a Friday game at the Joe. It sold out. This game had higher stakes. It... did not sell out. The problem is not the fans, it is the tournament, and I say that as someone who was and remains greatly in favor of the move to a B1G hockey conference.

Realignment was a necessity for college hockey as a sport (the threads about it prior to the B1G development were a regular feature of this board) and the B1G alignment made and still makes tons of sense. Teams like Minnesota State and Michigan Tech appear to benefit greatly from this, much to everyone's surprise. Teams are adding hockey again, and the race to see which team will surprisingly beat North Dakota this year and/or win the national title is as wide open as it has ever been. But the western conference tournaments have been permanently, severely damaged, and that is an awful shame.

Well said. I agree with everything you said.
 
This is the post I was referencing, and overall it is very insightful. This particular piece of the quote, though, isn't necessarily correct. And that is no fault of Detroit (or rather, Metro Detroit, which I believe I can say with some confidence is what you are actually referring to). Detroit is a great hockey hub with many fans of many programs that has a special, unique relationship with its hockey team. In the heydays of the 90s and early 00s, I believe few cities anywhere had such a close relationship with a single team of any sport as Detroit (and the whole state) had with the Red Wings.

But that was not precisely hockey-specific. That is, the love of the Wings wasn't a love of the hockey team that played in Detroit so much as it was the love of a team and a set of players and storylines that, for many fans, just happened to play hockey. Steve Yzerman was a great player and a leader and a humble man and someone who had paid immense dues for the privilege of lifting the Stanley Cup; impossible not to like, but also loved for reasons that went far beyond the sport he played. The heated rivalry with the Avalanche was a rivalry of personalities and high-stakes games and a criminally dirty blindside hit, and it could have taken place in any number of sports and been nearly as intense.

I am not saying that Michigan people aren't good hockey fans, just that the passion many people have for their pro and college teams is more intense than their passion for the sport itself. Now, there is some bleed-over--I consider myself a strong fan of the sport, and that began with a fandom of the Red Wings and Michigan Hockey. But in Minnesota, my impression is that the following of the Wild is the reverse. It is a community that loves hockey, and after losing one team, another was started, and the hockey fans adopted it as the local professional franchise of a sport already beloved.

I too fell in love with that Red Wings team for the very reasons you mentioned. Hard not to love those teams of the 90's. Yzerman is still one of my favorite players all-time to this day.

In relation to Minnesota, I think Chris Peters (of CBSSports and formerly of United States of Hockey blog said it best):

"Despite the North Stars leaving in 1993 for Dallas, the Minnesota hockey faithful never batted an eye when it came to participation. This is probably the one state where the NHL team has the least amount of influence on hockey membership. Hockey is part of the culture in Minnesota, a part of its pride. Minnesota has more hockey players than any other state and will likely continue on that trend for many years to come."

Despite losing our NHL team, USA hockey registrations continued to grow thruought the 90's. Something that the North Stars ownership never understood or grasped about MN hockey culture is that it isn't driven by the NHL. The Wild have embraced that culture. They have hung thr state's high school sweaters around the concourse of the arena, they give up the X every year for the State Tournament (Wild have had to practice elsewhere that week on many occasions), and they do a lot to promote and embrace the youth hockey culture thruought the state. Fans have embraced the team because of it, despite the team not having all that much success yet.

Different cultures between MN and MI and nothing wrong with that.
 
I would add a couple of comments. First...to Brent's point, in MN most hockey fans are not Wild fans because everyone follows hockey. For many, the Wild has yet to earn our following. Second...we have few 'clubs', no USHL, and no CHL. This is not because we don't have the hockey fans to support them. Some clubs don't come here because we don't need them...some because they don't fit into our existing culture. Only a tiny percentage of local hockey players go the CHL route...in hockey circles, its as though the CHL doesn't exist.

The USHL started in MN (with the precurser American Amateur Hockey League) and was once entirely within Minnesota. I think the main reason we don't have USHL teams based here nowdays is because of the saturation of hockey teams in the state. Considering our population size, the fact there is a pro team and 5 division 1 schools here, and that high school hockey captures so much attention doesn't leave a whole lot of market share.
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

This debate can go on for a long time.

But what to do?

How about we all send letters to our athletic directors telling them what we see and explaining that a little work will go a long way.

Here is what isn't going to change, the 2016 championship is at the X, and the 2017 will be at the Joe. The B1G hockey conference will go on.

This isn't going to change.

Let's see if we can address some simple changes to make the event better?
 
Re: B1G Championship in Detroit

I feel kinda bad for their actual hockey fans that just want hope for their team but I don't feel bad for OSU proper. They're the largest athletic department in the country. They have more than enough money to build a hockey-only arena and show actual commitment to the sport. And yet they choose to do nothing and let their program rot in that cave of an arena.

Show some commitment, empty suits. It'll do you wonders. Just ask Penn State about diving head-first into hockey.
Why would a hockey only arena benefit us?
That idiot moron Gene Smith would only sign another 10 year contract to hand it over for high school hockey playoffs this time kicking us out of our own facility again.
 
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