cetihcra
New member
How far is it from Aurora to Utica?
It's roughly 1000 miles shorter than Utica to Aurora.
r
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Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
- Thread starter slowe
- Start date
It's roughly 1000 miles shorter than Utica to Aurora.
r
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
Careful Ron, the Fishman might understand what you are saying here.
It's roughly 1000 miles shorter than Utica to Aurora.
r
Careful Ron, the Fishman might understand what you are saying here
.Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
The post of the summer!
It's roughly 1000 miles shorter than Utica to Aurora.
r
The post of the summer!
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
I've never heard anything (even rumors) about it either. Also I am not sure where they would play unless Cornell would let them use Lynah (doubtful). There are two other rinks but neither are viable options in my opinion, even for DIII. Outdoor at Cass Park or The Rink (current home for their club team) which has very limited seating.
I've never heard anything (even rumors) about it either. Also I am not sure where they would play unless Cornell would let them use Lynah (doubtful). There are two other rinks but neither are viable options in my opinion, even for DIII. Outdoor at Cass Park or The Rink (current home for their club team) which has very limited seating.
sbkbghockey
Registered User
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
Playing a few years (or decades such as Penn State) of club hockey is not a prerequisite for joining the NCAA but some universities do choose to start their and build a program then transition to the NCAA. Aurora appears to have athletic support: http://athletics.aurora.edu/news/2012/8/20/MHock_0820123354.aspx and the team has been a part of the athletic department while at the ACHA level. The issue is, other than starting a team and getting some former Chicago-area high school players, they haven't done much program building. They will need to do a lot more than they have been to be competitive at the NCAA level. I hope I'm wrong but so far there's just some concerning signs about the program. I hope ice hockey is taken seriously at AU and not just an experiment.
Several teams have joined the DIII ranks having ZERO club experience even and have gone on to do well. The only thing a 0-12 record in DIII club shows you that would relate to NCAA DIII is the commitment the admin has given the program. Having said that, some admins could care less about "club" sports but go all in for actual DIII sports. This is also another reason why they probably have no "NCAA-caliber" players, yet. If you put that NCAA tag on them, give them some Financial Aid packages, you would be surprised how quickly a program can be turned into at least semi competitive.
Look on the bright side, with Aurora entering DIII it gives the ECAC West another team to schedule....
Playing a few years (or decades such as Penn State) of club hockey is not a prerequisite for joining the NCAA but some universities do choose to start their and build a program then transition to the NCAA. Aurora appears to have athletic support: http://athletics.aurora.edu/news/2012/8/20/MHock_0820123354.aspx and the team has been a part of the athletic department while at the ACHA level. The issue is, other than starting a team and getting some former Chicago-area high school players, they haven't done much program building. They will need to do a lot more than they have been to be competitive at the NCAA level. I hope I'm wrong but so far there's just some concerning signs about the program. I hope ice hockey is taken seriously at AU and not just an experiment.
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
I concur, a squad full of former Chicago-area High School players wouldn't make them competitive in Tier III Juniors. High School hockey in Illinois is,
rolleyes.
I concur, a squad full of former Chicago-area High School players wouldn't make them competitive in Tier III Juniors. High School hockey in Illinois is,
rolleyes.Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
No offense to this guy http://athletics.aurora.edu/staff.aspx?staff=6, but is this the coach that is actually going to be starting the NCAA program? It would seem to make sense to have a coach in place this season to recruit and prepare for NCAA competition in '14-'15.
No offense to this guy http://athletics.aurora.edu/staff.aspx?staff=6, but is this the coach that is actually going to be starting the NCAA program? It would seem to make sense to have a coach in place this season to recruit and prepare for NCAA competition in '14-'15.
bakdraft21
Well-known member
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
I hope not too. Mostly for the safety of the players I think he would likely bring in.
Illinios high school hockey is indeed behind MN, MA, and probably MI, but the top teams are about on par with the WI schools as evidenced by their performance in National level tournaments like the Chicago Showcase. There are a handful of former IL high school players currently in the NHL (goaltenders Al Montoya and Craig Anderson come to mind) and at least one hall of famer (Chris Chelios.) There are dozens of IL players currently playing NCAA hockey at the D1 level. The thing is, unlike MN H.S. hockey and Eastern Prep schools, none of these guys went straight from H.S. to the NCAA.
The key to build a NCAA program, be it D1 or D3, is to have connections in competitive Junior leagues. Preferably the USHL, NAHL, EJ (or whatever they're calling that league for the upcoming season), or the tier 2 Canadian leagues. I would be surprised if the coach linked above has even heard of these leagues, much less knows anyone associated with them.
I hope not too. Mostly for the safety of the players I think he would likely bring in.
Illinios high school hockey is indeed behind MN, MA, and probably MI, but the top teams are about on par with the WI schools as evidenced by their performance in National level tournaments like the Chicago Showcase. There are a handful of former IL high school players currently in the NHL (goaltenders Al Montoya and Craig Anderson come to mind) and at least one hall of famer (Chris Chelios.) There are dozens of IL players currently playing NCAA hockey at the D1 level. The thing is, unlike MN H.S. hockey and Eastern Prep schools, none of these guys went straight from H.S. to the NCAA.
The key to build a NCAA program, be it D1 or D3, is to have connections in competitive Junior leagues. Preferably the USHL, NAHL, EJ (or whatever they're calling that league for the upcoming season), or the tier 2 Canadian leagues. I would be surprised if the coach linked above has even heard of these leagues, much less knows anyone associated with them.
Hammer
We'll be back.
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
The assistant baseball coach is going to slide over and coach hockey, too. Wow. This reeks of "small town high school". If they do that, it's going to show on the scoreboard. I don't think Aurora knows what they're getting into if they pull a move like this. Half the NCHA is going to have no class at some point in the year.
The assistant baseball coach is going to slide over and coach hockey, too. Wow. This reeks of "small town high school". If they do that, it's going to show on the scoreboard. I don't think Aurora knows what they're getting into if they pull a move like this. Half the NCHA is going to have no class at some point in the year.
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
It is also possible that this is a"placeholder" until a permanent coach is found. Castleton went for 3 years with the Dean of Students serving as coach before they brought in A. Todd. The teams for the first few years were dismal
It is also possible that this is a"placeholder" until a permanent coach is found. Castleton went for 3 years with the Dean of Students serving as coach before they brought in A. Todd. The teams for the first few years were dismal
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
EXCEPT, I can not find any job openings for ANY hockey positions there. Hopefully they were just waiting until the fall sports stabilize and then thay are going to go hunting.
EXCEPT, I can not find any job openings for ANY hockey positions there. Hopefully they were just waiting until the fall sports stabilize and then thay are going to go hunting.
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
Sorry altazo, but Illinois HS hockey is not a breeding ground for TODAY'S top players. Tommy Wingles (San Jose), Johnny Moore (New York Rangers),Terry Broadhurst (Rockford Icehogs), and a myriad of other pros from Illinois DID NOT play in the Illinois HS hockey system, they all played for one of the 4 AAA teams in Illinois ( Team Illinois, Chicago Mission, Chicago Fury, and the Chicago Young Americans).
That goes for recent/current players at the D1 levels like Robby Johnson (Holy Cross), Cab Morris (Dartmouth), and TJ Tynan (Notre Dame) or D3 players like George Malliaras (SNC), Phil Bushbacher (LU), Mitch Kriz (Marian), Jason McAloon (LFC) and about 95% of NCAA level players coming out of Illinois.
The only exception to this scenario that I can think of is Lou Educate (Utica). He didn't play AAA, but he did play 4 years of Juniors. (3) years in Tier III and (1) year in Tier II.
The example you cite of Ill. HS teams doing well in national showcases is off the back of one school, New Trier HS, the state's hockey powerhouse that has won 10 State Championships and 2 National titles in the past 15 years. They have 3 varsity teams and one JV team in a school of 5,000 plus students in the most affluent community in the Chicago Metro area. Their top team is the equivalent of a mid to low level AAA team. The other 77 HS teams are like AA teams. Hardly the fertile grounds to develop an NCAA D3 team.
Sorry altazo, but Illinois HS hockey is not a breeding ground for TODAY'S top players. Tommy Wingles (San Jose), Johnny Moore (New York Rangers),Terry Broadhurst (Rockford Icehogs), and a myriad of other pros from Illinois DID NOT play in the Illinois HS hockey system, they all played for one of the 4 AAA teams in Illinois ( Team Illinois, Chicago Mission, Chicago Fury, and the Chicago Young Americans).
That goes for recent/current players at the D1 levels like Robby Johnson (Holy Cross), Cab Morris (Dartmouth), and TJ Tynan (Notre Dame) or D3 players like George Malliaras (SNC), Phil Bushbacher (LU), Mitch Kriz (Marian), Jason McAloon (LFC) and about 95% of NCAA level players coming out of Illinois.
The only exception to this scenario that I can think of is Lou Educate (Utica). He didn't play AAA, but he did play 4 years of Juniors. (3) years in Tier III and (1) year in Tier II.
The example you cite of Ill. HS teams doing well in national showcases is off the back of one school, New Trier HS, the state's hockey powerhouse that has won 10 State Championships and 2 National titles in the past 15 years. They have 3 varsity teams and one JV team in a school of 5,000 plus students in the most affluent community in the Chicago Metro area. Their top team is the equivalent of a mid to low level AAA team. The other 77 HS teams are like AA teams. Hardly the fertile grounds to develop an NCAA D3 team.
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
The three NHL players I cited absolutely did play IL H.S. hockey. The Chicago Showcase tournament is an All-Star tournament with something like 25+ states participating, New Trier doesn't field a team in that Tourney, nor do they have 5,000+ students.
Another example would be Connor Olvany who went directly from New Trier to four very productive years at Williams. A couple seasons ago one of Norwich's backup goaltenders came directly from St. Rita, another Chicagoland H.S.
Again, not saying it's top-flight H.S. hockey, but it does produce some kids who move onto decent Junior leagues and eventually NCAA hockey.
The three NHL players I cited absolutely did play IL H.S. hockey. The Chicago Showcase tournament is an All-Star tournament with something like 25+ states participating, New Trier doesn't field a team in that Tourney, nor do they have 5,000+ students.
Another example would be Connor Olvany who went directly from New Trier to four very productive years at Williams. A couple seasons ago one of Norwich's backup goaltenders came directly from St. Rita, another Chicagoland H.S.
Again, not saying it's top-flight H.S. hockey, but it does produce some kids who move onto decent Junior leagues and eventually NCAA hockey.
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
I have a feeling that the NCHA powers at be inquired about the coaching situation before admitting Aurora as a member. I am going to presume that they received satisfactory answers to their coaching questions.
I have a feeling that the NCHA powers at be inquired about the coaching situation before admitting Aurora as a member. I am going to presume that they received satisfactory answers to their coaching questions.
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
I know that Chelios played for MT. Carmel HS, but that was at a time before AAA replaced HS as the place for development. Eddie Olzcyk went to Brother Rice , but played for Team Illinois AAA. Al Montoya went to Loyola Academy were he played a year and then played at Chicago Young Americans (CYA) AAA, and then the USNTDP in Ann Arbor. Craig Anderson went to Barrington HS, but played his hockey at CYA. Jared Boll (Columbus) played his Midget hockey at Team Illinois. Mike Brown (Toronto) played for CYA. Playing one year of HS hockey and then moving on doesn't constitute a HS development product.
Your boys Chelios, Olvanny, Educate, and the St.Rita goalie fall into that 5% of players that I said don't play AAA before they move on to the higher levels of hockey in Illinois. Those 4 guys spread over a near 35 year span won't build a team.
Ok, you got me on New Trier not having 5,000 students. They only have 4,129 attending as of June 2013. BTW, Josh Balch (Yale/CYA), and Matt Lindblad (Dartmouth/CYA), Tommy Wingles (San Jose /Team Illinois), and John Moore (NYR/ Mission) all went to New Trier HS. Kind of gives you an idea of the depth that HS has.
I know that Chelios played for MT. Carmel HS, but that was at a time before AAA replaced HS as the place for development. Eddie Olzcyk went to Brother Rice , but played for Team Illinois AAA. Al Montoya went to Loyola Academy were he played a year and then played at Chicago Young Americans (CYA) AAA, and then the USNTDP in Ann Arbor. Craig Anderson went to Barrington HS, but played his hockey at CYA. Jared Boll (Columbus) played his Midget hockey at Team Illinois. Mike Brown (Toronto) played for CYA. Playing one year of HS hockey and then moving on doesn't constitute a HS development product.
Your boys Chelios, Olvanny, Educate, and the St.Rita goalie fall into that 5% of players that I said don't play AAA before they move on to the higher levels of hockey in Illinois. Those 4 guys spread over a near 35 year span won't build a team.
Ok, you got me on New Trier not having 5,000 students. They only have 4,129 attending as of June 2013. BTW, Josh Balch (Yale/CYA), and Matt Lindblad (Dartmouth/CYA), Tommy Wingles (San Jose /Team Illinois), and John Moore (NYR/ Mission) all went to New Trier HS. Kind of gives you an idea of the depth that HS has.
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
We're splitting hairs here and probably boring everyone else, so I'll bow out after this.
Montoya played two years at Loyola Academy (I'm friends with LA's head coach DJ LaVarre), then went to the Texas Tornados of the NAHL before joining the NTDP. Craig Anderson did indeed play for Barrington before joining CYA.
4 guys over a 35 year span? You must be trollin'. Rob Woodward played 4 years at Deerfield H.S. and was the 29th overall pick in the 1989 NHL draft his senior year before going straight to Michigan State. 2 years later Scott Dean was drafted straight out of Lake Forest H.S. before joining Michigan State. Sean Berens played 3 years at Fremd before spending a season with Dubuque of the USHL, then Michigan State. John Sadowski played 3 years at Loyola before joining Dubuque, then UNH where he was one of the top two way players in the Nation and nearly won a National Championship. Both Berens and Sadowski (especially Berens) would likely have made the NHL if they weren't undersized.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=5790
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=1305
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=22026
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=29346
I would agree that IL H.S. hockey is on par with Midget AA, rather than AAA. AA would be like Tier 2. The NAHL is the premier Tier 2 Junior league in the U.S. It is not unreasonable to think that some of the top Midget Tier 2 players would matriculate to the NAHL, while most of the top AAA players (Tier 1) would matriculate to the Tier 1 Junior league, the USHL.
We're splitting hairs here and probably boring everyone else, so I'll bow out after this.
Montoya played two years at Loyola Academy (I'm friends with LA's head coach DJ LaVarre), then went to the Texas Tornados of the NAHL before joining the NTDP. Craig Anderson did indeed play for Barrington before joining CYA.
4 guys over a 35 year span? You must be trollin'. Rob Woodward played 4 years at Deerfield H.S. and was the 29th overall pick in the 1989 NHL draft his senior year before going straight to Michigan State. 2 years later Scott Dean was drafted straight out of Lake Forest H.S. before joining Michigan State. Sean Berens played 3 years at Fremd before spending a season with Dubuque of the USHL, then Michigan State. John Sadowski played 3 years at Loyola before joining Dubuque, then UNH where he was one of the top two way players in the Nation and nearly won a National Championship. Both Berens and Sadowski (especially Berens) would likely have made the NHL if they weren't undersized.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=5790
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=1305
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=22026
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=29346
I would agree that IL H.S. hockey is on par with Midget AA, rather than AAA. AA would be like Tier 2. The NAHL is the premier Tier 2 Junior league in the U.S. It is not unreasonable to think that some of the top Midget Tier 2 players would matriculate to the NAHL, while most of the top AAA players (Tier 1) would matriculate to the Tier 1 Junior league, the USHL.
Last edited:
norm1909
Larry Normandin
Re: Aurora University wants to add D3 hockey
Nice , Woodward was drafted in 1989, that's 24 years ago, and the other 3 players you mentioned graduated HS 13+ years ago. That gives us 7 non-AAA players identified over the past 24 years, and I'm sure that number is 3x that, which is still only 21 over the 24 years since Woodward.
However, I'm talking about NOW, Aurora is recruiting NOW, and the examples I gave you are RECENT players/guys playing NOW. Again, I said circa 95% didn't play HS hockey. That leaves 5% that did. The fact is that if Aurora relies heavily on Illinois HS players to fill their roster they're toast in the NCHA. That is not trolling that is what it is.
Offer your pal DJ LaVarre this inquiry," If your Loyola Ramblers played 25 games against the AAA Midget Majors in Illinois would they win more than 3 games ? That should clarify the CURRENTdisparity beween IL HS hockey and IL. AAA hockey, because DJ's team is generally the #2 team in Illinois HS . Most of the guys playing Illinois HS hockey have no goal of playing D1 or D3 hockey, they're happy to play club hockey if anything at all. The Illinois Tier2/AA players play at that AA midget level in hopes of either catching on in the NAHL, or just play that AA level because their HS doesn't have a team.
Nice , Woodward was drafted in 1989, that's 24 years ago, and the other 3 players you mentioned graduated HS 13+ years ago. That gives us 7 non-AAA players identified over the past 24 years, and I'm sure that number is 3x that, which is still only 21 over the 24 years since Woodward.
However, I'm talking about NOW, Aurora is recruiting NOW, and the examples I gave you are RECENT players/guys playing NOW. Again, I said circa 95% didn't play HS hockey. That leaves 5% that did. The fact is that if Aurora relies heavily on Illinois HS players to fill their roster they're toast in the NCHA. That is not trolling that is what it is.
Offer your pal DJ LaVarre this inquiry," If your Loyola Ramblers played 25 games against the AAA Midget Majors in Illinois would they win more than 3 games ? That should clarify the CURRENTdisparity beween IL HS hockey and IL. AAA hockey, because DJ's team is generally the #2 team in Illinois HS . Most of the guys playing Illinois HS hockey have no goal of playing D1 or D3 hockey, they're happy to play club hockey if anything at all. The Illinois Tier2/AA players play at that AA midget level in hopes of either catching on in the NAHL, or just play that AA level because their HS doesn't have a team.