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Attendance at NCAA

Re: Attendance at NCAA

I attended the men's regionals today at the DCU Center in Worcester. First game featured #3 ranked Boston College, a virtual home team, vs. Alaska-Fairbanks. Second game pitted #4 North Dakota vs. #8 Yale. Maybe Worcester is not quite as close to home as BC is, but it's still only about a 2 hour drive.

DCU Center capacity is 14,800. Attendance today was 6,500. I was shocked. When the men play the Beanpot tournament in early February, it's played at the Boston Bruins home rink, the TD Bank Garden. The place is completely banged out, SRO for sure.

I'm not sure why attendance was so low today, but two very close and very exciting games were played and each definitely lacked that intangible excitement that only a sold out venue can bring.

If two games featuring the men's #3 and #4 teams can't draw more than 6,000 then expecting 5 or anything close to it for a women's game is very appropriately unthinkable.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

IceIsNice said:
I attended the men's regionals today at the DCU Center in Worcester. First game featured #3 ranked Boston College, a virtual home team, vs. Alaska-Fairbanks. Second game pitted #4 North Dakota vs. #8 Yale. Maybe Worcester is not quite as close to home as BC is, but it's still only about a 2 hour drive.

DCU Center capacity is 14,800. Attendance today was 6,500. I was shocked. When the men play the Beanpot tournament in early February, it's played at the Boston Bruins home rink, the TD Bank Garden. The place is completely banged out, SRO for sure.

I'm not sure why attendance was so low today, but two very close and very exciting games were played and each definitely lacked that intangible excitement that only a sold out venue can bring.

If two games featuring the men's #3 and #4 teams can't draw more than 6,000 then expecting 5 or anything close to it for a women's game is very appropriately unthinkable.
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Good perspective. Perhaps attendance expectations are too high given the variety of competiting entertainment options available (including free ones on TV such as March Madness).

Beanpot notwithstanding, with the latest abysmal attendance <200 also for the U18 worlds in Chicago, it seems to me that holding major events in large metropolitan areas is a big part of the problem. (As perhaps is wearout, as previously noted for Minneapolis.

Locating events in smaller towns where they are not used to having major sporting events of any kind, typically generates huge publicity, and seems to serve as a rallying cry for exceptional involvement from its surrounding communities for both volunteers and attendance. I've seen this on several occasions. It also becomes a richer experience for the athletes, as they're treated like superstars in the community. Of course, you have to have the sporting facilities to host the event.

Ironically, governing bodies seem to shy away from such locations for whatever reasons except as a last resort. To me, it's a no-brainer.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

Trillium said:
Good perspective. Perhaps attendance expectations are too high given the variety of competiting entertainment options available (including free ones on TV such as March Madness).

Beanpot notwithstanding, with the latest abysmal attendance <200 also for the U18 worlds in Chicago, it seems to me that holding major events in large metropolitan areas is a big part of the problem. (As perhaps is wearout, as previously noted for Minneapolis.

Locating events in smaller towns where they are not used to having major sporting events of any kind, typically generates huge publicity, and seems to serve as a rallying cry for exceptional involvement from its surrounding communities for both volunteers and attendance. I've seen this on several occasions. It also becomes a richer experience for the athletes, as they're treated like superstars in the community. Of course, you have to have the sporting facilities to host the event.

Ironically, governing bodies seem to shy away from such locations for whatever reasons except as a last resort. To me, it's a no-brainer.
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That only works in Canada. This is the US. Politics, not hockey, is the religion.:o

The event is in the suburbs, at a rink that actually has the size(locker room and training facilities) to accommodate the number of teams involved. A rarity to be sure.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

Maybe the fact that so many of the games are blowouts comes into play. I'd be curious to know the attendance of the gold medal game
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

IceIsNice said:
DCU Center capacity is 14,800. Attendance today was 6,500. I was shocked. When the men play the Beanpot tournament in early February, it's played at the Boston Bruins home rink, the TD Bank Garden. The place is completely banged out, SRO for sure.

If two games featuring the men's #3 and #4 teams can't draw more than 6,000 then expecting 5 or anything close to it for a women's game is very appropriately unthinkable.
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Once again, I think this is pretty clearly a case of the NCAA pricing the games out of the reach of the casual fan.

The in St. Paul attendance of the Wisconsin/St. Cloud game was just over 7,000. The same two teams played one week earlier, in the same building and drew more 13,000. The NCAA game was on a Saturday evening, while the WCHA game was on a Friday afternoon. So with a better time slot and a more important game, the attendance was cut in half! The only other difference was the ticket price. The NCAA game cost $52 for a ticket, with the Final Five, you could get in the building for $15 (or $35 for a good seat).

With both the men and the women, the NCAA is putting a price point that far exceeds the demand. The die-hards will find a way at nearly any ticket price, but the casual fan isn't going to pay that much money. Both men and women can and do get larger crowds, when the fans aren't being priced out of the building.

Maybe the fact that so many of the games are blowouts comes into play. I'd be curious to know the attendance of the gold medal game
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Once you get the the NCAA tourney level, its pretty rare to see a blowout, and there have been several multi-ot games, including this years final of course. Plus, it seems like the number of regular season blow outs is falling, as the teams at the bottom start to catch up a bit.

But in answer to the question, its apple to oranges, but pretty much all the womens games at vancouver were sell outs. The semi-final and medal round games, and Canada's opening game, all drew more than 16,000 at GM Place. All the rest of the games were at UBC and all drew between 5,200-5,500.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

I'll just take this in a very, very different direction. (And that is not to suggest that previous points have not been valid!!!)

Mostly I believe it's a cultural issue. In the US it's simply not part of the culture, we aren't "trained" as children to cheer for girls/womens' sports. From the time we're little both boys and girls are trained (by nealry all of the adults around us, including TV, radio, video, movies . . all mass media) to root for and cheer for boys. There's the NFL, NBA, MLB . . . so, I'd say until cheering for girls/women you don't know is as cool as cheering for boys/men you don't know a sport like women's hockey - regardless of the quality of play - will never generate much interest.

Let's just start there and see what posters do with this.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

binnyrus said:
I'd say until cheering for girls/women you don't know is as cool as cheering for boys/men you don't know.
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The coolness factor may play a role at the high school level (especially among students), but I doubt it's a major factor.

Put it this way, why are more people in LA Lakers fans than Clippers fans? Sure, being a Lakers fan is cooler, but it's also because the Lakers win, and going to Lakers games is entertaining. Going to a Clippers game isn't nearly as fun.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

Hux said:
That only works in Canada. This is the US. Politics, not hockey, is the religion.:o

The event is in the suburbs, at a rink that actually has the size(locker room and training facilities) to accommodate the number of teams involved. A rarity to be sure.
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my two cents, Boston may have been more in the neighborhood of hockey hotbed..
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

unofan said:
The coolness factor may play a role at the high school level (especially among students), but I doubt it's a major factor.

Put it this way, why are more people in LA Lakers fans than Clippers fans? Sure, being a Lakers fan is cooler, but it's also because the Lakers win, and going to Lakers games is entertaining. Going to a Clippers game isn't nearly as fun.
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Maybe "cool" was a bad choice in wording . . . . I didn't mean like "cool" as in Jack Nicholson. I meant a socially accpeted thing to do. When I was a kid my parents dragged me to every sporting event my bother's were part of . . . but rarely did my parents attend my sporting events, much less drag my brother's along. Why? The girls sport is not seen as important enough to watch, much less support vocally.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

binnyrus said:
Maybe "cool" was a bad choice in wording . . . . I didn't mean like "cool" as in Jack Nicholson. I meant a socially accpeted thing to do. When I was a kid my parents dragged me to every sporting event my bother's were part of . . . but rarely did my parents attend my sporting events, much less drag my brother's along. Why? The girls sport is not seen as important enough to watch, much less support vocally.
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Just curious, but were your brother(s) older?

IceIsNice said:
This was your best effort at identifying a "cool" icon? :eek:
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In fairness, I mentioned the Lakers first.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

unofan said:
Just curious, but were your brother(s) older?
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Yes, but not by much. Ahh, the hazard of using oneself as an example. I had many friends in HS that were the oldest whose parents never, ever, ever came to games much less had younger siblings (male or female) come.


unofan said:
In fairness, I mentioned the Lakers first.
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Yes, you did. It probably also shows my age and also my general level of not being cool. :cool: :rolleyes:
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

binnyrus said:
I'd say until cheering for girls/women you don't know is as cool as cheering for boys/men you don't know a sport like women's hockey - regardless of the quality of play - will never generate much interest.
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Sure, thats one of several reasons that the womens game doesn't get the attention of the mens game, but I don't think thats really the problem here. I don't think or expect that the Womens Frozen Four will ever generate the attendance or attention that the mens version does.

What I think the cause for concern here is that a womens event that used to draw 4000 fans to the championship game, drew less than 2,000 this year, and drew just slightly more for the semi-final which featured the home team. For a sport that is still very much in the growing stage, seeing the people watching the marquee event fall, is something that needs to be fixed for the health of the game.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

Nowheresville said:
What I think the cause for concern here is that a womens event that used to draw 4000 fans to the championship game, drew less than 2,000 this year, and drew just slightly more for the semi-final which featured the home team. For a sport that is still very much in the growing stage, seeing the people watching the marquee event fall, is something that needs to be fixed for the health of the game.
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Agreed. I'm not expecting women's hockey crowds to approach the men's anytime soon. But I think a lot of us thought when women's hockey became an NCAA sport, attendance would trend upward -- and women's hockey's attendance relative to men's hockey would become analogous to women's basketball's attendance to men's basketball.

I think instead you've observed the following in lots of places
(1) low attendance that's reported in the 100-200 level
(2) a peak in interest the first couple seasons a team is really good for the curiosity factor, and crowds on the order of 1000-2000
(3) a sharp decline and a steady state attendance of more like 500-800

Most schools are still in phase (1). Places like Mercyhurst are in phase (2) now. Most of the traditional powers are in stage (3).
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

Nowheresville said:
What I think the cause for concern here is that a womens event that used to draw 4000 fans to the championship game, drew less than 2,000 this year, and drew just slightly more for the semi-final which featured the home team. For a sport that is still very much in the growing stage, seeing the people watching the marquee event fall, is something that needs to be fixed for the health of the game.
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I think you've unfortunately got a couple of things working against women's hockey...

1. This has already been discussed but it bears repeating one more time -- the prices at the Frozen Four are ridiculously high, particularly for a non-revenue-generating sport.

2. The novelty of the sport is wearing off. The sport was added to the Olympics 12 years ago, and the women's WCHA has been around for 11 seasons. A lot of attendees in the past were first-timers, and came to games for the sake of checking it out. They came, they saw, and they haven't been back.
 
Re: Attendance at NCAA

dave1381 said:
(3) a sharp decline and a steady state attendance of more like 500-800...
Most of the traditional powers are in stage (3).
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Minnesota still averaged over 1,100 this season for it's home dates (includes WCHA and NCAA quarters, neither of which helped this total, bu t not semis or final.) The decline during the regular season hasn't been sharp, but more of a slow drift.

binnyrus said:
Mostly I believe it's a cultural issue. In the US it's simply not part of the culture, we aren't "trained" as children to cheer for girls/womens' sports.
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So we know a number of reasons why most don't watch the women's games. Why do we? That might make a good off-season topic, because for all of its supposed flaws, the game managed to hook most of the people on this forum.:)
 
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