Atlantic Hockey Summer News

[Jim]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

You beat me to the bunch 5-hole. I've been "lurking" for a while on here, not sure when to open my big mouth.

Ditto on pretty much everything.

I will add though, that the CHA would still be here, if the AHA would have let it:

With Wayne State losing money (And what in Detroit/Michigan isn't?), the league was on its last legs. We all know the rumors... Mercyhurst and Canisius were ready willing to come over to the CHA and give us back our six team league, which all of the sudden was Great Lakes based, with a couple outliers. AHA would've been 8 teams, and all would've been great with the world.

Except that 'Hurst and the Griffs wanted an insurance policy, so to speak, that if the CHA still blew up (we'll never know now) they would be welcomed back with open arms... a promise that would never be made.

I can't say what I would've preferred, because at this point, I don't know.

I'm not sure that the Mercyhurst, Canisius thing was really in the works. Seems pretty unlikely to me when you consider that Canisuius has very few scholarships and consistently supported a limit, and the Mercyhurst AD has on a couple of occassions supported leaving the limit where it is now. The coach has advocated adding scholarships, but hasn't been backed up by the administration. As far as the guarentee of a right to return, unless you could be certain that nothing else would change, how could you make such a deal? the CHA was just so unstable. The odds were that it would eventually blow up and it would have put the AHA in an impossible situation with respect to its own future development and growth. It is a little absurd though to blame the CHA's demise on the AHA, especially when the supposed reason was some unsubstantiated rumor.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

A perfect example of an istitution that walked-the-walk with regards to "increasing committment." They left for a league that better fitted them, quite amenably (sp?) and with respect.

Certainly RIT would be a good fit in ECAC Hockey, and it seems as if that might be the institute's long-term goal (given the impending move to Liberty League in all sports, where St. Lawrence, RPI, Union, and Clarkson already are). But we all know there's no room, even if RIT did want to make that jump. Quinnipiac took advantage of the Vermont move, and good for them, but no one can just make a conference opening appear by wishing for it.


Powers &8^]

 

[Frozen]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Certainly RIT would be a good fit in ECAC Hockey, and it seems as if that might be the institute's long-term goal (given the impending move to Liberty League in all sports, where St. Lawrence, RPI, Union, and Clarkson already are). But we all know there's no room, even if RIT did want to make that jump. Quinnipiac took advantage of the Vermont move, and good for them, but no one can just make a conference opening appear by wishing for it.


Powers &8^]

*closes eyes, clicks my shiny orange shoes together three times*

Seriously, is there any schools in ECAC that isn't giving out scholarships like us? I don't want RIT to jump into the big boys without at least some ammunition so to speak-- I like seeing RIT at the top half of the standings every year rather than being perennial cellar-dwellers.

This is why I THINK AHA is the best fit for us at this moment, warts and all that.

 

[kingdobbs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

*closes eyes, clicks my shiny orange shoes together three times*

Seriously, is there any schools in ECAC that isn't giving out scholarships like us? I don't want RIT to jump into the big boys without at least some ammunition so to speak-- I like seeing RIT at the top half of the standings every year rather than being perennial cellar-dwellers.

This is why I THINK AHA is the best fit for us at this moment, warts and all that.

More than half the league, in fact, is non-scholarship.

 

[Spydey629]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

I'm not sure that the Mercyhurst, Canisius thing was really in the works. Seems pretty unlikely to me when you consider that Canisuius has very few scholarships and consistently supported a limit, and the Mercyhurst AD has on a couple of occassions supported leaving the limit where it is now. The coach has advocated adding scholarships, but hasn't been backed up by the administration. As far as the guarentee of a right to return, unless you could be certain that nothing else would change, how could you make such a deal? the CHA was just so unstable. The odds were that it would eventually blow up and it would have put the AHA in an impossible situation with respect to its own future development and growth. It is a little absurd though to blame the CHA's demise on the AHA, especially when the supposed reason was some unsubstantiated rumor.

I'm not really 'blaming' the AHA. I honestly don't think Wayne State could've survived, given the current economy in Michigan. Air Force started the ball rolling, and I am past the point on holding a grudge.

And I am not exactly sure about Meryhurst's commitment to "cost-containment", either. Particularly with the reports out there that they may be Huntsville's competition to be the 12th member of the CCHA.

http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=86460

 

[CornwallAce]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

*closes eyes, clicks my shiny orange shoes together three times*

Seriously, is there any schools in ECAC that isn't giving out scholarships like us? I don't want RIT to jump into the big boys without at least some ammunition so to speak-- I like seeing RIT at the top half of the standings every year rather than being perennial cellar-dwellers.

Union is one who can not give out scholarships. Being D3 and all, and not being grandfathered.

 

[RITProf]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Certainly RIT would be a good fit in ECAC Hockey, and it seems as if that might be the institute's long-term goal (given the impending move to Liberty League in all sports, where St. Lawrence, RPI, Union, and Clarkson already are). But we all know there's no room, even if RIT did want to make that jump. Quinnipiac took advantage of the Vermont move, and good for them, but no one can just make a conference opening appear by wishing for it.

I had an interesting conversation with someone from one of the prominent ECAC schools at the Albany regional this year (remember this is just the opinion of one guy I talked to). He mentioned to me that they's love to have RIT in the ECAC for various reasons (tradition, academic fit, etc.) and I jokingly said that they could swap us for Union. His reply was that they were OK with Union but would prefer to swap us for Quinnipiac since "they didn't fit in the ECAC at all"!

Interesting perspective. Of course I have no idea if that is prevalent or just one random guy who hates QU.

 

[komey1]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

QU does not necessarily "fit" the academic profile of the ECAC. They probably belong more to Hockey East for that. That said, I doubt they would take a team directly from the AHA. The ECAC may eventually become a stepping stone for them.

RIT would be more similar to the ECAC in that respect.

 

[Spydey629]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

I had an interesting conversation with someone from one of the prominent ECAC schools at the Albany regional this year (remember this is just the opinion of one guy I talked to). He mentioned to me that they's love to have RIT in the ECAC for various reasons (tradition, academic fit, etc.) and I jokingly said that they could swap us for Union. His reply was that they were OK with Union but would prefer to swap us for Quinnipiac since "they didn't fit in the ECAC at all"!

Interesting perspective. Of course I have no idea if that is prevalent or just one random guy who hates QU.

Be kinda fun to see QU in the league with Bobby Mo and Sacred Heart. Then we can start rumors about what other NEC schools are going to add hockey, so we can have all those "Northeast Conference Hockey will destroy College Hockey" threads...

 

[AFHockeyFan]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

In Air Force's first year in the AHA, they were 5th in the standings and the #4 seed in the AHA tournament. In fact, they have only won the regular season title just once - shared with RIT. I think part of it was a perfect storm for them - weaker league along with a great recruiting class that included Fairchild, Ehn, Flynn, and Volkening.

Good point. The move to the AHA coincided with a much better team on the ice. Andrew Volkening ('10) was the best goalie in Academy history, and a big part of the three tournament appearances. Fairchild and Hajner (also '10) were immediate contributors as freshmen during the 06-07 season. Eric Ehn ('08) and Greg Flynn ('09) were both All-Americans. If Jacques Lamoureux (also All-American) had been eligible in '08 (sat out after transferring), that team would have been amazing.

I don't think conference strength was as much a factor in Air Force's decision/success as tournament format. As a 5 or 6 seed in the CHA, you had to win three tournament games in three days, something no AHA team has ever done either.

 

[schiegs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Certainly RIT would be a good fit in ECAC Hockey,

QU does not necessarily "fit" the academic profile of the ECAC. They probably belong more to Hockey East for that....
RIT would be more similar to the ECAC in that respect.

Food for thought:

While acceptance rate is only one of many ways to quantify a school's academic prowess, it is the most often cited. Simply stated, the lower the acceptance rate, the more selective you are based upon your applicant pool. Less than 50% acceptance seems to be the benchmark to call a school "tough to get into."

I randomly chose these....

SLU = 33.8%
Union= 36.6%
QU= 44.8%
RIT= 60.4%

Source: US News & World Report. Latest available (Fall 2008) numbers.

Based soley on these numbers (which is admitedly myopic) there are about a half-dozen AHA schools that would be a "better fit academically" than RIT.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Based soley on these numbers (which is admitedly myopic) there are about a half-dozen AHA schools that would be a "better fit academically" than RIT.

Very myopic. RIT is a much (much) bigger school, so they have room for more acceptances. =)

That said, RIT is aware that they don't appear very selective, and I think their average SAT score is lower than they'd like.


Powers &8^]

 

[burgie12]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Food for thought:

While acceptance rate is only one of many ways to quantify a school's academic prowess, it is the most often cited. Simply stated, the lower the acceptance rate, the more selective you are based upon your applicant pool. Less than 50% acceptance seems to be the benchmark to call a school "tough to get into."

I randomly chose these....

SLU = 33.8%
Union= 36.6%
QU= 44.8%
RIT= 60.4%

Source: US News & World Report. Latest available (Fall 2008) numbers.

Based soley on these numbers (which is admitedly myopic) there are about a half-dozen AHA schools that would be a "better fit academically" than RIT.

You can't blindly throw acceptance rates into a discussion. Consideration has to be made that RIT has 13k students, or more than double the size of the other three schools being considered. Even though RIT is a well-known school, they can't command that they get twice as many applications. This stat (as you said) is not accurate. The fault in this case happens to lie with the size of the schools, not their quality.

 

[schiegs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Very myopic. RIT is a much (much) bigger school, so they have room for more acceptances. =)

You can't blindly throw acceptance rates into a discussion. Consideration has to be made that RIT has 13k students, or more than double the size of the other three schools being considered. Even though RIT is a well-known school, they can't command that they get twice as many applications. This stat (as you said) is not accurate. The fault in this case happens to lie with the size of the schools, not their quality.

Perhaps the reason they are such a large institution (comparitively) is that they admit too many applicants.

Maybe some better comps....

RIT 60.4% - 16,494
BU 54.3% - 31,766
UConn 54.4% - 24,273
BC 26.2% - 13,903

Just throwing numbers out there.

 

[burgie12]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Perhaps the reason they are such a large institution (comparitively) is that they admit too many applicants.

Maybe some better comps....

RIT 60.4% - 16,494
BU 54.3% - 31,766
UConn 54.4% - 24,273
BC 26.2% - 13,903

Just throwing numbers out there.

Alright, I'll bite. But this is my last comment on the nature, since we started this conversation knowing that it's a flawed statistic.

UConn rakes in the applications, they're a state school and a number of students from across the state apply there.

Just hazarding a guess, but BU and BC both benefit from the fact that they are located in Boston. Think that location doesn't matter? Where would you rather live: the heart of New England, or the middle of nowhere upstate New York? RIT will struggle to bring in applicants, even though they are a well-respected school.

And, my last point, not entirely pointed or "Aha!" worthy, but RIT has 8 distinct, very separate colleges within the school, and they strive to provide high-quality, industry-worthy education for the students. That, is my uneducated guess at why the number of students is exceptionally high.

 

[Jim]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Dream all you want, Quinipiac isn't leaving the ECAC in this lifetime...these discussions of "fit" are always interesting and usually wrong. The ECAC had a bunch of choices, and if the decision was made on academic fit, I suspect that Holy Cross would have been the choice. It is similar in profile to Colgate, St Lawrence and Union and mostly a liberal arts college as opposed to a major university or technical school. Sizewise it is in a range closer to the smaller ECAC schools, too. In many respects, these schools view their competition as the D-3 NESCACs rather than larger universities.

Competetively the Crusaders regularly play the Ivies in football for example. Usually a couple of Ivies show up on their other sports schedules too. But it didn't have the committment to success in hockey that the Q had. Indeed Quinnipiac essentially made a decision that hockey would be its marquee sport. That and not academic issues was what lead to the decision to add the Bobcats. It didn't have much if anything to do with academic or any other form of compatability. It was about hockey.

Quinipiac on the other hand is a fine school, but is much more geared to preparing its students for jobs, not academic researchers or graduate schools. It isn't Harvard or Yale by any stretch..heck it isn't UCONN by a long shot. But it was looking to be a top ice hockey program. If another opening shows up that is what will make the difference.

 

[schiegs]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Just hazarding a guess, but BU and BC both benefit from the fact that they are located in Boston. Think that location doesn't matter?

Indeed BU benefits from a larger applicant pool in the Boston area (compared to greater Rochester), but is hurt by the fact that you can't swing a dead cat without hitting another college/university vying for the same applicants. Can't remember the source but Boston has the highest ratio of college students of any major city in the country.

BC is a bit different in that its applicant pool is much more nationally oriented.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

BC is a bit different in that its applicant pool is much more nationally oriented.

Post - Flutie, that is. Prior to that it was much more of a regional school than it is now, or at least that's the impression I got from a student who went there shortly after Flutie left.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Very myopic. RIT is a much (much) bigger school, so they have room for more acceptances. =)

That said, RIT is aware that they don't appear very selective, and I think their average SAT score is lower than they'd like.


Powers &8^]

Yes, very myopic. RIT has many wide-ranging majors in many different colleges, including a large Fine Arts as well as renowned Photography and Woodworking programs. My guess is that those programs aren't as concerned about SAT scores in their admission standards as Micro-Electronic Engineering or Computer Science. This is not a shot at artsy type majors, just a simple fact that their applicants are probably judged by different criteria.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: Atlantic Hockey Summer News

Seriously, is there any schools in ECAC that isn't giving out scholarships like us?

Union
Harvard
Dartmouth
Princeton
Yale
Cornell
Brown

Not sure about Colgate, but the rest do offer scholarships.