Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

[Old Pio]

Conflicting reports from the scene. Reports that Gifford has died. Reports that she survived, with a gunshot wound to the head. Up to 6 others reported killed. A total of 18 wounded. Reports indicate a 21-year old man has been taken into custody and may have been shot in the process. Reports of a search for a possible second suspect.

Ms Giffords was holding a "meet your constituents" event at a Safeway in Tucson. Reports indicate the man approached her as she was meeting with folks and began firing indiscriminantly.

Several of her staff members were among the wounded.

Hospital spokesman tells CNN Giffords is alive and is in surgery, in critical condition.

Ms. Giffords is married to astronaut Mark Kelly

Among the wounded: Federal judge John M. Roll. Fox is reporting the judge has died.

Hospital news conference: Giffords out of surgery. Dr. says he's "optimistic" about her recovery. He confirms one death, a child around 9.

Suspect identified as Jared Loughner, and his You Tube and various other postings indicate a profoundly disturbed human being.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Conflicting reports from the scene. Reports that Gifford has died. Reports that she survived, with a gunshot wound to the head. Up to 6 others reported killed. A total of 18 wounded. Reports indicate a 21-year old man has been taken into custody and may have been shot in the process. Reports of a search for a possible second suspect.

Ms Giffords was holding a "meet your constituents" event at a Safeway in Tucson. Reports indicate the man approached her as she was meeting with folks and began firing indiscriminantly.

Several of her staff members were among the wounded.

Hospital spokesman tells CNN Giffords is alive and is in surgery, in critical condition.

Ms. Giffords is married to astronaut Mark Kelly

Among the wounded: Federal judge John M. Roll. Fox is reporting the judge has died.

Hospital news conference: Giffords out of surgery. Dr. says he's "optimistic" about her recovery. He confirms one death, a child around 9.

Suspect identified as Jared Loughner, and his You Tube and various other postings indicate a profoundly disturbed human being.

OP-The neurosurgeon, Dr. Rhee said he was as optimistic as he could be under the circumstances. Reading between the lines medically that does not sound all that good. Apparently the bullet passed completely thorugh her head-but of course we are not privy to where it hit and the angle. it could be superficial but from the sounds of this-this is not someting that we will know the prognosis of for some time. There is of course the immediate injury from the bullet, but there will no doubt be reactive swelling which can even be more of a problem. Here's hoping for the best.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

OP-The neurosurgeon, Dr. Rhee said he was as optimistic as he could be under the circumstances. Reading between the lines medically that does not sound all that good. Apparently the bullet passed completely thorugh her head-but of course we are not privy to where it hit and the angle. it could be superficial but from the sounds of this-this is not someting that we will know the prognosis of for some time. There is of course the immediate injury from the bullet, but there will no doubt be reactive swelling which can even be more of a problem. Here's hoping for the best.

That's my sense of it. I hope I'm wrong. As my father the surgeon used to say, when you see a surgeon on TV explaining "the surgery went well," he generally is saying: "I didn't kill this dude. He was alive when I left the hospital." So the fact that Ms. Giffords is still alive is, of course, good news. But as you say, it will take time before we learn the existence or extent of any deficits. I would say the odds are against her.

For the most part, the coverage has been appropriate. Although the sheriff of Pima County (several times) during his presser talked about "hate" and "prejudice" and "vitriol," in our society and how that played a role in setting off this nutbar. Giffords and Judge Roll were/are evidently friends of his, so he can be forgiven for that simplistic analysis and what it implies for the future of the First Amendment. Take this website for instance. Maybe this dude is a college hockey fan who wandered into the Cafe and got his inspiration from the occasionally spirited debates we have here.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

That's my sense of it. I hope I'm wrong. As my father the surgeon used to say, when you see a surgeon on TV explaining "the surgery went well," he generally is saying: "I didn't kill this dude. He was alive when I left the hospital." So the fact that Ms. Giffords is still alive is, of course, good news. But as you say, it will take time before we learn the existence or extent of any deficits. I would say the odds are against her.

For the most part, the coverage has been appropriate. Although the sheriff of Pima County (several times) during his presser talked about "hate" and "prejudice" and "vitriol," in our society and how that played a role in setting off this nutbar. Giffords and Judge Roll were/are evidently friends of his, so he can be forgiven for that simplistic analysis and what it implies for the future of the First Amendment. Take this website for instance. Maybe this dude is a college hockey fan who wandered into the Cafe and got his inspiration from the occasionally spirited debates we have here.

I am truly concerned about the number of nutballs out there.Years ago many of these unstable individuals would be committed-hospitalized to prevent them from wrecking havoc on the population. Nowadays the poplular treatment is medication -which is often not taken-acting like a chemical blanket thrown over the individual. They are roaming the streets and on the honor system to take their prescribed medication for control. Something is wrong with this picture.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

I am truly concerned about the number of nutballs out there.Years ago many of these unstable individuals would be committed-hospitalized to prevent them from wrecking havoc on the population. Nowadays the poplular treatment is medication -which is often not taken-acting like a chemical blanket thrown over the individual. They are roaming the streets and on the honor system to take their prescribed medication for control. Something is wrong with this picture.

I was thinking along those lines earlier. The story here is probably that a deeply disturbed, psychotic individual was not diagnosed as a danger to himself and others and not confined until his problems could be assessed. We've emptied out our "insane asylums," frequently dumping these folks on city streets, with a pocket full of pills, and instructions on dosage, but no followup.

Already way too many people in the blogosphere are politicizing this tragic event. Some blaming Sarah Palin by name. If the first name that pops into your head when you hear about a massacre outside a Safeway is Sarah Palin, you've got your own problems. The guy I first thought of was Colin Ferguson, who shot up the LIRR several years ago, killing many, who then defended himself in court. THAT guy was a nutbar, and this guy in Tucson is also a nutbar, IMHO.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event.

"I don't see the connection," between the fundraisers featuring weapons and Saturday's shooting, said John Ellinwood, Kelly's spokesman.

My favorite quote of the whole thing. It doesn't sound like it was connected with this...but you never know. A politician firing automatic weapons into the air trying to make the point of removing her from office and 2 months later she's shot in the head.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

My favorite quote of the whole thing. It doesn't sound like it was connected with this...but you never know. A politician firing automatic weapons into the air trying to make the point of removing her from office and 2 months later she's shot in the head.

How easily you smear a guy who served his country. Shame.

 

[Dude Love]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

How easily you smear a guy who served his country. Shame.

You can "serve your country" and still be a crazy poopwad.

And wouldn't she be a congresswoman?

 

[gojackets]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

How easily you smear a guy who served his country. Shame.

I really don't see how the two are connected. Are you saying if i serve in the military I got free reign of whatever I want to do in your eyes?

 

[gojackets]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Latest report....she is out of surgery...bullet went through her head. She is awake and is coherent, recognized her husband

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Latest report....she is out of surgery...bullet went through her head. She is awake and is coherent, recognized her husband

That's extraordinarily good news. If she survives this with no neurological deficits, she's walking with God. Earlier this year when Jesse Martin's neck was broken, his doctor said 99% of people who suffer that same injury don't survive. And of those who do survive, the majority are paralyzed. This week, Jesse's back in class. Let's hope Ms. Giffords has a similarly positive outcome.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

I really don't see how the two are connected. Are you saying if i serve in the military I got free reign of whatever I want to do in your eyes?

If you serve in the military or don't you shouldn't be smeared by people trying to connect you to a massacre of innocents because they don't like your politics. It's a shameful tactic, but the uber lefties out there (which you may or may not be) are already blaming Palin, Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. etc. Much in the same way Bill Clinton tried to draw a straight line from Limbaugh to McVeigh. It was bull sh*t then and it's still bull sh*t.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

If you serve in the military or don't you shouldn't be smeared by people trying to connect you to a massacre of innocents because they don't like your politics. It's a shameful tactic, but the uber lefties out there (which you may or may not be) are already blaming Palin, Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. etc. Much in the same way Bill Clinton tried to draw a straight line from Limbaugh to McVeigh. It was bull sh*t then and it's still bull sh*t.

I really don't see a connection between his former military service and his political career...other than the fact that he was wearing his marine uniform and firing m16's on his political material..he chose to exploit his service for political gains. I didn't chose to post this because of his military service...to suggest that is ignorant. I said...it probably has nothing to do with it...but it clearly has an impact on the thought process. To say that you can't see any connection between the two events is kind of insulting. The people blaming Palin et al are stupid, I agree. As I'm sure you are aware the political climate in Arizona is very charged and a lot of people are not happy....and this is clearly a result of that.


Apparently there was another "device" at Giffords office that has been removed and detonated. To say this wasn't politically motivated would be insane.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

You can "serve your country" and still be a crazy poopwad.

And wouldn't she be a congresswoman?

Glad to see you're focused on the style guide. She's a congressman, not congresswoman or congressperson or anything else. Congressman.

Of course, all sorts of popwads have served: "Dr." Hassan comes to mind, as does the sergeant who fragged some officers. Oh, wait, they are Muslims, can't be calling them names, can we? But the "analysis" that since this guy was an ex-Marine, who set up a half a*s firing range to charge people a buck a shot, that he's somehow connected to or responsible for today's outrage is, at best, illiterate.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

I really don't see a connection between his former military service and his political career...other than the fact that he was wearing his marine uniform and firing m16's on his political material..he chose to exploit his service for political gains. I didn't chose to post this because of his military service...to suggest that is ignorant. I said...it probably has nothing to do with it...but it clearly has an impact on the thought process. To say that you can't see any connection between the two events is kind of insulting. The people blaming Palin et al are stupid, I agree. As I'm sure you are aware the political climate in Arizona is very charged and a lot of people are not happy....and this is clearly a result of that.


Apparently there was another "device" at Giffords office that has been removed and detonated. To say this wasn't politically motivated would be insane.

Nice of you to go waaaay out on the limb to grudgingly admit this poor unsuccessful candidate "probably" isn't responsible for today's outrage. A favorite Nixon tactic would have him saying "others have said candidate X is a communist sympathizer. . .but I wouldn't say that. . .despite his long record of taking positions that put America's security at risk."

The only thing "insulting" here is your desire to smear a guy you don't know, trying to connect him somehow, someway to a massacre, because you don't like his politics. THAT's insulting, especially since you don't have an atom of evidence, just your prejudices.

And there is less than no evidence that today's events are connected in any way to the on going problems we're having with illegal (am I still allowed to use that word?) immigration. You're certain there's a connection, and you may be right. It would, however, be nice if you had any evidence whatsoever to support your arguments.

Way back in the dark ages, on 11/22/63, there was a lot of blather about Dallas being a "city of hate." After all UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson had been clonked on the head by a demonstrator, and General Walker was spewing his hate from Dallas, and there was that "wanted" poster, and there was just a climate of right wing hate in this town that was probably responsible for the killing of the president. What? The shooter was a communist? Never mind.

My advice would be to wait to see how this plays out, while praying for the recovery of the congressman and the other victims. The choice is up to you.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

I really don't see a connection between his former military service and his political career...other than the fact that he was wearing his marine uniform and firing m16's on his political material..he chose to exploit his service for political gains. I didn't chose to post this because of his military service...to suggest that is ignorant. I said...it probably has nothing to do with it...but it clearly has an impact on the thought process. To say that you can't see any connection between the two events is kind of insulting. The people blaming Palin et al are stupid, I agree. As I'm sure you are aware the political climate in Arizona is very charged and a lot of people are not happy....and this is clearly a result of that.


Apparently there was another "device" at Giffords office that has been removed and detonated. To say this wasn't politically motivated would be insane.

I'm assuming you were similarly outraged when John Kerry began his acceptance speech at the '04 Democrat convention by snapping off a salute and saying: "John Kerry reporting for duty."

 

[Dude Love]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Glad to see you're focused on the style guide. She's a congressman, not congresswoman or congressperson or anything else. Congressman.

I don't fall in line with the politically correct garbage of today. A woman cannot be a congressman. She cannot be a fireman. She cannot win the award for Best Actor. Congresswoman/firewoman/actress.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

I don't fall in line with the politically correct garbage of today. A woman cannot be a congressman. She cannot be a fireman. She cannot win the award for Best Actor. Congresswoman/firewoman/actress.

You "don't fall into line with the pc garbage of today," yet you want to argue with me about usage. Coincidentally, all of the useage you're suggesting is (wait for it) PC. Suit yourself. Me? I'll play by the rules, not contemporary caprices.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Since a member of Congress can be either a representative or a senator, it makes more sense to call them either of those than "congressman/woman/person".

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Arizona Congressman Gabrielle Giffords Apparantly Survives Assassination Attempt

Since a member of Congress can be either a representative or a senator, it makes more sense to call them either of those than "congressman/woman/person".

See. Another workable solution. However, nobody ever refers to a senator as "congressman," similarly, nobody ever refers to a congressman as "senator."