Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
Yes. RPI and PairWise formulas are identical to D-I men.
Yes. RPI and PairWise formulas are identical to D-I men.
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Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
- Thread starter spwood
- Start date
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Joe, I know SOS is not a criteria but it’s still part of what the PWR incorporates. So yes, just like in the old system, playing and beating good teams gives you a stronger numerical value. That’s the point I’m trying to make.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
A VERY rough sketch at what the selections would look like if the season ended today...still lots of hockey left to be played and most leagues have unequal number of games played with teams, which effects this as well. Took the teams currently in first place in each league and used tiebreakers (Salve over Nichols, Elmira over Wilkes)
SUNYAC - Geneseo
NESCAC - Wesleyan
NEHC - UMass Boston
CCC - Salve Regina
MASCAC - Plymouth State
UCHC - Elmira
NCHA - St. Norbert
MIAC - Augsburg
Pool C - Stevens Point
Pool C - Oswego
Pool C - Eau Claire
Pool C - Williams
Crazy to think the No. 6 ranked team in the PWR right now (Norwich) would be left out of the tournament right now if all conference leaders won.
TONS of hockey left to be played and this can and will change a lot. Right now though, I would think the only two pretty close to being a lock if not almost already clinching it are Geneseo and Stevens Point baring absolute collapses.
That makes for an 8-4 split and a very tough decision on which region has to play first round games. The East has 1, 3, 5, 7 and 8. The West has 2, 4, 9 and 10. In a perfect world, they would have 3 play-ins for the east and 1 play-in for the west so that the top 4 seeds all get the byes they deserve by the PWR...however, that's not how it has worked in the past and it would force a flight for the quarterfinal round.
Can anyone remember the last time a team flew for the quarterfinal round in the NCAA men's hockey tournament? I can't....I know it's happened but the only one I definitely know of is when Elmira flew out to Minnesota to play St. Johns in like 1993 or 1994.
A VERY rough sketch at what the selections would look like if the season ended today...still lots of hockey left to be played and most leagues have unequal number of games played with teams, which effects this as well. Took the teams currently in first place in each league and used tiebreakers (Salve over Nichols, Elmira over Wilkes)
SUNYAC - Geneseo
NESCAC - Wesleyan
NEHC - UMass Boston
CCC - Salve Regina
MASCAC - Plymouth State
UCHC - Elmira
NCHA - St. Norbert
MIAC - Augsburg
Pool C - Stevens Point
Pool C - Oswego
Pool C - Eau Claire
Pool C - Williams
Crazy to think the No. 6 ranked team in the PWR right now (Norwich) would be left out of the tournament right now if all conference leaders won.
TONS of hockey left to be played and this can and will change a lot. Right now though, I would think the only two pretty close to being a lock if not almost already clinching it are Geneseo and Stevens Point baring absolute collapses.
That makes for an 8-4 split and a very tough decision on which region has to play first round games. The East has 1, 3, 5, 7 and 8. The West has 2, 4, 9 and 10. In a perfect world, they would have 3 play-ins for the east and 1 play-in for the west so that the top 4 seeds all get the byes they deserve by the PWR...however, that's not how it has worked in the past and it would force a flight for the quarterfinal round.
Can anyone remember the last time a team flew for the quarterfinal round in the NCAA men's hockey tournament? I can't....I know it's happened but the only one I definitely know of is when Elmira flew out to Minnesota to play St. Johns in like 1993 or 1994.
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
So who gets the autobid ? The team that is in first place in the conference at the end of the regular season conference games or the team that wins the conference playoffs ???
So who gets the autobid ? The team that is in first place in the conference at the end of the regular season conference games or the team that wins the conference playoffs ???
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
The team that wins the playoffs. For the sake of Prez's argument right now, he was assuming the team leading the conference will win the conference tourney. We know that never happens though!
The team that wins the playoffs. For the sake of Prez's argument right now, he was assuming the team leading the conference will win the conference tourney. We know that never happens though!
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
And we remember this in OZ, boy do we remember.....
And we remember this in OZ, boy do we remember.....
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
Not any more crazy than D-3's traditional selection-"process".
The AQ's take up too much space, and that's always been been an issue, especially factoring-in (some of) the BS PS tourney AQ's getting a free pass after an unworthy body of work on the basis of a season.
The AQ's are a far bigger problem than is the PWR, clearly. At least we'll get an objectively-selected AL team this year after that silly dust settles. That's an improvement over what we've had for years and years now.
Not any more crazy than D-3's traditional selection-"process".
The AQ's take up too much space, and that's always been been an issue, especially factoring-in (some of) the BS PS tourney AQ's getting a free pass after an unworthy body of work on the basis of a season.
The AQ's are a far bigger problem than is the PWR, clearly. At least we'll get an objectively-selected AL team this year after that silly dust settles. That's an improvement over what we've had for years and years now.
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
There he is.... like clockwork. Like death and taxes...
There he is.... like clockwork. Like death and taxes...
KnightsOfTheRound
Hockey Knight in Boston
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
What if I told you there's no such thing as an "objectively selected at large team" because even the PWR criteria and their weighting are subjectively constructed!
I would argue the autobids are far closer to objective. The conference tournament brackets are constructed objectively based on the number of points you accumulate during your regular season's work. Then once the bracket is constructed you know exactly who you need to beat to make the NCAA tournament. It's all settled on the ice. That's a far more objective way of determining who makes it.
What if I told you there's no such thing as an "objectively selected at large team" because even the PWR criteria and their weighting are subjectively constructed!
I would argue the autobids are far closer to objective. The conference tournament brackets are constructed objectively based on the number of points you accumulate during your regular season's work. Then once the bracket is constructed you know exactly who you need to beat to make the NCAA tournament. It's all settled on the ice. That's a far more objective way of determining who makes it.
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
You may not agree with the PWR criteria (I'd truly be interested in what you'd like to eliminate, or add), but it is indeed objective and free of after-the-fact "weighting".
AQ's are not subjective but are arbitrary, in that the tourney winner is in regardless of whole-season merit, simply by dint of winning a brief tournament. This situation routinely displaces teams that have better bodies of work.
For instance (and to which Prezde alluded), as of now Salve (#20 PW, #20 KRACH), Elmira (29/31) and Plymouth (43/46) would displace Norwich, St. Norbert and Augsburg.
You may not agree with the PWR criteria (I'd truly be interested in what you'd like to eliminate, or add), but it is indeed objective and free of after-the-fact "weighting".
AQ's are not subjective but are arbitrary, in that the tourney winner is in regardless of whole-season merit, simply by dint of winning a brief tournament. This situation routinely displaces teams that have better bodies of work.
For instance (and to which Prezde alluded), as of now Salve (#20 PW, #20 KRACH), Elmira (29/31) and Plymouth (43/46) would displace Norwich, St. Norbert and Augsburg.
GB Puck Fan
It's A Great Day For Hockey
The NCAA, by virtue of what its members want, runs tournaments of conference championship teams, with other teams added in to fill out the field. There is no claim that it is the best X number of teams in the field. Never has been. Presumably, the schools like this because it is in place and gives all of them – except for a few independents - an equal shot at getting to the National tournament.
Schools such as Saint Norbert like this. In most sports, the Midwest conference may not be strong enough to get an at-large bid to the field. But as a conference member it knows it has that opportunity
The problem for hockey and also for football is that there are too few, seemingly, at large beds available. Moreso in football, where the 6.5:1 ratio isn’t followed. The upshot? Win your conference tournament or worry.
And given SNC’s season, I think it has to win the Harris Cup or it will stay home. It happens. Does seem odd after the league got three bids last year, but so be it.
Maybe we need a NASCAR-style champions spot!
2 first round games out west and 2 in the East.
If all the top 4 seeds win their QF games, the finals will be at??
Oswego? As the best facility and only 1 flight needed??
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
My understanding is the hosting preference for the FF is in the West this year.
My understanding is the hosting preference for the FF is in the West this year.
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bakdraft21
Well-known member
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
I'd have to make the 4 hr drive if that is so.
Tom Coughlin
5x NCAA Champ/2x Super Bowl Champ
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
The top seeding from the West to qualify will be given preference as long as it has submitted a hosting bid, is my understanding.
The top seeding from the West to qualify will be given preference as long as it has submitted a hosting bid, is my understanding.
Tom Coughlin
5x NCAA Champ/2x Super Bowl Champ
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
Do you know how quick the turnaround is between the end of the QF games and the announcement of the FF host site?
Do you know how quick the turnaround is between the end of the QF games and the announcement of the FF host site?
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
In the olden days, that was done before noon Sunday. I imagine that would be the same now, but I don't know for 100 percent certainty. I am 99.6 percent sure though.
In the olden days, that was done before noon Sunday. I imagine that would be the same now, but I don't know for 100 percent certainty. I am 99.6 percent sure though.
Tom Coughlin
5x NCAA Champ/2x Super Bowl Champ
Re: Anyone going to attempt to publish a PairWise ranking for D III?
Thanks for being the best SID around.
Thanks for being the best SID around.
PrezdeJohnson09
Proud supporter of Osmirwich hockey
I will say having just done this last year for the women’s side. We were told Sunday morning we were “officially” hosting. However, the NCAA did reveal the “seeds” on a conference call for the quarterfinal saying that if X Y Z team won, and X, Y team lost, so and so would host. So to the schools, they basically knew after the conclusion of the quarterfinal round who was hosting.
When Norwich was selected to host, we announced that Sunday afternoon and then put out a full press release Monday morning following the participants conference call with the NCAA.