What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Another Mass Shooting: It's Those Darn Video Games!

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'll judge. If you're not going to put your life on the line for little kids what are you a cop for? You have a vest. You're the good guy with the gun. You've been trained. That poor security guard in Buffalo gave his life to protect people. He probably would have saved more lives if the guy didn't have body armor.
 
One thing I want to make sure is that these... utterly indefensible and cowardly failings by the police do not distract us from the fact that this was a preventable incident. Let's not lose site of the fact that our outrageous gun obsession, combined with our pisspoor handling of any mental health problems, led to this shooting. The news coming about about how worthless these officers are shouldn't let us fall into the Fox News trap of "this isn't a gun control problem; it's that these specific cops something something".


Fuck this police department. Fuck them for eternity. But we cannot let people deflect the ire and the drive to improve.
 
Swansong said:
One thing I want to make sure is that these... utterly indefensible and cowardly failings by the police do not distract us from the fact that this was a preventable incident. Let's not lose site of the fact that our outrageous gun obsession, combined with our ****poor handling of any mental health problems, led to this shooting. The news coming about about how worthless these officers are shouldn't let us fall into the Fox News trap of "this isn't a gun control problem; it's that these specific cops something something".


Fuck this police department. Fuck them for eternity. But we cannot let people deflect the ire and the drive to improve.
Click to expand...

Well, yes, but with the current Court I don't see much happening on the prevention side. And given the Senate is now caving to closing the boyfriend loophole it is clear that ALL REPUBLICANS elected to Congress want everyone at 18 to be able to buy an AR-15.
 
Kepler said:
It seems like a virtually impossible situation so there is no way I am going to judge based on scant media reports.

With these officers, have a formal, transparent review and get the facts.

In the general case, have aggressive gun control so this stops happening. We are letting the dumbest and most violent people in our society set the rules. The social contract is there exactly for the opposite reason: to protect intelligent and sane people from aggressive morons.

Stop letting scum hide behind fictitious "rights." Rights are a social construct to protect good people from bad ones. Our institutions should be used to contain and limit the damage of the Right, not to coddle them.
Click to expand...

I agree with the overarching point in this post, that in gereral we should not let the worst of us make policy and we simply need to control firearms much better.

But I think there is plenty of evidence to judge the horrible response by law enforcement. It is far from just scant media reports. Contemporaneous accounts from parents of students there, both victims and those who got out safely, plenty of video footage, and even plenty of statements by law enforcement detailing why they stood around with their thumbs up their as ses. Add to that their behavior in the days and weeks following (harrassment of media, harrassment of victims, some refusal to cooperate) and that there have even been other law enforcement agencies and personnel who have questioned the behavior of law enforcement on the scene in Uvalde and there is more than enough to judge and even conclude that their response was horrible, cowardly, ineffective and almost certainly cost little childrend and their teachers lives.
 
My interpretation to the cops' inaction has been that they were afraid for the kids -- that breaking in would create a Koresh mass killing. Like not charging the bank when the gunman has hostages.

If the review shows the cops were protecting themselves, then of course hang them by their thumbs.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
Well, yes, but with the current Court I don't see much happening on the prevention side. And given the Senate is now caving to closing the boyfriend loophole it is clear that ALL REPUBLICANS elected to Congress want everyone at 18 to be able to buy an AR-15.
Click to expand...

For sure. I've zero faith that even this miniscule proposal will get passed. All the same...
 
Head of public safety in Texas is certainly throwing these officers under the bus
 
St. Clown said:
I would never pretend to speak for all of them, but somebody froze due to fear. The officers know each other, including that one “they”, and likely didn’t know the teachers or those children impacted directly. The officers aren’t SWAT equipped, based upon that pic from earlier in the thread, so likely not or only lightly trained on these situations. Fear won.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect. They were SWAT trained and equipped and had been in the schools in that district as early as February planning for this type of event. They tweeted about it at the time of the "test" and there is plenty of pictures out there in their SWAT gear that ate up a lot of the local budget. (posted by them about how Uvalde has a SWAT team you can go back in the thread pretty sure I posted the tweets)

They didn't want to get shot, they feared one bad guy with a gun despite them being many good guys with guns trained to stop bad guys with guns but were cowards. I get it, I don't want to be shot either. I am not a cop because of that. Not one of these cops deserves the right to deny people rights any longer. Every death is on their head.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
Every Cop that comes on any show and talks about this mentions that 1 Cop, 2 Cops, 3 Cops, etc. on the scene you go in for school shootings. That's how they're trained. Columbine and what happened there apparently changed their thought process.

The blood of any kids that died after they could have engaged the suspect is on them. Period. I couldn't live with myself.
Click to expand...

Actually, the more facts that come out about Columbine the more you realize the cops did the same thing there. One of the teachers died bleeding out because despite the kids holding signs and other teachers telling cops he was in trouble the cops chose to search another side of the building and not send EMTs. It took like 45 minutes after they entered the school to get to the room (the shooters were dead by then) and the kids couldnt hold off the bleeding long enough.

The cops flubbed Columbine and then covered it up in such a haphazard manner that their lawyers should work for Trump. At one point while being sued they sent out all the police reports and were so lazy that when they "forgot" to send some pages didnt realize all the pages were numbered. So the defense saw "Page 45, 46, 47, 55, 56...etc." and realized they had been lied too. They are still suing for all the info to this day. (there was a book just written about it which was discussed after Uvalde)

At least in Columbine's case it was new...Uvalde was trained for this.
 
Swansong said:
One thing I want to make sure is that these... utterly indefensible and cowardly failings by the police do not distract us from the fact that this was a preventable incident. Let's not lose site of the fact that our outrageous gun obsession, combined with our ****poor handling of any mental health problems, led to this shooting. The news coming about about how worthless these officers are shouldn't let us fall into the Fox News trap of "this isn't a gun control problem; it's that these specific cops something something".


Fuck this police department. Fuck them for eternity. But we cannot let people deflect the ire and the drive to improve.
Click to expand...

**slow clap**
 
Kepler said:
My interpretation to the cops' inaction has been that they were afraid for the kids -- that breaking in would create a Koresh mass killing. Like not charging the bank when the gunman has hostages.

If the review shows the cops were protecting themselves, then of course hang them by their thumbs.
Click to expand...

That doesn't mesh with the facts we know. He was already killing the kids. If that was their calculation that was wrong.

I think that was their original story, but that has been shifted and changed because facts dont back up their story. The truth is, just like Vegas, if they had just acted quicker in a situation they easily could have more kids would be alive.
 
Handyman said:
Actually, the more facts that come out about Columbine the more you realize the cops did the same thing there. One of the teachers died bleeding out because despite the kids holding signs and other teachers telling cops he was in trouble the cops chose to search another side of the building and not send EMTs. It took like 45 minutes after they entered the school to get to the room (the shooters were dead by then) and the kids couldnt hold off the bleeding long enough.

The cops flubbed Columbine and then covered it up in such a haphazard manner that their lawyers should work for Trump. At one point while being sued they sent out all the police reports and were so lazy that when they "forgot" to send some pages didnt realize all the pages were numbered. So the defense saw "Page 45, 46, 47, 55, 56...etc." and realized they had been lied too. They are still suing for all the info to this day. (there was a book just written about it which was discussed after Uvalde)

At least in Columbine's case it was new...Uvalde was trained for this.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what I was saying when I mentioned Columbine is that's the case that changed the policy nation wide. Real Cops enter the scene immediately and do not wimp out.
 
So the officer whose wife died- he said once she called and said she was shot, he was detained and his gun was taken away.

nice
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top