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America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

dropthatpuck said:
He is one, scary dude.

http://www.breitbart.tv/uncovered-v...h-care-plan-will-eliminate-private-insurance/
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Yep, I heard those clips on the radio this morning. Additionally, we're starting to hear more references to health "insurance" reform rather than health "care" reform, because that is looked at by the Obama administration as less threatening terminology to the masses, who for the most part tend to like their doctors.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I loved the town hall meeting clip of that woman who went off saying the feds can't run medicare, medicaid, social security, et al, and sure as hell can't run something the size of our healthcare system.

No doubt about it at this point - his record (past and present) speaks for itself - he's a socialist. Agree with him or not, there's no glossing over that label.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

dropthatpuck said:
No doubt about it at this point - his record (past and present) speaks for itself - he's a socialist. Agree with him or not, there's no glossing over that label.
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As long as you're redefining the word socialist, sure.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Priceless said:
As long as you're redefining the word socialist, sure.
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Not sure he's redefining. It seems that this administration wants to control everything. That sounds like socialism to me.

OTOH would you settle for Moonbat?
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

joecct said:
Not sure he's redefining. It seems that this administration wants to control everything. That sounds like socialism to me.

OTOH would you settle for Moonbat?
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Socialism refers to any one of various theories of economic organization advocating state, public or common worker ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with a more egalitarian method of compensation.
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Obama doesn't even come close.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

ScoobyDoo said:
Obama doesn't even come close.
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Wait till he's been in there 8 years, if the first few months are any indication, what happens when he gets comfortable?
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

walrus said:
Wait till he's been in there 8 years, if the first few months are any indication, what happens when he gets comfortable?
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He's going to turn us into Sweden right before turning us over to his Muslin overlords. We won't even get to enjoy the Swedish Bikini Team because they'll be wearing burqas. :mad:
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Bill said:
Yep, I heard those clips on the radio this morning. Additionally, we're starting to hear more references to health "insurance" reform rather than health "care" reform, because that is looked at by the Obama administration as less threatening terminology to the masses, who for the most part tend to like their doctors.
Click to expand...

It's a semantics strategy -- c.f. the other side talking about "bureaucrats getting between you and your doctor," which ignores that under the current system corporate risk-reward computations come between you and your doctor.
 
walrus said:
Wait till he's been in there 8 years, if the first few months are any indication, what happens when he gets comfortable?
Click to expand...

If he's here for 8 years then it's obvious the voters want socialism since it's so obvious that's what he's all about. Well, only obvious to the wicked smaht.

:rolleyes:
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Bill said:
Article from Charles Krauthammer on where he thinks Obama's health care reform is going:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../07/30/AR2009073002819.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
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I'm no fan of Krauthammer, but I have to admire a professional writer pulling a sleight of hand for the benefit of his audience. Two weeks ago, I thought the Republicans were about to "break" Obama and delay meant certain victory. Now its 'he'll get his bill passed but not exactly how he wants'.:confused: Seems to be a set up by a conservative pundit who sees the Dems pulling this off, and is trying to frame it as best he can. However, if I'm a fire breathing anti-Obama righty, I wouldn't be too happy seeing somebody conceding defeat before a bill is even passed by either chamber.

A few interesting points in the article:

1) Agree that CBO estimates are the reason why the bill has been delayed, but frankly I don't think that having it come in at under 1T is a bad thing here. Simply put the bill should strive to cover as many people as it feasibly can. I'm not sure what the problem is with that goal, especially when coupled with the twin goal of reducing the growth of health care costs.

2) Was very amused by the comment that 18-34 year olds often have good reasons for not taking insurance? And those reasons are....??? Aside from if they truly can't afford it, which reform seeks to address, what other reasons are there? I don't like having to pay car insurance, but being a safe driver doesn't mean something still can't happen. Similarly, being young doesn't gaurantee no health incidents. Have to wonder about the credibility of an argument that states people who could be insured should just gamble that they won't get ill and still the bill on the rest of us. Sorry, but I'd rather not reward irresponsibility.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Rover said:
Simply put the bill should strive to cover as many people as it feasibly can. I'm not sure what the problem is with that goal, especially when coupled with the twin goal of reducing the growth of health care costs.
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The problem is there aren't enough doctors and nurses.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Rover said:
I'm no fan of Krauthammer, but I have to admire a professional writer pulling a sleight of hand for the benefit of his audience. Two weeks ago, I thought the Republicans were about to "break" Obama and delay meant certain victory. Now its 'he'll get his bill passed but not exactly how he wants'.:confused: Seems to be a set up by a conservative pundit who sees the Dems pulling this off, and is trying to frame it as best he can. However, if I'm a fire breathing anti-Obama righty, I wouldn't be too happy seeing somebody conceding defeat before a bill is even passed by either chamber.

A few interesting points in the article:

1) Agree that CBO estimates are the reason why the bill has been delayed, but frankly I don't think that having it come in at under 1T is a bad thing here. Simply put the bill should strive to cover as many people as it feasibly can. I'm not sure what the problem is with that goal, especially when coupled with the twin goal of reducing the growth of health care costs.

2) Was very amused by the comment that 18-34 year olds often have good reasons for not taking insurance? And those reasons are....??? Aside from if they truly can't afford it, which reform seeks to address, what other reasons are there? I don't like having to pay car insurance, but being a safe driver doesn't mean something still can't happen. Similarly, being young doesn't gaurantee no health incidents. Have to wonder about the credibility of an argument that states people who could be insured should just gamble that they won't get ill and still the bill on the rest of us. Sorry, but I'd rather not reward irresponsibility.
Click to expand...
The Dems have a pretty much bullet proof majority in both houses. Something will pass - does it need to? That is the debate...

2) If I pay $1,000 a year in health insurance, shouldn't I use $1,000 in services? Statistically, the young use less than that each year, which means that the surplus is going to pay for the services of the ill - generally the elderly, but not always...

Does Bill Gates need health insurance? Doubt it. He can afford to buy out most hospitals, so why does he have it? Should he, and the uber rich be forced to have health insurance when they can pay cash?

Now our good friend Pat Buchanan has weighed in on elder care.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Rover said:
2) Was very amused by the comment that 18-34 year olds often have good reasons for not taking insurance? And those reasons are....??? Aside from if they truly can't afford it, which reform seeks to address, what other reasons are there? I don't like having to pay car insurance, but being a safe driver doesn't mean something still can't happen. Similarly, being young doesn't gaurantee no health incidents. Have to wonder about the credibility of an argument that states people who could be insured should just gamble that they won't get ill and still the bill on the rest of us. Sorry, but I'd rather not reward irresponsibility.
Click to expand...

So by your reasoning, we should all be buying lottery tickets, then? I mean, you're not guaranteed to win, but why take the chance of not playing?

I believe that everyone should be free to do his own risk/reward calculus - the risk being that you go bankrupt or die due to late/inadequate care. In my mind, that's a pretty easy choice, but that doesn't mean its the right choice for everyone.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

LynahFan said:
I believe that everyone should be free to do his own risk/reward calculus - the risk being that you go bankrupt or die due to late/inadequate care. In my mind, that's a pretty easy choice, but that doesn't mean its the right choice for everyone.
Click to expand...

The "problem" with that line of thinking is that when people do get sick we don't "do the right thing" and let them die.

Basic moral responsibilities trump economic theory. That's who we are -- if not as a species, at least as a culture.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

joecct said:
2) If I pay $1,000 a year in health insurance, shouldn't I use $1,000 in services?
Click to expand...

No. Apparently you don't understand the concept of insurance.
 
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