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America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Seriously. Why did the D need to horse trade? They had 60 votes.

Bring the bill and vote

Because it'd be political suicide, especially for Dems in moderate states, to not at least make a show of trying to be bipartisan. And as Bill eluded to some of those Dems will need some conservative crossover votes to get re-elected.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

This is why we can't allow government to infringe on fire insurance. If insurance companies can't drop you when your house is on fire, then nobody will go into insurance!

In socialist United States, fire insures you.

/got nothin'
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Seriously. Why did the D need to horse trade? They had 60 votes.

Bring the bill and vote

If they believe in what they were doing, they'd do that, wouldn't they? Change you can believe in, one of the biggest lies ever
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Seriously. Why did the D need to horse trade? They had 60 votes.

Bring the bill and vote

If the current debates and horse trading are any indication, I think the Dems would have had a difficult time getting even a simple majority on any proposal. I'm not sure how Baucus' proposal will look, but I think he's probably talking more to Snowe than any other GOPer. The fact the GOP leadership never seriously attempted to advance these "bills" says alot about their motives.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

If the current debates and horse trading are any indication, I think the Dems would have had a difficult time getting even a simple majority on any proposal. I'm not sure how Baucus' proposal will look, but I think he's probably talking more to Snowe than any other GOPer. The fact the GOP leadership never seriously attempted to advance these "bills" says alot about their motives.

The fact is the majority of folks in the country don't think this is a problem. Which I find positively hilarious given the rate that my insurance bill has increased over the last 10 years or so.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

The fact is the majority of folks in the country don't think this is a problem. Which I find positively hilarious given the rate that my insurance bill has increased over the last 10 years or so.

Get real, I guess you have the only insurance thats increased in the last 10 years. Costs are the issue, everyone knows it. You think Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid have the answers? Only a dope thinks they have a solution
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Get real, I guess you have the only insurance thats increased in the last 10 years. Costs are the issue, everyone knows it. You think Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid have the answers? Only a dope thinks they have a solution
Wow. Classic case of shoot the messenger. No where did I say that Nancy and Harry had any answers.

I just pointed out that there is a problem and most of the mindless automatons solution to said problem is status quo.

Pretty much the American way. Our current Governor in the fine State of Minnesota governs that way.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Get real, I guess you have the only insurance thats increased in the last 10 years. Costs are the issue, everyone knows it. You think Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid have the answers? Only a dope thinks they have a solution

You don't actually read what anyone posts do you? You just sit there and look for a couple of words you can latch onto and then insert some attack on it...and unlike the Cons and the Libs you actually have no position on anything so you do it to everyone. Congrats, you might actually be lower than the lowest common denominator!
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

WOW! You and I agree 100% on something. The old time conservatives would be spinning in their graves if they knew what the GOP has turned into.
But, if you believe that you don't want any more government involvement in health care, then shouldn't you try to stop this?

leswp has had some very good points from the health provider point of view. How do we get more doctors??? How do we control the cost of malpractice insurance coupled with tort reform??? If there are uninsured, is it necessary that they be insured? If so, by whom and for how much?

Let government facilitate the answers, but don't be the solution.

10 more posts to go.......
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Several of those Ds would like to get re-elected and they have been hearing from a lot of their constituents that don't want government run health care/insurance.

but don't the voters know that the D knows what is best for you?!?! just ask Rover :p

Because it'd be political suicide, especially for Dems in moderate states, to not at least make a show of trying to be bipartisan. And as Bill eluded to some of those Dems will need some conservative crossover votes to get re-elected.

but (see above)

If they believe in what they were doing, they'd do that, wouldn't they? Change you can believe in, one of the biggest lies ever

but (see above)... Do It For Teddy!:D

If the current debates and horse trading are any indication, I think the Dems would have had a difficult time getting even a simple majority on any proposal. I'm not sure how Baucus' proposal will look, but I think he's probably talking more to Snowe than any other GOPer. The fact the GOP leadership never seriously attempted to advance these "bills" says alot about their motives.

with 60 votes they don't need Snowe (though she does give them 61;) )
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

But, if you believe that you don't want any more government involvement in health care, then shouldn't you try to stop this?

leswp has had some very good points from the health provider point of view. How do we get more doctors??? How do we control the cost of malpractice insurance coupled with tort reform??? If there are uninsured, is it necessary that they be insured? If so, by whom and for how much?

Let government facilitate the answers, but don't be the solution.

10 more posts to go.......

Of course you should, I never said otherwise. But the GOP isn't trying to stop anything, they're just being obstructionist as a political move so they can play the childish "I told you so" game after the fact.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

By CALVIN WOODWARD and ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Writers Calvin Woodward And Erica Werner, Associated Press Writers – 32 mins ago

WASHINGTON – The change was subtle, but significant. In his speech to Congress on Wednesday night, President Barack Obama gave a more accurate — and less reassuring — account of the impact of his proposed health care overall than he has done in the past. It went by in a blink.

He told Americans, in excerpts released by the White House, that nothing he is proposing will force businesses or consumers to change their existing insurance coverage. That much is true.

It's also true that nothing in his plan guarantees that policies people have now will continue to be available in the same form. In earlier accounts, he spoke with unmerited certainty in saying people who are happy with their current insurance can simply keep it.

Other parts of his speech repeated some of the oversimplified claims that have marked his salesmanship. A look at some of his assertions Wednesday night:

OBAMA: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have. Let me repeat this: Nothing in our plan requires you to change what you have."

THE FACTS: That's correct, as far as it goes. But neither can the plan guarantee that people can keep their current coverage. Employers sponsor coverage for most families, and they'd be free to change their health plans in ways that workers may not like, or drop insurance altogether. The Congressional Budget Office analyzed the health care bill written by House Democrats and said that by 2016 some 3 million people who now have employer-based care would lose it because their employers would decide to stop offering it.

In the past Obama made repeated statements such as, "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period." Now he's stopping short of that unconditional guarantee by saying nothing in the plan "requires" any change.

He's dropped the "period."

___

OBAMA: Requiring insurance companies to cover preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies "makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives."

The facts: Studies have shown that much preventive care — particularly tests like the ones Obama mentions — actually costs money instead of saving it. That's because detecting acute diseases like breast cancer in their early stages involves testing many people who would never end up developing the disease. The costs of a large number of tests, even if they're relatively cheap, will outweigh the costs of caring for the minority of people who would have ended up getting sick without the testing.

The Congressional Budget Office wrote in August: "The evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall."

That doesn't mean preventive care doesn't make sense or save lives. It just doesn't save money.

___

OBAMA: "Now, if you're one of the tens of millions of Americans who don't currently have health insurance, the second part of this plan will finally offer you quality, affordable choices. If you lose your job or change your job, you will be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you will be able to get coverage."

THE FACTS: Left unsaid is that the Democratic proposals in Congress could, in fact, require all individuals and families to buy insurance, including many who want it but can't now afford it and many who choose not to get it. Waivers or discounts would be available to lower-income Americans.

That requirement, called the individual mandate, is designed to increase the size of the insurance pool and, by including younger and healthier Americans, reduce overall costs.

To be sure, Obama has not yet endorsed the push by some fellow Democrats for a mandate. Obama opposed the individual mandate as a presidential candidate, but announced in the spring that he'd support it as long as there are hardship waivers.

If a mandate becomes law, the claim that "you will be able" to get coverage will be misleading. People will have to get it.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

You know I may not agree with this plan but it is fun to watch the GOP get more and more angry as the speech goes on! They look like they are getting huge wedgies :D

I don't like this plan but I like that Obama isnt asking for compromise he is finally just acting. (or saying he is) Time to put up or shut up and let the whiners whine.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

You know I may not agree with this plan but it is fun to watch the GOP get more and more angry as the speech goes on! They look like they are getting huge wedgies :D

I don't like this plan but I like that Obama isnt asking for compromise he is finally just acting. (or saying he is) Time to put up or shut up and let the whiners whine.
I'm enjoying this I have to say. He got out the baseball bat and he's got a big swing.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I'm enjoying this I have to say. He got out the baseball bat and he's got a big swing.

Maybe Jindal can give the rebuttal and blame this all on Katrina ;) :p

This was the type of speech he needed to give...give up the ball-less Democratic ways and just go for it. If he fails he fails but better to go down swinging than to never take the bat off your shoulder...
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I would have felt better it the Rep guy said something of substance. Did he give any constructive stuff? All I heard was the other guys are wrong in general altho he agreed on a few points. The reasons used for being wrong all were pretty effectively addressed in O's speech from my seat. It would seem like it would be the time to put out what you would like or what you pobject to in some detail. Instead it came across like an audiovisual aide for the points being made at the end of O's speech about mindless oposition without proposing specific solutions. I missed a few minutes running from the car to the house and unpacking. Didn't think I missed that much but maybe I did?
 
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