What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

1. Getting dropped when we get sick.
2. Not being able to be insured at all if we're sick.
3. The uninsured.
4. The fact that the costs are rising twice inflation.

If you can fix those privately or publicly good luck.
Especially since even considering to address the status quo of our precious and "perfect" health care system will get you labeled as an America-hating socialist.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Especially since even considering to address the status quo of our precious and "perfect" health care system will get you labeled as an America-hating socialist.

True, and the other thing I did not list is because we put health care costs at the "business" level now we have health care costs put into every single product we make, which makes it harder to compete (globally) with countries that do it the other way.

However, the converse of that is that their citizens have higher taxes and thus less buying power, so in the long run it should be a wash.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I've often wondered what would happen if we simply outlawed health insurance. You can't buy it anymore, and you can't use it to pay for any healthcare. All government programs providing any payments or subsidies for healthcare are eliminated.

After we thinned the herd of quite a few medical providers, I'm really curious what the cost of say a check up, or MRI would be.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

You gotta love the right wing though.......

Got this from Newsmax.com today.

We Raised $1.2 Million to Stop Obamacare in Just Weeks . . .

We Can Do More If You Care . . .
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

You gotta love the right wing though.......

Got this from Newsmax.com today.

Gotta love both sides really. The left calls the right fascists for not wanting a public option and the right calling the left communists for wanting a public option. I wish some people would just grow up. Maybe both sides need to be forced to read this thread to see what a healthy debate/discussion actually looks like.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Gotta love both sides really. The left calls the right fascists for not wanting a public option and the right calling the left communists for wanting a public option. I wish some people would just grow up. Maybe both sides need to be forced to read this thread to see what a healthy debate/discussion actually looks like.

It wont change anything, the average American is a moron that doesn't take the time to ask questions and educate themselves. Bill Maher got in trouble for calling Americans stupid but the polls he cited prove it...over 50% of Americans polled can't name a branch of government? 18% think the Sun revolves around the Earth? What the hell when I was 6 I knew more than that!

The parties play to the stupidity of the average voter...they know that most people won't call them out on their BS so they say what they want even if it makes no sense! Then they throw in some snappy soundbytes and a few key phrases like "Socialism" or "Facism" and the average idiot is hooked.

Then you add in the media and their need to cater to the lowest common denominator and it gets multiplied by 100%. They don't talk about the issues because they know the average moron will click to a rerun of Friends if they don't have their short attention spans massaged! HOORAY!

Another thing Maher said in criticism of the Obama is that he needs to act like Bush did when he was in office. If he feels something is important and needs to be done just friggin do it. He has the votes just like W did so ignore all the BS and the whining from both sides and just go out and do it! Don't cave in like a Democrat always seems to do (he spent most of his show blasting the Dems for them being spineless while the Majority Whip was a panelist which was fun :p ) but be decisive and go for it because the more you let the argument shift and continue to buckle under the pressure and play into all the BS the more likely it is to fail. (which doesnt bother me but then again I dont support the Bill at all ;) )
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I've often wondered what would happen if we simply outlawed health insurance. You can't buy it anymore, and you can't use it to pay for any healthcare. All government programs providing any payments or subsidies for healthcare are eliminated.

After we thinned the herd of quite a few medical providers, I'm really curious what the cost of say a check up, or MRI would be.
The cost would go down tremendously. The typical person would literally save hundreds of thousands of dollars over the course of their lifetime.

Of course, the non-typical person who gets cancer and can't afford the treatment (which is obviously still going to be expensive) will simply die. This is why, years ago, large groups of people decided to share the risk amongst themselves. Most would never make their money back, but if you were one of the unlucky ones who got cancer, you would be afforded the necessary treatment to not only survive, but to keep most of your accumulated wealth too. The other benefit was the ability as a large group (a union if you will) to negotiate down rates with the providers of the healthcare. The bigger the group, the lower the rate. Well, the smaller groups didn't fare very well under this plan, so the idea was to get together and organize themselves into a larger union (health care co-op if you will). Also, enterprising businessmen realized there was potential to create their own co-ops and take a cut off the top. This worked okay for a while, then the businessmen bought up the co-ops (see BCBS). Well now, since most people are insured by the businessmen, it was in their best interest to try and increase the size of their unions in order to spread more risk and bargain lower rates. So, one way for an insurance company to reduce their premiums in order to compete with other insurers for members is to deny coverage whenever legally possible (or illegally if the court fees will cost less than the treatment). Welcome to now.

So, this is the problem with insurance. There're problems with the cost of healthcare too, part of it having nothing to do with insurance, and part of it having to do with the cost of treating the uninsured. However, when it comes to insurance, there are a two simple truths: 1) Anything other than a cash system will mean most people will never receive more in benefits than they pay in; 2) The largest group assembled will receive the best value on their health care and pay the lowest premiums.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Bill Maher is stupid, evidenced regularly by his blathering....and only "stupid people" quote Bill Maher. If that's where your news and regurgitated vitriol comes from, try BBC, Reuters or NPR on for size. At least it'll lend a little cred to your posts.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Bill Maher is stupid, evidenced regularly by his blathering....and only "stupid people" quote Bill Maher. If that's where your news and regurgitated vitriol comes from, try BBC, Reuters or NPR on for size. At least it'll lend a little cred to your posts.

You may disagree with Bill Maher but you're wrong about two things.

1. He is not stupid.
2. He's right about Americans being stupid.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Bill Maher is stupid, evidenced regularly by his blathering....and only "stupid people" quote Bill Maher. If that's where your news and regurgitated vitriol comes from, try BBC, Reuters or NPR on for size. At least it'll lend a little cred to your posts.

No I watch it for entertainment Fox News/Limbaugh boy...see I can tell the difference between an entertainer and a news organization unlike you and your brethren :D Though I am sure you never partake in the vitriol and BS that Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and your boy Fat Rush have to say AT ALL :rolleyes:

I mean that is the only reason you are defending Americans against what Maher said because Bill O'Reilly did! In three years when Obama gets re-elected and Crackpot Billy is calling everyone a moron you will be saying it to.

That is why I don't take you seriously you can't honestly be that stupid :)
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Maher is strident and he'll never convince anybody but another True Believer, but he's smart. He has nearly as unpleasant a TV Persona as his Crypto-Sexual Co-enabler and fellow anger gravy train rider Coulter. It's fine to believe God is a glorified Santa Claus fetish, but if you're yelling that at religious people and you're over 19, you're missing a vital self-scrutiny gene.
 
Last edited:
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Another observation that no one seems to be talking about- the current crop of MDs coming out have the mentality of entitled spoiled brats. (no strong feelings here:o ) I am sure not all of them, but my exposure is they want no on call, holidays off, shorter hours, larger paychecks than their work ethic can support and little intrusion into their personal life. They have an inflated idea of what they are entitled to when they look for a job- that is what previous generations worked up the ladder to achieve when they were in their 40s. This generation wants everything as they come out of the gate. This is not the life of a PCP. They aren't stupid to figure this out when they pick a specialty. Specialties tend to work in larger groups so have less call and more flexibility in things that conform to what they think they are owed.

Anytime I have been somewhere (all primary care) looking for a new doc it is avg 2-3 yrs to find one and their work ethic isn't that impressive when we get em. They are a commodity as there are so few of them and they know it. Unfortunately many practices cannot meet the demands and the remaining MDs get pretty burnt out.

They have softened up so much on what is required in residency that the Docs coming out are truly shocked at what is required of them. We have had a few that simply decide that they don't want to be a Doc anymore. :eek: Where the system previously winnowed out these folks when the hours were ridiculous, now they get all the way thru and are truly baffled they need to work long hours.

Most of the new docs are now are coming out of med school with six figure med school loan debt loads to add to the personal grind of medical development. Most of the older docs did not start their careers so deep in the hole financially. These are also mostly people who have been high achievers all of their lives, and have been told over and over again how special they are, making egos huge. Add the ego to the debt load, and you have a recipe for the narcisistic personality laced with more than a little agita...:cool:
 
Last edited:
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

You may disagree with Bill Maher but you're wrong about two things.

1. He is not stupid.
2. He's right about Americans being stupid.

Uh... you've heard him talk about religion, right? His main argument is always the wars that have been done in the name of religion... as if people wouldn't find something else to fight over.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Uh... you've heard him talk about religion, right? His main argument is always the wars that have been done in the name of religion... as if people wouldn't find something else to fight over.

And that means he's stupid? Of course we find something else to fight over, the question is if we stopped fighting over that would the number of wars go down? Would they go up? Or stay the same?

That's up for debate. I think he argues it would go down and it seems logical to me.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Uh... you've heard him talk about religion, right? His main argument is always the wars that have been done in the name of religion... as if people wouldn't find something else to fight over.

The isnt even close to his main argument against religion it is just one of the reasons he finds them barbaric...and guess what he is absolutely right. Sorry but killing in the name of God is no better than killing in general no matter how much the faithful try and spin it.

As someone who has disavowed religion and faith I have many of the same feelings he does. There is absolutely no difference between ancient mythology and modern religion except that we mock ancient beliefs as being idiotic or crazy bedtime tales whereas modern religion believes all the same stuff with just different names. He likes to mock that hypocrisy and well so do I :)

That said he is way too liberal for me on many topics but like I said it is entertainment. I watch it to laugh and hear some biased opinions face off against other biased opinions and see them all foam at the mouth. It is a perfect microcosm of the modern body politic :D
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Uh... you've heard him talk about religion, right? His main argument is always the wars that have been done in the name of religion... as if people wouldn't find something else to fight over.
Heinlein postulated that wars were fought because of population pressures (Starship Troopers)

But how did war get into a discussion on health care?
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Heinlein postulated that wars were fought because of population pressures (Starship Troopers)

But how did war get into a discussion on health care?

Well when there is war, people die, when people die the population drops meaning less people need health care...DUH! :D
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Well when there is war, people die, when people die the population drops meaning less people need health care...DUH! :D
DUH!!! And what about the other 3 Horsemen? They're feeling the short shrift.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

DUH!!! And what about the other 3 Horsemen? They're feeling the short shrift.

Well I am guessing that Arn Anderson will DDT someone or hit them with a chair and Rick fllair will hit someone in the nuts, poke them in the eye then fall flat on his face before cheating and using a figurefour leglock to win the tag team titles!

Oh did you not mean those horsemen?
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Especially since even considering to address the status quo of our precious and "perfect" health care system will get you labeled as an America-hating socialist.
AH, that is why I am the commie pinko. I feel better:D

You gotta love the right wing though.......

Got this from Newsmax.com today.We Raised $1.2 Million to Stop Obamacare in Just Weeks . . .

We Can Do More If You Care . . .

__________________
Now, if they would just spend that to take care of some of the old folk who can't afford meds or on prenatal care for the indigent or something I would feel so much better.....

Most of the new docs are now are coming out of med school with six figure med school loan debt loads to add to the personal grind of medical development. Most of the older docs did not start their careers so deep in the hole financially. These are also mostly people who have been high achievers all of their lives, and have been told over and over again how special they are, making egos huge. Add the ego to the debt load, and you have a recipe for the narcisistic personality laced with more than a little agita...:cool:
Yep.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top