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America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Yeah, speaking of ratings... strange how offering an alternative viewpoint from the lockstep state-run media draws viewers. Hmm.

Yeah so does American Idol and Big Brother...I wouldn't be too proud of it myself :D
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Yeah, speaking of ratings... strange how offering an alternative viewpoint from the lockstep state-run media draws viewers. Hmm.

If you added up the viewership from the socialist media conglomerate it's on par with the breath of fresh air that is FoxNews....odd how that works out when the percentage of Rs to Ds is basically the same.

I wonder if that's just a coincidence.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

If you added up the viewership from the socialist media conglomerate it's on par with the breath of fresh air that is FoxNews....odd how that works out when the percentage of Rs to Ds is basically the same.

I wonder if that's just a coincidence.

Probably not. At least you went the intelligent route (rare for you) as opposed to Handyman's "duhhhhhhhh Americans are stupid" route.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Probably not. At least you went the intelligent route (rare for you) as opposed to Handyman's "duhhhhhhhh Americans are stupid" route.

Hey I am not the one on here spouting off about how my cable news station (cause well, I dont have one) gets great ratings! That is like when St. Cloud fans used to be happy just beating the Gophers or when Gopher fans used to be happy not winning National Titles because they had an All-Minnesota squad. None of it means anything. :)

In point of fact though, Americans are pretty dumb...I mean they voted for Bush Jr. twice and Obama once and they keep electing the idiots in Congress back to Congress :D
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Well, I see a lot of intellegent discourse occured while I was at work today:p
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I don't know how many of you out there spend time on CNN, but I think it's mostly time on Pravda and World Net Daily around here. At any rate, and interesting take from a NH primary care physician who's been watching the Massachusetts medical situation since they instituted their own attempt at universal health care.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/20/pho.doctor.shortage/index.html

He obviously wants universal coverage, but doesn't think the current medical system could handle it, given what he's seen out of MA.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I don't know how many of you out there spend time on CNN, but I think it's mostly time on Pravda and World Net Daily around here. At any rate, and interesting take from a NH primary care physician who's been watching the Massachusetts medical situation since they instituted their own attempt at universal health care.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/20/pho.doctor.shortage/index.html

He obviously wants universal coverage, but doesn't think the current medical system could handle it, given what he's seen out of MA.

Spot on.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I don't know how many of you out there spend time on CNN, but I think it's mostly time on Pravda and World Net Daily around here. At any rate, and interesting take from a NH primary care physician who's been watching the Massachusetts medical situation since they instituted their own attempt at universal health care.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/20/pho.doctor.shortage/index.html

He obviously wants universal coverage, but doesn't think the current medical system could handle it, given what he's seen out of MA.

Well, its really another one of those things where noble ideals trump rational thought. Before the name Romney gets mentioned lets note that MA would have gotten universal coverage either way because MA's legislature is veto-proof and also not above subverting the will of its own people and its constitution.

The fact of the matter is there isn't enough doctors in this society to go that way and if there were we'd have to commit and even larger share to health care at the same time that we talk about shrinking the costs. This is what happens when you shoehorn up a utopian ideal and just presume that the magic steps will happen (as I've seen some argue in technology related threads). That isn't how things work.

Let's also note that universal health care is not a crisis of the moment... this has been bandied about in times where the costs concerns were not nearly as high. That should serve to remind people that this is mostly a fight of ideological concerns rather than practicality and pragmatism. Pragmatism would say "ok, how do we take this system and make it more efficient"... not "this system couldn't possibly fit our moral standards so lets chuck it".
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Well, its really another one of those things where noble ideals trump rational thought. Before the name Romney gets mentioned lets note that MA would have gotten universal coverage either way because MA's legislature is veto-proof and also not above subverting the will of its own people and its constitution.

The fact of the matter is there isn't enough doctors in this society to go that way and if there were we'd have to commit and even larger share to health care at the same time that we talk about shrinking the costs. This is what happens when you shoehorn up a utopian ideal and just presume that the magic steps will happen (as I've seen some argue in technology related threads). That isn't how things work.

Let's also note that universal health care is not a crisis of the moment... this has been bandied about in times where the costs concerns were not nearly as high. That should serve to remind people that this is mostly a fight of ideological concerns rather than practicality and pragmatism. Pragmatism would say "ok, how do we take this system and make it more efficient"... not "this system couldn't possibly fit our moral standards so lets chuck it".
You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Patman again..

Edit -- reading that Peolosi demands the public option and El Presidente is possibly willing to toss it to get a bill passed. Will it come to a point that the Chicago machine throws her under the El?
 
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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Well, its really another one of those things where noble ideals trump rational thought. Before the name Romney gets mentioned lets note that MA would have gotten universal coverage either way because MA's legislature is veto-proof and also not above subverting the will of its own people and its constitution.

The fact of the matter is there isn't enough doctors in this society to go that way and if there were we'd have to commit and even larger share to health care at the same time that we talk about shrinking the costs. This is what happens when you shoehorn up a utopian ideal and just presume that the magic steps will happen (as I've seen some argue in technology related threads). That isn't how things work.

Let's also note that universal health care is not a crisis of the moment... this has been bandied about in times where the costs concerns were not nearly as high. That should serve to remind people that this is mostly a fight of ideological concerns rather than practicality and pragmatism. Pragmatism would say "ok, how do we take this system and make it more efficient"... not "this system couldn't possibly fit our moral standards so lets chuck it".

Yep, it's mostly a fight about control of the populace.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I don't know how many of you out there spend time on CNN, but I think it's mostly time on Pravda and World Net Daily around here. At any rate, and interesting take from a NH primary care physician who's been watching the Massachusetts medical situation since they instituted their own attempt at universal health care.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/20/pho.doctor.shortage/index.html

He obviously wants universal coverage, but doesn't think the current medical system could handle it, given what he's seen out of MA.

Good article. I'll add the following points to the idea of a shortage of providers:

1) The doctor glosses over a bit about nurse practicioners and others seeing patients. That's been my experience with my provider, and its usually the same or next day that I've gotten an appointment. That has to be factored in when discussing any shortage.

2) Access can also be expanded by such things as the clinics CVS wants to set up in their stores to handle some care. There's a move to do this in Boston, but I believe the high school dropout, 500 year incumbent mayor is opposed to it for reasons I'm not sure of, and nothing gets done in the city without his approval. Anyway, the point is this will help immeasurably with access to care.

3) Lastly, I haven't seen this subject brought up yet, but highly qualified people educating in other countries seem to encounter a lot of hoops trying to get certified/hired/etc in this country. A good friend of mine, highly educated (he was from Pakistan but I forget what university he went to) had to wait years to get a job a as a doctor, and in the meantime was doing ridiculously low level work. Obviously the training needs to be comparable, but perhaps this is an area that can be looked at to help on the doctor shortfall front.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Moving on from the article, what I'm seeing from some posters here is the notion that we'd like to cover more people, but we can't because of shortages or something else. What then, may I ask, is your solution to covering more people? If this doctor shortfall comes to pass, should we kick millions more off of insurance to maintain current doctor/patient ratios??? Do any of you advocating this currently not have insurance? Are you in favor of locking in the current level of insured at its current #, and then you can only get insurance if somebody else loses it?

I ask all this because what happens when the economy picks up and millions more people are covered through their employers? Won't the doctor shortage just get worse? Perhaps addressing that issue needs to happen anyway, and not covering people isn't a solution after all.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

You could train general practitioners without going through all the rigors of medical school because they just need to know a little about a lot and refer you to someone else. (Obviously that would take a while to figure out the right system to use, and very few people would enter it to begin with so it would be a more long term solution) You could also provide financial incentives for people to become GPs like loan forgiveness etc.
 
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