America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

[MCFan16]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

We shouldn't insure the 40 something million people without insurance?

No, not really.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

These things cut costs?

Covering people without insurance? yes - less ER visits & better screening for potential problems before they become life threatening.

Pre-existing conditions covered? no - no cost saves there but the right thing to do (unless you're an idiot...oh sorry MC I didn't see your post ).

Routine testing such as yearly check ups, mammograms should be covered? yes - again catching problems before they require more expensive treatment later on.

Obama responsible for last 40 years of health care waste? no - no cost savings in refuting that part of the doctor's assertion.

 

[pardonme]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/opinion/18herbert.html?ref=opinion

This summarizes things pretty well. They are essentially going to end up just passing the parts that increase costs, and the insurance and drug companies will make a lot of money off of it.

 

[PCM]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I was watching Bill Maher on Friday and he sent Dana Gould (comedian and correspondent) to both the Town Hall meeting and the free medical deal at the Staples Center. It was amazing to see how all the people without insurance were calm and collected just trying to get some essential services they can't afford normally (like glasses, checkups...etc) while the people who have insurance are the ones screaming at the top of their lungs at the Town Hall meeting acting as if somehow life is being unfair to them! They had the vitriol and the anger and for what...no one was taking anything away from them?

That this is happening should surprise nobody. When a poll finds that 68 percent of Americans are satisfied with their health care coverage and and 74 percent rate their health care as good to excellent, it tells you that many people are concerned that something they like is going to change for the worse.

Do most Americans want health care costs brought under control and lowered? Yes. Do most Americans want people to be able to purchase affordable health care insurance if they want it? Yes.

Unfortunately for Obama, that doesn't translate into most Americans wanting a huge government bureaucracy attempting to manage health care and ballooning an already massive federal deficit in the middle of a recession. So it's no wonder that many people get upset when Democrats propose a fix for something that a majority of Americans don't think is broken.

It reminded me of the protests we used to always see at Mariucci before Sioux games. There would be 20-30 people holding up signs and screaming to high heaven how wrong it was to demean the Sioux Indians this way and not one of the people protesting was of Sioux background. Lots of White People protesting something they have no stake in.

Not even close. In fact, it's the exact opposite of what's going on with health care. The Sioux name protestors represent the minority of a minority. They want to force their views on the majority. It's a change that even a majority of the alleged victims oppose.

With health care, a majority of Americans are largely satisfied with the status quo and don't want to risk fouling up a system that -- for the most part -- works for them. They're not opposed to lowering health care costs and helping the less fortunate, but they don't want to do it in a manner that jeopardizes what they have.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Call your office, Rover. The talking point is 47 million.

18 million of which are people who can afford insurance but don't want it.
12.6 million of which are illegal immigrants.
9.4 million of which are people between jobs and temporarily uninsured.
8.4 million of which are adults aged 18-25 who are indestructible prefer to spend their income on other things.
8 million of which are children who are covered, but their parents haven't signed them up.
3.5 million of which are people eligible for existing government programs but haven't signed up.

Also, I need some help with a math question. What's 300 - 47?

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Call your office, Rover. The talking point is 47 million.

18 million of which are people who can afford insurance but don't want it.
12.6 million of which are illegal immigrants.
9.4 million of which are people between jobs and temporarily uninsured.
8.4 million of which are adults aged 18-25 who are indestructible prefer to spend their income on other things.
8 million of which are children who are covered, but their parents haven't signed them up.
3.5 million of which are people eligible for existing government programs but haven't signed up.

Also, I need some help with a math question. What's 300 - 47?

I'll quote a line from one of my favorite movies, Back to School:

"Do you just make this bullsh !t up as you go along or do you actually read this stuff somewhere"?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I see a turtle withdrawing into its shell.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

When I had shoulder surgery last summer on an outpatient basis, it was done at a center with leather chairs in the waiting room, private recovery rooms, marble floors and very nice woodwork. The surgical center is owned by a local non-profit hospital and is the preferred choice for its surgeons for day surgery. I'm sure United Healthcare approved most of the costs of the procedure. I always wonder why hospitals and clinics invest so much in advertising, bigger/better buildings and spa-like environments, and how much that fluff adds to healthcare's total cost.

Most accounting I have seen of health care costs say "brick and mortar" is in the realm of 6-10% of the total. If they spend 30% more than they should have for some marble floors and leather chairs, they've increased the cost of healthcare by 1.8-3%. Not great, but I don't think it's the problem with healthcare costs.

 

[MCFan16]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Call your office, Rover. The talking point is 47 million.

18 million of which are people who can afford insurance but don't want it.
12.6 million of which are illegal immigrants.
9.4 million of which are people between jobs and temporarily uninsured.
8.4 million of which are adults aged 18-25 who are indestructible prefer to spend their income on other things.
8 million of which are children who are covered, but their parents haven't signed them up.
3.5 million of which are people eligible for existing government programs but haven't signed up.

Rover, this is why I said no, not really. The number is just a talking point, not a crisis. And its cool you call me an idiot, i'm far more laid back in Canada now, and contrary to popular belief I do have a sense of humor.

 

[Handyman]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

That this is happening should surprise nobody. When a poll finds that 68 percent of Americans are satisfied with their health care coverage and and 74 percent rate their health care as good to excellent, it tells you that many people are concerned that something they like is going to change for the worse.

Do most Americans want health care costs brought under control and lowered? Yes. Do most Americans want people to be able to purchase affordable health care insurance if they want it? Yes.

Unfortunately for Obama, that doesn't translate into most Americans wanting a huge government bureaucracy attempting to manage health care and ballooning an already massive federal deficit in the middle of a recession. So it's no wonder that many people get upset when Democrats propose a fix for something that a majority of Americans don't think is broken.


Not even close. In fact, it's the exact opposite of what's going on with health care. The Sioux name protestors represent the minority of a minority. They want to force their views on the majority. It's a change that even a majority of the alleged victims oppose.

With health care, a majority of Americans are largely satisfied with the status quo and don't want to risk fouling up a system that -- for the most part -- works for them. They're not opposed to lowering health care costs and helping the less fortunate, but they don't want to do it in a manner that jeopardizes what they have.

So one poll in the WSJ is enough for you to believe that most Americans are fine with the status quo? I got an idea...walk around Downtown Minneapolis and poll a random 1000 people and see if that poll holds up. Polls are like stats they are for idiots

In point of fact I know NO ONE that is happy with their health care coverage and considering a lot of these "outraged protesters" on Medicare maybe they should shut their fat pie holes!

 

[walrus]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

So one poll in the WSJ is enough for you to believe that most Americans are fine with the status quo?

Status quo, maybe or maybe not but I'd bet a majority don't want to blow the system up.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I see a turtle withdrawing into its shell.

Umm...thanks for sharing Red Cloud but I think they have pills for this condition of yours now.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

So one poll in the WSJ is enough for you to believe that most Americans are fine with the status quo? I got an idea...walk around Downtown Minneapolis and poll a random 1000 people and see if that poll holds up. Polls are like stats they are for idiots

In point of fact I know NO ONE that is happy with their health care coverage and considering a lot of these "outraged protesters" on Medicare maybe they should shut their fat pie holes!

There was a letter to the Star Tribune today from a woman who needed appendix surgery and had to fight tooth and nail with the insurance company to get it done. Meanwhile her husband had some other surgery under Medicare with no fuss and no muss. There a thousands of examples of this out there. Yet, the status quo folks are out in droves.

 

[walrus]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

There was a letter to the Star Tribune today from a woman who needed appendix surgery and had to fight tooth and nail with the insurance company to get it done. Meanwhile her husband had some other surgery under Medicare with no fuss and no muss. There a thousands of examples of this out there. Yet, the status quo folks are out in droves.

Isn't medicare ready to go bankrupt? Then what?

 

[PCM]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

So one poll in the WSJ is enough for you to believe that most Americans are fine with the status quo? I got an idea...walk around Downtown Minneapolis and poll a random 1000 people and see if that poll holds up. Polls are like stats they are for idiots

I hate to break it to you, but Scott Rassmussen is a well-known and respected polling expert. I cited his poll only because I believe it helps explain why many Americans are reacting the way they are to health care reform.

In point of fact I know NO ONE that is happy with their health care coverage and considering a lot of these "outraged protesters" on Medicare maybe they should shut their fat pie holes!

And in 1972, everyone Pauline Kael knew voted for McGovern. He still lost to Nixon in a landslide.

In point of fact, just because you don't know anyone happy with their health care doesn't mean that most Americans are ready to embrace the type of change to the system that's being proposed.

 

[Patman]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

There was a letter to the Star Tribune today from a woman who needed appendix surgery and had to fight tooth and nail with the insurance company to get it done. Meanwhile her husband had some other surgery under Medicare with no fuss and no muss. There a thousands of examples of this out there. Yet, the status quo folks are out in droves.

so are the legions of the members of false dichotomy nation.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Umm...thanks for sharing Red Cloud but I think they have pills for this condition of yours now.

Dodge, dodge, dodge.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Isn't medicare ready to go bankrupt? Then what?

We're going bankrupt. It's only a matter of time. Rome will burn.

so are the legions of the members of false dichotomy nation.

Life is a mirage anyway. I can't see where it matters. Hell, in Canada one person was able to get a book banned from a school district. We're all all the handcart to hell, it's only a matter of time.

 

[ScottM]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

There was a letter to the Star Tribune today from a woman who needed appendix surgery and had to fight tooth and nail with the insurance company to get it done. Meanwhile her husband had some other surgery under Medicare with no fuss and no muss. There a thousands of examples of this out there. Yet, the status quo folks are out in droves.

So, what happened? Did the woman die? Did she pop her own appendix? For every "example" like this, you can probably find just as many where nobody had a problem and their insurance covered their claims without question. I have a few of my own in that regard. I can tell you what happened with the Medicare example. After Medicare paid its limit the doctors and hospitals were probably left holding the bag for the difference, which they either passed on, wrote off or built into their next budget for pricing. It would be interesting to also know if hubby's MD still accepts Medicare patients, or went out of business.

 

[sagard]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I hate to break it to you, but Scott Rassmussen is a well-known and respected polling expert. I cited his poll only because I believe it helps explain why many Americans are reacting the way they are to health care reform.

I think Rasmussen does a nice job quantifying how many are opposed to change. I'm guessing this guy is a little more in tune to why so many are opposed.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/12/health.industry.whistleblower/index.html?iref=newssearch

Lots of money being thrown around to keep things as is. Obama seriously underestimated his oppositions abilities (or overestimated his own) on this battle. He should have known he was going up against an industry that beat the Clintons down, and wouldn't tolerate change easily.

It seems weird to me that my Canadian/Pakistani/Indian friends all prefer to go home for medical and dentistry vs. using the insurance policies they all have to buy here.