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America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I don't really see most companies worth working for as trying to shed their workers' coverage in favor of a public plan, if one ever comes to fruition. When it's a job seekers' market, most companies boast about their various benefit plans and load them with plums. If anything, a cooperative or public plan option may be the least expensive way for some employers, especially smaller shops to offer a semblance of a competitive benefits plan.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Because other companies keep insurance and until their is public option they need the insurance to retain employees? I see the point about saving 3 percent but not sure its really a good one?
I suppose. I just can't see the public option as viable now anyway, so I'm approaching these types of articles assuming that won't be part of the final bill, though.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

http://blogs.ajc.com/jay-bookman-bl...-take-stephen-hawking-to-figure-this-one-out/

Found this humorous.

But my favorite part of the editorial deals with the British health-care system, which if you believe IBD is basically condemning the old and disabled to die.

“People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn’t have a chance in the U.K., where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless,” the editorial claims.

Of course, that same Stephen Hawking who wouldn’t have a chance in the United Kingdom was in fact born in the United Kingdom, has lived his entire life in the United Kingdom and lives there still today, at the ripe old age of 67. (He was in fact hospitalized earlier this month.) Hawking is, you might say, living, breathing proof that these people are first-class fools.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

of course Sir Hawking never goes on to describe why this is the case... at all. In true british fashion we'll raise the union jack, play hail to the queen, and say "because we said so".

um. lost. What does he need to describe. He is here and not killed off. The horrible system appears to have worked.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

um. lost. What does he need to describe. He is here and not killed off. The horrible system appears to have worked.

Good thing he didn't have cancer.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

um. lost. What does he need to describe. He is here and not killed off. The horrible system appears to have worked.

why our system would kill him first of all... unless we want to verge into "this rock wards of tigers" territory.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I didn't get that from his comment at all. I took it as him crediting England, rather than insulting the U.S.

this article has been in a few different forms recently... its a statement on the debate on US health care. Why should he credit his own system over ours... presumably because he feels our system would do bad for him.

I believe i've seen it said that he thinks our system would have done bad by him but i'm not 100% sure.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Why should he credit his own system over ours
Because someone wrote a poorly researched article that insinuated he'd be dead because of his own system? :confused:
I believe i've seen it said that he thinks our system would have done bad by him but i'm not 100% sure.
I've only seen the one quote and the one version of the article, or at least this morning's is similar enough to last night's that I don't notice a difference, so I can't comment on that.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

A doctor's response to Obama's op-ed...

Mr. President,

I just read your op-ed in the New York Times. You must either be incredibly ignorant (e.g., pediatricians performing tonsillectomies, surgeons being paid $50,000 for an amputation), or else you believe that Americans are incredibly stupid.

You justify a hasty and massive healthcare "reform" to save money, by spending an additional trillion dollars. You would fix a "broken" and broke Medicare system by adding another 47 million beneficiaries to government programs while arguing this will reduce overall costs.

I've itemized your inaccurate claims, with my comments in italics.

You assert that your healthcare reform will:

· Force insurance companies to insure pre-existing conditions. That's like allowing bettors to wait till after the race has been run, to place their bets. That won't cut costs.

· Eliminate lifetime limits on coverage. Unlimited lifetime coverages must increase premiums to pay for them and will raise total costs.

· Require insurance companies to pay for routine examinations, preventive care, and screening tests like mammograms and colonoscopies. Once again, how can you be insured against a sure thing? The only way my company can pay for a colonoscopy is to add enough onto the premium to pay for it, plus their overhead.

· Make Medicare more efficient, so tax dollars won't enrich insurance companies. Insurance companies do not derive income from Medicare, because it is a federal program. Incidentally, its costs per patient have increased much faster than private insurance.

· Cut hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and inefficiency in federal health programs like Medicare and Medicaid. These programs have been in effect over 40 years -- and I've seen the waste and inefficiency for most of that interval. Did you just find out about the waste and inefficiency now, and why hasn't something already been done about it?

You claim that:

· "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan." But didn't you just imply this week that Medicare Advantage subsidizes insurance companies and should be eliminated to save money?

· "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." But large numbers of doctors have indicated that they will quit or retire if this plan is enacted

· "You will not be waiting in any lines." Maybe you won't but we will. Your plan will add up to 47 million new insureds, with no increase in the supply of primary care physicians that are already in short supply.

We physicians live with our healthcare system, all day and every day. We care about being able to heal. We hate disputing with insurance companies, and especially with government bureaucrats. Certainly changes in insurance practices are needed, and would have occurred long ago, absent a government record of 60 years of meddling with the market.

As you say, "...let's disagree over issues that are real, and not wild misrepresentations" such as those in your op-ed, "that bear no resemblance to anything that anyone has actually proposed."

And I agree, this is about America's future: whether Americans will remain free, or be ruled by an increasingly intrusive and authoritarian statist government.

G. Wesley Clark, MD
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Does Stephen Hawking use the National Health Insurance or his own private doctor? I believe both are allowed in the UK.

Has anyone looked at the French system? It appears to have some things that (sacre bleu!!) actually work.
 
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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I always enjoy MinnFan's posts because they really bring home how simple the average conservative thinks. :D This "doctor"'s rant is pretty amusing. Lets take it one by one:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. President,

You justify a hasty and massive healthcare "reform" to save money, by spending an additional trillion dollars. You would fix a "broken" and broke Medicare system by adding another 47 million beneficiaries to government programs while arguing this will reduce overall costs.

Ummm...two different goals here. Insuring more people and helping to pay for it by cutting costs/inefficiencies. So...doc, we shouldn't try to insure the 47M???

I've itemized your inaccurate claims, with my comments in italics.

You assert that your healthcare reform will:

· Force insurance companies to insure pre-existing conditions. That's like allowing bettors to wait till after the race has been run, to place their bets. That won't cut costs. Somebody explain the betting analogy, because I don't get it. Why would a doctor care if insurance companies have to cover pre-existing conditions? If you lose your insurance, and have a pre-existing condition, you're just supposed to live your life without insurance???

· Eliminate lifetime limits on coverage. Unlimited lifetime coverages must increase premiums to pay for them and will raise total costs.

So be it. Some things are going to cost more, some things less (drug co's and hospitals accepting 250B less in payments for example). Again, what's the alternative - people driven into bankrupcy for long term ailments???

· Require insurance companies to pay for routine examinations, preventive care, and screening tests like mammograms and colonoscopies. Once again, how can you be insured against a sure thing? The only way my company can pay for a colonoscopy is to add enough onto the premium to pay for it, plus their overhead.

So we shouldn't get people screened ahead of time, and wait for a condition to develop that needs more aggressive (and expense treatment)? This would save money in the long term???

· Make Medicare more efficient, so tax dollars won't enrich insurance companies. Insurance companies do not derive income from Medicare, because it is a federal program. Incidentally, its costs per patient have increased much faster than private insurance.

Hence the effort to squeeze savings out of Medicare.

· Cut hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and inefficiency in federal health programs like Medicare and Medicaid. These programs have been in effect over 40 years -- and I've seen the waste and inefficiency for most of that interval. Did you just find out about the waste and inefficiency now, and why hasn't something already been done about it?

How is this Obama's problem? He took office in January. We shouldn't do anything about waste because nobody's done anything for the last 40 years? Great logic there. Hope I never run into this guy in the ER.

You claim that:

· "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan." But didn't you just imply this week that Medicare Advantage subsidizes insurance companies and should be eliminated to save money?

He's not talking aobut Medicare. He's talking about private insurance. Where did this guy go to school? The "Papa Doc" Duvalier school of Medicine in Haiti?

· "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor." But large numbers of doctors have indicated that they will quit or retire if this plan is enacted

Proof please. Where's the evidence of this claim? People are going to retire instead of continuing to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in a lucrative profession just to protest govt policy? Okayyyyy

· "You will not be waiting in any lines." Maybe you won't but we will. Your plan will add up to 47 million new insureds, with no increase in the supply of primary care physicians that are already in short supply.

More demand leads to more supply.

We physicians live with our healthcare system, all day and every day. We care about being able to heal. We hate disputing with insurance companies, and especially with government bureaucrats. Certainly changes in insurance practices are needed, and would have occurred long ago, absent a government record of 60 years of meddling with the market.

People dropped for pre-existing conditions, cheaper drug alternatives kept off the market, 9 million different forms to fill out, no electronic billing, - the govt caused this???

As you say, "...let's disagree over issues that are real, and not wild misrepresentations" such as those in your op-ed, "that bear no resemblance to anything that anyone has actually proposed."

And I agree, this is about America's future: whether Americans will remain free, or be ruled by an increasingly intrusive and authoritarian statist government.

Is this a medical opinion?

G. Wesley Clark, MD
 
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Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I love how Rover put "doctor" in quotes, like it wasn't a real doctor who wrote that.

What part of my taking apart the doctor's commentary do you disagree with? We shouldn't insure the 40 something million people without insurance? Pre-existing conditions shouldn't be covered? Routine tests shouldn't be run to catch potential problems early on? Obama's responsible for health care over the past 40 years?

To your other point, I like putting a few plants here and there in an audience. Why not, if the other side is doing it? :D
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Does Stephen Hawking use the National Health Insurance or his own private doctor? I believe both are allowed in the UK.

Has anyone looked at the French system? It appears to have some things that (sacre bleu!!) actually work.

Interesting point. I work for an architectural firm that specializes in Health Care. One of our architects happened to take vacation in France this spring and took photos in a local hospital of a similar size to the ones we typically work on in a similar sized town to the ones we work in. In the US, few patients would be happy with the facilities he saw there. Wards or at best two-bed rooms (few US hospitals have either any more), extremely harsh - institutional look that went out in the 60s here, very limited diagnostic equipment, etc.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Wasn't France ranked #1 by the WHO recently...wouldn't it be a little difficult under the conditions you describe? (I could be wrong I guess)
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

Interesting point. I work for an architectural firm that specializes in Health Care. One of our architects happened to take vacation in France this spring and took photos in a local hospital of a similar size to the ones we typically work on in a similar sized town to the ones we work in. In the US, few patients would be happy with the facilities he saw there. Wards or at best two-bed rooms (few US hospitals have either any more), extremely harsh - institutional look that went out in the 60s here, very limited diagnostic equipment, etc.

When I had shoulder surgery last summer on an outpatient basis, it was done at a center with leather chairs in the waiting room, private recovery rooms, marble floors and very nice woodwork. The surgical center is owned by a local non-profit hospital and is the preferred choice for its surgeons for day surgery. I'm sure United Healthcare approved most of the costs of the procedure. I always wonder why hospitals and clinics invest so much in advertising, bigger/better buildings and spa-like environments, and how much that fluff adds to healthcare's total cost.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

I was watching Bill Maher on Friday and he sent Dana Gould (comedian and correspondent) to both the Town Hall meeting and the free medical deal at the Staples Center. It was amazing to see how all the people without insurance were calm and collected just trying to get some essential services they can't afford normally (like glasses, checkups...etc) while the people who have insurance are the ones screaming at the top of their lungs at the Town Hall meeting acting as if somehow life is being unfair to them! They had the vitriol and the anger and for what...no one was taking anything away from them?

It reminded me of the protests we used to always see at Mariucci before Sioux games. There would be 20-30 people holding up signs and screaming to high heaven how wrong it was to demean the Sioux Indians this way and not one of the people protesting was of Sioux background. Lots of White People protesting something they have no stake in.
 
Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - The USCHO debates

What part of my taking apart the doctor's commentary do you disagree with? We shouldn't insure the 40 something million people without insurance? Pre-existing conditions shouldn't be covered? Routine tests shouldn't be run to catch potential problems early on? Obama's responsible for health care over the past 40 years?

These things cut costs?
 
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