America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

[The Sicatoka]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

J-Rock says "nope".

 

[mookie1995]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

How is it making my plan cheaper?

What page of the bill has that information?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

J-Rock says "nope".

LOL

No Snowe support, and no left-wing support. ***.

Down goes the Titanic.

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I still don't think this plan will cut costs. At least not for me and anyone else that has decent health insurance.

How it affects people who already have coverage will only be known over time as the success of various cost savings measures in the system (drug and medical industry's concessions, insurance industry's pledge to cut 2T in inefficencies in the system, independent govt commission to find ways to reduce health care spending, etc). The most noticeable result of any of this would be if your premiums stopped accelerating every year.

Every US citizen must have insurance is a plus. But there will still be huge amounts of uncovered people (too lazy or cheap to get insurance, or illegals, etc.) that Hospitals will have to absorb the cost of. So while that's an improvement but not a great one cost wise.

Lazy people are out of luck, as they either get insurance or they pay a fine. That's benefitial as 1) more people sharing the load, and 2) less ER visits for the lazies. Illegal immigration is a problem, but that's an entirely separate bill/effort.

Medicaid expanding is bad. Period. Just what we need to more unproductive people collecting off the taxpayers.

This is a very stereotypical and a bit disingenous comment for you. I'd expect it out of Red Cloud, MinnFan, Patman, etc. I'd venture to guess that a vast majority of people who use Medicare aren't on it because they just don't feel like working. They could be very productive, just either working low wage jobs, or in this economy having trouble finding a job.

High price plans being taxed is not good either. Like those insurance companies won't just raise rates to compensate for it. Or if they are too expensive then the people that have them will be forced into plans that have worse coverage. Less money usually equals less benefits.

The point is they'll drop these really expensive plans. They may have less coverage but it'll be more in line with most plans.

les,

Start cutting flowers then. A lack of providers can be taken care of by gasp the market. Let people go to health care clinics like the CVS's are trying to start up, and stop making it so d@ mn hard for people trained overseas to be able to practice medicine. Your concern is legitimate, but its not a reason to keep 40M people without insurance.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Rover, I'm betting this guy has more in depth details that you...

UPDATE: Wyden Sounds Off on Baucus Plan

As Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., chairman of the Finance Committee, prepares to discuss his "chairman's mark" Wednesday at 12 noon on Capitol Hill, Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden, one of the Democrats who sits on the panel, has elaborated on his misgivings with the Baucus plan in an interview with Washington Post columnist Ruth Marcus.

Wyden says the legislation would cost lower-income Americans too much and give many people too little choice of insurance plans.

"If the Baucus proposal passes," he said, "They're going to say, 'Huh? Health-care security means I pay a whole lot more than I'm paying today or I get to be exempt from it, or I pay a penalty?' They're not going to say that meets the definition of health-care security.'"

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

No Snowe support ...

Yes, Snowe has fallen ... away from this.

More about J-Rock's concerns.

The West Virginia Democrat worries, however, that a lot of middle class workers, like the coal miners in his state, will end up facing "a big, big tax" under the Baucus bill because they currently enjoy generous employer-provided health care benefits which they receive tax free.

Referring to Baucus, Rockefeller said, "He should understand that (his proposal) means that virtually every single coal miner is going to have a big, big tax put on them because the tax will be put on the company and the company will immediately pass it down and lower benefits because they are self insured, most of them, because they are larger. They will pass it down, lower benefits, and probably this will mean higher premiums for coal miners who are getting very good health care benefits for a very good reason. That is, like steelworkers and others, they are doing about the most dangerous job that can be done in America."

J-Rock is wrong about one thing however: Mike Rowe has the most dangerous, and dirtiest, job in America.

 

[moe24]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

J-Rock is wrong about one thing however: Mike Rowe has the most dangerous, and dirtiest, job in America.

Mike Rowe may have the dirtiest job, but most dangerous goes to the crab fleet from Deadliest Catch.

Thanks for letting me briefly hijack this thread.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Snowe and rock better get wise and call rover now. He'll tell them all about the 'if''s that will save us money.


Someone needs to sit down and fix it now so it works for everyone. If all this bs is just to 'cover' these supposed 40mm for all this money, I don't care. Get a job that has hc.

Unreal...

 

[Rover]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I think you guys are missing a couple of important points here.

1) Baucus' plan is one committee's bill. It needed to be completed before anything else moves forward. What comes out of the Senate as a whole will be tweaked to attract more support.

2) Not voting for a bill does not equal supporting a GOP filibuster. Somebody like Rockefeller could very well not decide to vote in favor of the bill itself, but could (and most likely would) decide to let the bill come up for a vote. A very important distinction.

 

[SteveF]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Here's the thing. You're unusual in that you're both vociferously attacking Obama's plan and you appear to be, for the most part, sane and of good will. So, sincerely, what do you think the biggest problems with health coverage are and how would you solve them?

why even respond to people who just type what is on a bumper sticker?

 

[LynahFan]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Here's the thing. You're unusual in that you're both vociferously attacking Obama's plan and you appear to be, for the most part, sane and of good will. So, sincerely, what do you think the biggest problems with health coverage are and how would you solve them?

I honestly have no idea. I wish I did.

My objections to Obama's plan are just straightforward less-is-more when it comes to government. I don't think the government is good at "running businesses" and this plan amounts to the government trying to make all the business decisions for the health insurers - who they must cover, what procedures they must cover, what they will pay the providers for those procedures, etc. The insurers will be so boxed in as far as what the product is that they're offering and what their costs will be, there will be practically no competition left in the market - and therefore less innovation.

At the end of it all, I just don't feel like we really are "entitled" to health care. 10,000 years ago, our ancestors were living in caves and loving it. 10,000 years from now, if there are any left, our descendants may be as well. We're no different from any other species on this lonely little rock - we're born, we live, we die, and we don't all get equal, long lifespans despite our best efforts. It's natural and just the way things are, and we're swimming upstream against Niagara Falls trying to change it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

I honestly have no idea. I wish I did.

My objections to Obama's plan are just straightforward less-is-more when it comes to government. I don't think the government is good at "running businesses" and this plan amounts to the government trying to make all the business decisions for the health insurers - who they must cover, what procedures they must cover, what they will pay the providers for those procedures, etc. The insurers will be so boxed in as far as what the product is that they're offering and what their costs will be, there will be practically no competition left in the market - and therefore less innovation.

At the end of it all, I just don't feel like we really are "entitled" to health care. 10,000 years ago, our ancestors were living in caves and loving it. 10,000 years from now, if there are any left, our descendants may be as well. We're no different from any other species on this lonely little rock - we're born, we live, we die, and we don't all get equal, long lifespans despite our best efforts. It's natural and just the way things are, and we're swimming upstream against Niagara Falls trying to change it.

Sure, and maybe we shouldn't educate everyone as well. That's natural.

 

[ScottM]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

How is it making my plan cheaper?

What page of the bill has that information?

Where do I sign up for a death panel?

 

[ScottM]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Sure, and maybe we shouldn't educate everyone as well. That's natural.

Judging by the quality of public education in many places, I'm not sure you really want to take that trip.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Judging by the quality of public education in many places, I'm not sure you really want to take that trip.

LOL

Easily fix that if we stop educating everyone. Go to a Japanese system and we can filter out all the riff-raff in a hurry. Large chunk of the quality problem is the students themselves.

 

[MattS]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

How it affects people who already have coverage will only be known over time as the success of various cost savings measures in the system (drug and medical industry's concessions, insurance industry's pledge to cut 2T in inefficencies in the system, independent govt commission to find ways to reduce health care spending, etc). The most noticeable result of any of this would be if your premiums stopped accelerating every year.

Call me a cynic but I am still suspicious of any type of savings. Especially voluntary one's from the industry. Hopefully your faith in the Government isn't in vain and my premiums will actually stop increasing at an increasing rate.

Lazy people are out of luck, as they either get insurance or they pay a fine. That's benefitial as 1) more people sharing the load, and 2) less ER visits for the lazies. Illegal immigration is a problem, but that's an entirely separate bill/effort.

See I think there will be a significant portion of lazies (& maybe crazies) would rather pay a fine than pay a premium. Hopefully not but...

This is a very stereotypical and a bit disingenous comment for you. I'd expect it out of Red Cloud, MinnFan, Patman, etc. I'd venture to guess that a vast majority of people who use Medicare aren't on it because they just don't feel like working. They could be very productive, just either working low wage jobs, or in this economy having trouble finding a job.

Which is it that they are putting money into? Medicare or Medicaid? I don't like medicare but I understand it. But medicaid is a complete waste of money. Nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.

The point is they'll drop these really expensive plans. They may have less coverage but it'll be more in line with most plans.

Easy to say when your not the one in need of the best coverage. I am sure the cancer patient that has a kickass health insurance plan will be happy when there plan is suddenly exponentially more money or is dropped for a lesser one.

Just for the record I do believe that everyone that is a productive member of society should have some type of minimal health care. I just think the way we are going about some of this is wrong.

 

[MattS]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

LOL

Easily fix that if we stop educating everyone. Go to a Japanese system and we can filter out all the riff-raff in a hurry. Large chunk of the quality problem is the students themselves.

Blame the children not the adults creating and working in the system or the parents! Well done!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Blame the children not the adults creating and working in the system or the parents! Well done!

Hey, if two dummies decide to get it on a procreate why should I pay to educate their kid?

 

[MattS]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Hey, if two dummies decide to get it on a procreate why should I pay to educate their kid?

Now I remember why I use to have you on my ignore list. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[moe24]

Re: America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 - Part 2 - Deathers vs. Commies

Whooooooooosh!!!!