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All Things Denver, XXVIII

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Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Here are some of my ramblings on the subject, but with an eye on the bigger picture of DU sports....

Gwoz has a lot of friends both in the media and around DU, and he's trying to get a deal done and use what contract leverage he has. Gwoz signed a 10 year deal in 2002, which was extended after DU's NCAA titles in the middle of the decade, so I believe the extended contract expires in about 2014.

Gwoz obviously wants a deal that will keep him at or near the top of college hockey coaches, and would make him the highest-paid coach at DU. He'd probably like to close out his coaching career here and he's earned it by bringing the Pioneers into a perennial top 10 program. He's likely also chafed by the fact that DU's much-lower profile men's hoops coach currently makes more than he does, even though Gwoz' program is the only athletic program at the school that actually makes money. He's probably also chafed that other college hockey coaches have better deals now than he does, and his little visit to Columbus last summer was a warning shot accross DU's bow to get going on an extension. With his daugther graduating from high school, Gwoz also becomes more attractive to other programs (perhaps Penn State?).

On the other side, you have the DU administration. They probably look at Gwozdecky a little differently. He's doing a great job as coach and I'm sure they'd like to sign him to a deal that is appropriate for the next 5-10 years. DU's problem though, is that the next 5-10 years are probably going to be very different than right now. First, you have the whole WCHA/Big 10 mess coming down the pike soon. If DU is forced into a diluted WCHA with less attractive opponents, less TV, less gate and less tourney revenue and a loss of recruiting advantage, they probably can't justify paying Gwoz top dollar to coach in what will be second tier, mid-major conference. And with DU being bounced from the NCAA Hockey tourney in the first round against lower seeded teams for the last three seasons, DU's probably also has a little more contract leverage than they did in 2005.

If DU is going to be forced into a lesser conference, maybe they are thinking a less expensive, younger coach with a less expensive staff might be a better long term model for them, either as a reality or as a negotitating tactic to keep their coaching costs down and force Gwoz and his staff to take less money. This Big 10 thing is going to hurt DU badly, and I want to see them get proactive with Notre Dame, North Dakota, Miami, CC, etc to think about their own conference.

Additionally, the DU basketball program is now ascending, and DU is probably looking to generate more gate revenue from hoops to offset the heavier investment they've made into the program, If they can't get to 4,000 fan per home game game from the 2,000 they draw now, the revenue model doesn't grow. They need to get to an NCAA tourney in the next two seasons, or the basketball project will likely not succeed here.

They might pick up a few more dollars in men's lax if that program continues to climb, but that's a big roster sport with a limited about of home dates and a lot of eastern travel, so a revenue-positive positive status probably only happens if Tierney can get attendence into the 5,000-6,000 per game range, which is larger than Barton Stadium (2,000-3,000) can accommodate. They could play more game at Mile High, but 5,000 fans there feels tiny and doesn't really grow revenue much. I could see them adding some bleacher seating at Barton if the crowds grow, but all the 1:30 pm game starts are not going help grow attendance much, as that is the same time that youth lacrosse and their familes are all playing on weekends. DU is somewhat held hostage by the visiting teams, who won't play weekend here unless they can catch an evening flight home...

I also think the overall future of D-I college sports is cloudy. A lot of schools are dropping programs to keep costs down, and DU having to fly its many non-revenue teams all over the place isn't helping. DU will always have travel issues with only 6 D-I schools within 400 miles of Denver, but with costs going up and flat revenue, it's going to take more school money to keep their $25 million sports budget up to date.

I think DU also has to figure on some more capital improvement costs in the coming 5-8 years if they want facilities to remain in the upper echelon. Magness is no longer new. Basketball is going to probably want a practice facility of their own to keep pace. Barton Stadium may need to be expanded. Lighting and sound quality at Magness are both poor, and the corners they cut 10 years ago to finish the building are now entering the realm of embarrassing. All of those things are going to cost money...

All in all, the future is going to be interesting...

Typically well informed, well written analysis. I approach the "Gwoz issue" from a slightly different perspective: whatever it takes. He's earned it, on the ice and in the classroom. And in a time of uncertainty (Big 10) now is not the time to put money first. Gwoz leaving would inevitably (and in my opinion, correctly) be reported as DU going "cheap" and conceding that we can't be successful in the brave new world. Thus greatly increasing the likelihood of a self fulfilling prophecy.

I believe losing Gwoz under these circumstances, at this time, potentially could be as disastrous as dropping into DII, and we all recall how THAT worked out. Eliminating programs may be inevitable, given the travel costs. We're proud that DU is one of only two DI lax programs west of the Mississippi, but we can't play AFA 15 times a year.

We're in an unusual position: hockey is the flagship, no football, and zero tradition in basketball. We seem to be making some progress on the latter, good. I've never seen basketball vs. hockey to be "either/or." But hockey IS the flagship and a head coach who has brought us the success Gwoz has, with no recruiting or academic issues, deserves to be our highest paid coach.
Now is simply not the time to send the message that DU is "retrenching."

BTW, what are these corners we cut in the construction of Magness? Certainly the lighting is a major problem.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

I certainly understand Pio fans concern over any contract squabbles involving Gwoz. But a couple of questions/comments.

First, is it really realistic or appropriate to expect a University to make Gwoz the highest page coach at the school based upon his success (or the BB team's lack thereof) when the markets are so very different for D1 basketball and hockey coaches?

Second, how do Pio fans feel when a coach, prior to achieving his greatest success, is given a very nice, long term contract, that provides a lot of security, then, before that contract is up comes looking for more due to recent success?

Isn't that part of the trade off of a long term contract? The coach gets the security of a long term deal. He knows that if things go to crap the worst that will happen is he'll get canned, and paid off.

It's always bothered me when someone (usually athletes) sign a long term deal, then suddenly start producing at higher level and start pouting (or holding out) if the deal isn't torn up and a brand new deal given.

With Gwoz' success, I could certainly understand the University coming to look to lock him up for much longer. But if they have a contract with him for another 4 years and choose not to negotiate now, I don't have a lot of sympathy if he's unhappy about it. Just my 2 cents.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

BTW, what are these corners we cut in the construction of Magness? Certainly the lighting is a major problem.

We have to remember that Magness Arena was never designed to be a State of the Art Hockey arena first. It was really designed as the best possible sports complex solution to fit (shoehorn?) a wide range of D-I sports facilities (Over 400,000 sq feet worth) into a very specific land footprint. That's why we have so many seats on the ends instead of the sides, etc.

The lighting and sound systems were very likely casualties of the ususal capital budget overruns and high pressure to finish the building 10 years ago, when the economy was booming and prices were high.

Both systems seem to be subpar concessions to speed and cost, and with the passage of 10 years of time since then, are now even more noticaeably poor since the building is no longer new...

Most modern multi-million sports arenas now have excellent, clear sound sytsems and reduced shadow lights. Magness needs both, and I hope they can find the money to correct these aspects to deliver a better experience.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

We have to remember that Magness Arena was never designed to be a State of the Art Hockey arena first. It was really designed as the best possible sports complex solution to fit (shoehorn?) a wide range of D-I sports facilities (Over 400,000 sq feet worth) into a very specific land footprint. That's why we have so many seats on the ends instead of the sides, etc.

The lighting and sound systems were very likely casualties of the ususal capital budget overruns and high pressure to finish the building 10 years ago, when the economy was booming and prices were high.

Both systems seem to be subpar concessions to speed and cost, and with the passage of 10 years of time since then, are now even more noticaeably poor since the building is no longer new...

Most modern multi-million sports arenas now have excellent, clear sound sytsems and reduced shadow lights. Magness needs both, and I hope they can find the money to correct these aspects to deliver a better experience.

Early on, I recall there were plans to be able to reconfigure the playing surface to accomodate both sizes, I'm assuming that was scrapped at least in part due to the huge cost. I know how bad Magness looks on TV, for sure, because of the lighting.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

I certainly understand Pio fans concern over any contract squabbles involving Gwoz. But a couple of questions/comments.

First, is it really realistic or appropriate to expect a University to make Gwoz the highest page coach at the school based upon his success (or the BB team's lack thereof) when the markets are so very different for D1 basketball and hockey coaches?

Second, how do Pio fans feel when a coach, prior to achieving his greatest success, is given a very nice, long term contract, that provides a lot of security, then, before that contract is up comes looking for more due to recent success?

Isn't that part of the trade off of a long term contract? The coach gets the security of a long term deal. He knows that if things go to crap the worst that will happen is he'll get canned, and paid o



It's always bothered me when someone (usually athletes) sign a long term deal, then suddenly start producing at higher level and start pouting (or holding out) if the deal isn't torn up and a brand new deal given.

With Gwoz' success, I could certainly understand the University coming to look to lock him up for much longer. But if they have a contract with him for another 4 years and choose not to negotiate now, I don't have a lot of sympathy if he's unhappy about it. Just my 2 cents.

While I don't necessarily disagree with the principle, that's the way the world works. It's one sided, I know. Years ago, George Allen had great success as defensive coordinator for the Bears and was clearly the heir apparant for when George Halas retired (permanently). However, he was offered and took the job as head coach of the Rams. Halas took him to court--and won. There was a valid contract. But then Halas let him go, figuring Allen might not do his best work under the circumstances. That was a long time ago and contracts just aren't worth what they once were.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Quick question. Roughly how much more money does hockey bring in then basketball?

Depends on how you do the accounting.

Hockey sells about 6,000 seats X 20 average home games at an average ticket price of $25. There are some higher level seats, but then there are student seats that bring the average down so let's keep it $25 for simplicity. Thus gate revenue alone brings in gross revenue of about $3 million. Add in the ancillary revenues from concessions, parking, advertising revenue, sponsorship and merchandise and you get another million or so, give or take. So the hockey porgram generates about $4 million in gross revenue by my estimation.

Now take away your operating expenses (travel, recruiting, equipment, opponent guarantees, medical, etc) and coaching salaries, and there goes $1.5 million of the $4 million out the door. Then take away your other overhead (support staff, game night expenses, promotion and media, a portion of the debt service on the building, your soft dollar scholarship costs, etc.) You probably have about $1.5 million in leftover hockey profit that stays in the department.

Basketball has 2,000 fans x 15 home dates and a $15 ticket cost. That's $450,000 in gate revenue. Add in another $300,000 in ancillary revenues and the program perhaps generates about $750,000. Operating costs, coaches salaries and overhead are probably about $1 million, meaning the program is probably costing at least $250,000 more than it brings in in revenue. When you get 4,000 average fans in the building for each game, you are probably looking at break even or a little profit.

I don't expect any program to generate profit in his day and age. We don't expect the DU symphony, theatre program or opera to make money on tickets, so why should we expect sports to make money?
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Depends on how you do the accounting.

Hockey sells about 6,000 seats X 20 average home games at an average ticket price of $25. There are some higher level seats, but then there are student seats that bring the average down so let's keep it $25 for simplicity. Thus gate revenue alone brings in gross revenue of about $3 million. Add in the ancillary revenues from concessions, parking, advertising revenue, sponsorship and merchandise and you get another million or so, give or take. So the hockey porgram generates about $4 million in gross revenue by my estimation.

Now take away your operating expenses (travel, recruiting, equipment, opponent guarantees, medical, etc) and coaching salaries, and there goes $1.5 million of the $4 million out the door. Then take away your other overhead (support staff, game night expenses, promotion and media, a portion of the debt service on the building, your soft dollar scholarship costs, etc.) You probably have about $1.5 million in leftover hockey profit that stays in the department.

Basketball has 2,000 fans x 15 home dates and a $15 ticket cost. That's $450,000 in gate revenue. Add in another $300,000 in ancillary revenues and the program perhaps generates about $750,000. Operating costs, coaches salaries and overhead are probably about $1 million, meaning the program is probably costing at least $250,000 more than it brings in in revenue. When you get 4,000 average fans in the building for each game, you are probably looking at break even or a little profit.

I don't expect any program to generate profit in his day and age. We don't expect the DU symphony, theatre program or opera to make money on tickets, so why should we expect sports to make money?

Several years ago I saw a piece reporting on profits for major sports programs and was gobsmacked to learn that Michigan (at least then) was in the red! I mean, sell out crowds in "The Biiiiiig House," their bball program was doing well then and selling out, plus a successful hockey program. Got me to thinking that if the boys in blue can't make a profit, what chance do we have? Revenues from that $225 million dollar addition to the football stadium and from the Big 10 Network have surely put them in the black.
 
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Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Thanks, so when it comes down to it all other sports at DU are living off the success of the DU hockey program which is fine but without the success of the hockey program there would be cuts in other sports. With that being said I think they need to take great consideration into extending the contract of their franchaise coach and staff because without them our program suffers and if hockey suffers all programs at DU suffer.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Thanks, so when it comes down to it all other sports at DU are living off the success of the DU hockey program which is fine but without the success of the hockey program there would be cuts in other sports. With that being said I think they need to take great consideration into extending the contract of their franchaise coach and staff because without them our program suffers and if hockey suffers all programs at DU suffer.

Bingo. Seems pretty simple to me. Pay me now or pay me later.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Atlanta Thrashers are expected to call Mannino up for their 3 game western swing. McIntyre has aleady been sent back to Chicago.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Thanks, so when it comes down to it all other sports at DU are living off the success of the DU hockey program which is fine but without the success of the hockey program there would be cuts in other sports. With that being said I think they need to take great consideration into extending the contract of their franchaise coach and staff because without them our program suffers and if hockey suffers all programs at DU suffer.

Okay. So let's pretend that we're all DU AD Peg Bradley Doppes and play this out...

Gwoz and his staff probably cost $600,000 or so in salaries today, not counting the camp revenues and freebies. They do an awesome job on the ice, are popular in the community, graduate kids with good GPAs who stay out of trouble and they will cost you over a million a year later into a long-term contract. You have some peace knowing that they'll probably keep you in the top 10 for now and perhaps maybe even win another NCAA title in the future. If Gwoz gets away from you, you probably also take a 10% hit in ticket sales, made worse by the 20% hit you are going to take if DU has to play in the lesser WCHA in 2014. Your overall budget may sink a bit in the short term,

On the other hand, DU's had three straight frustrating early NCAA exits in a row and some people are starting to see a sense of hockey complacency setting in. Your coach has also fired some warning shots at you with the OSU dalliance and his media friends -- and some people in your department might also resent the power thats accrued over the years in the hockey dept. If you hired a promising young coach and his young staff instead, you could save about $250,000 right away and perhaps a half a million long term that you could plow into other things, such as a growing men's basketball program. Additionally, the new lesser WCHA in 2014 means reduced revenue without UW and UM, lost revenue that would have funded the keeping of Gwoz and Co.. By hiring a new hockey staff, you could also regain more power in your department by hiring younger and less powerful people who won't rock your boat as much.

Bottom line is this: If a promising young coach can win over top level recruits and compete well in the league, are the staff salary savings worth it?

That is the question DU needs to wrestle with...Personally, I say Gwoz is worth it.
 
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Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Okay. So let's pretend that we're all DU AD Peg Bradley Doppes and play this out...

Gwoz and his staff probably cost $600,000 or so in salaries today, not counting the camp revenues and freebies. They do an awesome job on the ice, are popular in the community, graduate kids with good GPAs who stay out of trouble and they will cost you over a million a year later into a long-term contract. You have some peace knowing that they'll probably keep you in the top 10 for now and perhaps maybe even win another NCAA title in the future. If Gwoz gets away from you, you probably also take a 10% hit in ticket sales, made worse by the 20% hit you are going to take if DU has to play in the lesser WCHA in 2014. Your overall budget may sink a bit in the short term,

On the other hand, DU's had three straight frustrating early NCAA exits in a row and some people are starting to see a sense of hockey complacency setting in. Your coach has also fired some warning shots at you with the OSU dalliance and his media friends -- and some people in your department might also resent the power thats accrued over the years in the hockey dept. If you hired a promising young coach and his young staff instead, you could save about $250,000 right away and perhaps a half a million long term that you could plow into other things, such as a growing men's basketball program. Additionally, the new lesser WCHA in 2014 means reduced revenue without UW and UM, lost revenue that would have funded the keeping of Gwoz and Co.. By hiring a new hockey staff, you could also regain more power in your department by hiring younger and less powerful people who won't rock your boat as much.

Bottom line is this: If a promising young coach can win over top level recruits and compete well in the league, are the staff salary savings worth it?

That is the question DU needs to wrestle with...Personally, I say Gwoz is worth it.

Bird in the hand. The early outs in the tournament are concerning. I had not thought of complacency being causal. We learned after last year of a significant number of injuries requiring surgery, that surely was a factor. Some teams seem to peak for post season play, lately that hasn't been us.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Bird in the hand. The early outs in the tournament are concerning. I had not thought of complacency being causal. We learned after last year of a significant number of injuries requiring surgery, that surely was a factor. Some teams seem to peak for post season play, lately that hasn't been us.

Injuries are always part of the game. The nine surgeries DU had last year tell you alot, but the bigger picture is also deeply concerning. Bottom line is the last three years DU was seeded high in the NCAAs but got brutally spanked by lower-seeded UW in '08 and Miami in '09 and then got stunned in a close one by lower-seeded RIT in '10. When you get beat three straight times in the first round of the big dance by three lesser teams, there is almost certainly a complacency issue somewhere in there. This is also exacerbated by the two other years (2005-2006 and 2006-2007) when DU had strong teams that got bounced from the WCHAs and never even made the NCAAs. When I add it all up, the program since 2005 has performed below expecations in the postseason, despite some otherwise terrific WCHA seasons. Peaking at the right time in the postseason is something that that DU simply hasn't done since 2005.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Injuries are always part of the game. The nine surgeries DU had last year tell you alot, but the bigger picture is also deeply concerning. Bottom line is the last three years DU was seeded high in the NCAAs but got brutally spanked by lower-seeded UW in '08 and Miami in '09 and then got stunned in a close one by lower-seeded RIT in '10. When you get beat three straight times in the first round of the big dance by three lesser teams, there is almost certainly a complacency issue somewhere in there. This is also exacerbated by the two other years (2005-2006 and 2006-2007) when DU had strong teams that got bounced from the WCHAs and never even made the NCAAs. When I add it all up, the program since 2005 has performed below expecations in the postseason, despite some otherwise terrific WCHA seasons. Peaking at the right time in the postseason is something that that DU simply hasn't done since 2005.

Well, then, something needs to be done, doesn't it? The question is, what? Historically (excluding that 20-25 year period when we were in the toilet) the standard for DU hockey has been NC's. MacNaughtons, Broadmoors, Gold Pans and all the rest are nice but what we have always been about is hanging banners. Along with everything else, we gotta fix this.
 
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Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Well, then, something needs to be done, doesn't it? The question is, what? Historically (excluding that 20-25 year period when we were in the toilet) the standard for DU hockey has been NC's. MacNaughtons, Broadmoors, Gold Pans and all the rest are nice but what we have always been about is hanging banners. Along with everything else, we gotta fix this.

We are spoiled aren't we?!:rolleyes:
At least we aren't satisfied by "participation" banners like our friends to the south.":p

USCHO poll voters must have liked what they saw over the weekend. DU moved up to #6, ahead of both tUMD and St. Cloud. This weekend will be a real test with BC in the house.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

We are spoiled aren't we?!:rolleyes:
At least we aren't satisfied by "participation" banners like our friends to the south.":p

USCHO poll voters must have liked what they saw over the weekend. DU moved up to #6, ahead of both tUMD and St. Cloud. This weekend will be a real test with BC in the house.

As Sir Joseph Porter says in "Pinafore," "proper self respect, nothing more." :)
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Question for you Denverites. Do you consider the altitude to be an advantage in games against teams from the east. If so how much?
I would think BC has to be considered the favorite this weekend except for the altitude factor and of course the home rink/crowd.
 
Re: All Things Denver, XXVIII

Personally, I hope DU and Gwoz can work things out. It has taken Gwoz's tenure to get DU back to the stature it enjoyed from the 50s through the 70s. Viz indicated USCHO Poll has DU 6th and the USA Today Poll has come out with DU 8th. I think we saw last weekend that DU has 2 pretty good goalies and that there are a lot of talented players on the team. Should be a good test against BC at home this weekend. I heard next season DU goes back East to play BC and BU on the same weekend.
 
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