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All Things Denver XXIX

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Re: All Things Denver XXIX

MaizeRage said:
What happened with Wrenn?
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Lack of minutes due to never completely healing from hip surgury.

Worst plus/minus on the team by a large margin. 1 assist no goals.

Sad to see him go because he's a quality guy, but DU has six guys ahead of him. DU has two studs coming in next season.
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

dggoddard said:
Lack of minutes due to never completely healing from hip surgury.

Worst plus/minus on the team by a large margin. 1 assist no goals.

Sad to see him go because he's a quality guy, but DU has six guys ahead of him. DU has two studs coming in next season.
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Wait, what? When did this happen? I thought he was or was soon going to be one of our top d-men!!!
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

Dmann said:
Wait, what? When did this happen? I thought he was or was soon going to be one of our top d-men!!!
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DU announced today that William Wrenn has withdrawn from school and joined the Portland Winterhawks of the WHL.

From Gwoz
"William has decided to leave our varsity hockey program and concentrate full-time on his hockey career," Gwozdecky said. "William feels he will have a better opportunity to play on a regular basis and contribute in a more important role at the junior hockey level. He was a good teammate and was well liked in our locker room. William will be missed by our program."
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I wish him well and hopefully he can get his game on track with Portland. He was pretty much injured his whole freshman year and hasn't turned into the elite type of d-man so far that he was projected to be. The only bad thing is that he has given up his chance for a free education from a good school. Good luck to William.
 
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Re: All Things Denver XXIX

This is big mistake for Wrenn...

Like TJ Fast and Keith Seabrook before him, who were also second round pick d-men who bolted from DU (and now toil in the AHL/ECHL), Wrenn is unlikely to see the NHL, either. He was not given a sniff by the USA junior team, he's a minus-7 this year and can't crack the top 6 d-men at DU. He's a second round pick who wants PP time, but he won't see it at DU, either. He's not that good right now.

He's throwing away a $200,000 education for the WHL, and maybe some AHL time after that.

If he was smart, he'd stay at DU, get his degree and then play in AHL with something to fall back on.

Their parents and advisors are overestimating ability....
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

Dmann said:
I thought he was or was soon going to be one of our top d-men!!!
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His injuries have stunted his development. Honestly, if you're a second round pick and you can't crack the top 6 at a D-I school as a sophomore, I can see why he'd want to go somewhere where he can play. That said, his chances of playing in the NHL are pretty low - he's just not fast enough. His education is the big loss here. DU will do fine without him, but he should have stayed in school to get his degree.

For DU, it's the loss of a part-time player and it opens scholarship money for someone else.
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

No coincidence that the three DU guys who jumped to major juniors are defensemen (Seabrook, Fast & Wrenn). Gwoz continues to employ four forwards most of the time on power plays with inconsistent results. Factor in that DU has had major problems in recent seasons scoring five on five and its really hurts the Dmen scoring stats.

DU wins tight low-scoring WCHA games almost every weekend, but its hard for these second round picks to put the team before their stats.
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

dggoddard said:
No coincidence that the three DU guys who jumped to major juniors are defensemen (Seabrook, Fast & Wrenn). Gwoz continues to employ four forwards most of the time on power plays with inconsistent results. Factor in that DU has had major problems in recent seasons scoring five on five and its really hurts the Dmen scoring stats.

DU wins tight low-scoring WCHA games almost every weekend, but its hard for these second round picks to put the team before their stats.
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Yep. Many second rounders are in a middle ground between thinking they should have been first rounders, and actually playing like seventh rounders, with an over-inflated sense of where they stand in the hockey pecking order. They think if they don't get power-play time in college, then they won't develop and be NHL players. So they quit school and go to MJ, get their power-play time, and still don't get a sniff of the NHL. They throw a $200,000 education down the toilet, and spend their hockey careers as minor leaguers. Seabrook is making $65K in the AHL, which isn't terrible, but he won't make that forever. Pretty soon he'll be making $30K in the ECHL like TJ Fast. And when their playing days are over, they'll need to start all over to get their degree and pay for it, or never get one and stay under-employed...Unless you are a sure-fire NHLer (and 95% of college players aren't), you are usually better off staying in school and getting a degree.
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

Puck Swami said:
Yep. Many second rounders are in a middle ground between thinking they should have been first rounders, and actually playing like seventh rounders, with an over-inflated sense of where they stand in the hockey pecking order. They think if they don't get power-play time in college, then they won't develop and be NHL players. So they quit school and go to MJ, get their power-play time, and still don't get a sniff of the NHL. They throw a $200,000 education down the toilet, and spend their hockey careers as minor leaguers. Seabrook is making $65K in the AHL, which isn't terrible, but he won't make that forever. Pretty soon he'll be making $30K in the ECHL like TJ Fast. And when their playing days are over, they'll need to start all over to get their degree and pay for it, or never get one and stay under-employed...Unless you are a sure-fire NHLer (and 95% of college players aren't), you are usually better off staying in school and getting a degree.
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Completely agree. And in addition, the players don't get that NHL teams have minor league rosters to fill. They are like car salesman trying to fill them. Way too many players leave school or don't finish chasing this dream. Even Hobey Baker winners are no lock for the NHL.
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

This really is "the dream that will never die." And from a kid's point of view, just about anyone he could consult has a conflict of interest. And the results are almost always bad. Mid 30's, hockey career over or nearly so, no degree and very few of the kinds of contacts NHL guys use every day to set themselves up for the rest of their lives. Hello night manager at TCBY.

Swami, is DU still in that consortium of big city schools established 20 years ago or so, the purpose of which was for former pro athletes to return to school and finish their degrees? Can't remember the name of the guy who started it. He was a DU grad and at the time at the Center for Sports in Society at Northeastern. IIRC it was for major league guys, not career minor leaguers. Seemed like a noble effort.

Ahh: do the name Richard Lapchick ring a bell? :D
 
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Re: All Things Denver XXIX

There are quite a few ex MLB, NBA & NFL players who have made over $100 million in their careers & still lost all their money within a decade. John Elway, Lenny Dykstra, Scotty Pippen, John Daly, Evander Holyfield & Latrell Sprewell to name just a few.

Figure that taxes take 35% of a pro athletes income and just one divorce will take over 50% of the balance. That doesn't leave a lot left over for a career that might last 10 years if you are lucky. Figure that the first three years of a pro career is spent toiling at rookie minimum salaries.

Most NFL football players are broke within two years of leaving the league. I'd guess that NHL players are probably in a similar situation.
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

Too bad about Wrenn, but he just was not accomplishing much on the ice. He has obvious talent, but he just wasn't playing like a quality NCAA d-man at this point. DU does have three good d-men coming in next year and I was curious as to how Gwoz was going to fit all of them in, especially if Donovan returns. Wrenn hadn't been developing as hoped and scholarships aren't guaranteed for 4 years. I wonder if he was informed that some, if not all, of his money was being taken away? Assuming Donovan comes back (and Makowski, too), DU would have those two plus Ryder, Lee, Phillips and the 3 frosh -- that should be 8 good, quality defensemen which is the number you shoot for. There's a very good possibility that Wrenn would have been 9th on the depth chart.
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

dggoddard said:
There are quite a few ex MLB, NBA & NFL players who have made over $100 million in their careers & still lost all their money within a decade. John Elway, Lenny Dykstra, Scotty Pippen, John Daly, Evander Holyfield & Latrell Sprewell to name just a few.

Figure that taxes take 35% of a pro athletes income and just one divorce will take over 50% of the balance. That doesn't leave a lot left over for a career that might last 10 years if you are lucky. Figure that the first three years of a pro career is spent toiling at rookie minimum salaries.

Most NFL football players are broke within two years of leaving the league. I'd guess that NHL players are probably in a similar situation.
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for sure just ask Bobby Orr about that.
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

dggoddard said:
There are quite a few ex MLB, NBA & NFL players who have made over $100 million in their careers & still lost all their money within a decade. John Elway, Lenny Dykstra, Scotty Pippen, John Daly, Evander Holyfield & Latrell Sprewell to name just a few.

Figure that taxes take 35% of a pro athletes income and just one divorce will take over 50% of the balance. That doesn't leave a lot left over for a career that might last 10 years if you are lucky. Figure that the first three years of a pro career is spent toiling at rookie minimum salaries.

Most NFL football players are broke within two years of leaving the league. I'd guess that NHL players are probably in a similar situation.
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I should really get into the Pro Athlete Financial Advising business.
 
Re: All Things Denver XXIX

Chris said:
Too bad about Wrenn, but he just was not accomplishing much on the ice. He has obvious talent, but he just wasn't playing like a quality NCAA d-man at this point. DU does have three good d-men coming in next year and I was curious as to how Gwoz was going to fit all of them in, especially if Donovan returns. Wrenn hadn't been developing as hoped and scholarships aren't guaranteed for 4 years. I wonder if he was informed that some, if not all, of his money was being taken away?
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Unless a kid has some kind of academic or social issue, DU usually won't take a kid's scholarship money from them. William could have had likely a $200,000 education, no matter what his hockey status would have been. He will likely end up just like Fast and Seabrook - no degree and playing in the minors.
 
Puck Swami said:
Unless a kid has some kind of academic or social issue, DU usually won't take a kid's scholarship money from them. William could have had likely a $200,000 education, no matter what his hockey status would have been. He will likely end up just like Fast and Seabrook - no degree and playing in the minors.
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How do you know? It's been done before and scholarships are not necessarily just a whole or a half. Stud recruits get the whole ones, but the rest are divided up in a creative way as to maximize the roster with at least a few decent backups and if it needs to be tweaked from year to year, then that is done. That is how it has been done for quite some time.
 
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