5 dollar gas...are we ready?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

You want to use the Sun to create oil?

Algae.

 

[unh_hockey]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

You want to use the Sun to create oil?

Algae.

as far as I recall, with current technology its still an energy intensive process. However, this is permittable if we don't mind exchanging one for another - electric produced from Nat gas or nuke.

Think of our days as the 'glory days', when oil was cheap and everyone could buy it. This will NOT be the case someday. We will be the envy of future generations as one could argue that we will have had it the best..

 

[aparch]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

It must be getting closer to election day. Gas prices have fallen $0.40. (or more) in the last two/three weeks and are continuing to fall. 3.50 in some Chicagoland suburbs.

Or are the refineries just dumping their "summer blend"?

 

[Almington]

It must be getting closer to election day. Gas prices have fallen $0.40. (or more) in the last two/three weeks and are continuing to fall. 3.50 in some Chicagoland suburbs.

Or are the refineries just dumping their "summer blend"?

I think that the upper Midwest refineries are now switching over to the cheaper winter blend. With the shorter days less need for all of the anti-ozone measures in the Chicago area.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

One of the asssumptions you make that I wonder about is that you assume energy use per capita will remain at current levels or increase.

FF, I agree with everything else you said, but on this one sentence, I am actually assuming just the opposite. If we don't find a non-solar based alternative energy source, per capita energy use will *massively* decline. Over the next 50 years, population will double and we'll simultaneously run out of oil, so total energy production will be falling (absent a new source) even as population is increasing. The end result is a civilization which (due to constraints beyond its control) consumes very little energy per person - and looks very little like the US at the beginning of the 21st century. The biggest differences will be in the area of transportation, of course - people will be forced to live much closer to their places of work and shopping, and city-to-city and country-to-country travel will become the province of the super wealthy. Transportation costs of goods will become more expensive than the goods, so it will be cheaper to use products from local merchants than to ship from overseas. International trade will decline, and the world will move toward becoming a series of relatively isolated city-states which can tele-communicate but have relatively little physical interaction with each other.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

It must be getting closer to election day. Gas prices have fallen $0.40. (or more) in the last two/three weeks and are continuing to fall. 3.50 in some Chicagoland suburbs.

Or are the refineries just dumping their "summer blend"?

i left MA on thursday and filled up on the way to the airport at $3.98.... and when i landed in OH it was $3.43!!!!!!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

i left MA on thursday and filled up on the way to the airport at $3.98.... and when i landed in OH it was $3.43!!!!!!

They get WTI shipped. The east coast gets Brent.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

They get WTI shipped. The east coast gets Brent.

well Hoven is overpriced!!!

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

well Hoven is overpriced!!!

I wouldn't know; I don't swing that way.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

It must be getting closer to election day. Gas prices have fallen $0.40. (or more) in the last two/three weeks and are continuing to fall. 3.50 in some Chicagoland suburbs.

Or are the refineries just dumping their "summer blend"?

Filled up for $3.24 yesterday in Lansing. Granted it was at a Sam's Club station there, but still, dang cheap compared to what we was paying a few weeks earlier here.

 

[The Rube]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

well Hoven is overpriced!!!

I'm all quality, baby!

That being said, MN prices where I am dropped about 20 cents between Wed and today.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Brits creating gasoline from thin air.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Brits creating gasoline from thin air.

rihanna's nipples!!!! nice!!!

thanks

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Uh-huh. And your degree in solar energy came from where?

I think it means "useful energy out divided by total energy in." Pretty standard definition, and it has nothing to do with cost or any of the other gobbledegook you're trying to use to paper over the basic physics.

That's pretty much my primary point, and my secondary point is that of all the factors, collector efficiency is a relatively unimportant one. Even if we had 100% efficient collectors, we'd still be a long way from being able to use solar energy for all of our energy needs. Achieving 30% or 50% or any other efficiency target does not solve the fundamental problem with solar energy: the sheer amount of land area that must be devoted to energy collection.

80% of the US population lives in urban/suburban areas. Diffuse energy source + dense population = fundamental mismatch. Solar will have just as many transmission problems as our current electrical grid. Also, you're still focused entirely on the electricity market. A suburban house may have enough roof area for most/all of the household's electricity needs, but what about its transportation needs?

I fail to see how this chart (http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/pdf/sec17_5.pdf) demonstrates that solar will be able to replace those huge mountains of fossil fuels. Don't forget that this discussion/thread is about gasoline prices. Where's the link on this chart between renewables and transportation? Oh, wait, I found it: "4%".

And on http://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/annual/pdf/sec2_5.pdf, did you happen to notice that chart in the lower right?

I can summarize that in one sentence: "Wow, the sun sure puts out a lot of energy." So what? There's a ton of iron ore on Mars, too, but we can't use that either. This study did nothing to address the real barriers to solar energy becoming a viable replacement for fossil fuels.

le sigh. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

So I was looking on gasbuddy this morning, and I found that they're STILL talking about the Keystone XL pipeline. Maybe it's just me, but a pipeline from Canada to Texas just sounds like a bad idea. Why not build a new refinery in Montana or one of the Dakota states?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

So I was looking on gasbuddy this morning, and I found that they're STILL talking about the Keystone XL pipeline. Maybe it's just me, but a pipeline from Canada to Texas just sounds like a bad idea. Why not build a new refinery in Montana or one of the Dakota states?

It's much cheaper to send crude from Canada to Texas than it is to build a refinery in Montana or either of the Dakotas and then truck or barge the refined product to where it will be used. That's why you find refineries near population centers. If the Keystone XL is truly DOA, you could probably make a case for routing the pipeline to the Minneapolis-St. Paul area as we already have two refineries, but not the Dakotas. Maybe Washington or Oregon has capacity to use the oil.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

It's much cheaper to send crude from Canada to Texas than it is to build a refinery in Montana or either of the Dakotas and then truck or barge the refined product to where it will be used. That's why you find refineries near population centers. If the Keystone XL is truly DOA, you could probably make a case for routing the pipeline to the Minneapolis-St. Paul area as we already have two refineries, but not the Dakotas. Maybe Washington or Oregon has capacity to use the oil.

You're forgetting one other thing, though: refineries typically pipeline the refined product to other places. For example, this area has a direct pipeline from the Philadelphia refinery, which is why we get some of the cheaper gas prices in the state.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

So I was looking on gasbuddy this morning, and I found that they're STILL talking about the Keystone XL pipeline. Maybe it's just me, but a pipeline from Canada to Texas just sounds like a bad idea. Why not build a new refinery in Montana or one of the Dakota states?

Sounds like the defnition of a political football.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: 5 dollar gas...are we ready?

Sounds like the defnition of a political football.

What today isn't?

Too bad I haven't seen any further news on the Hyperion refinery not too far from Sioux City (building it in SD). This is one of the (future) refineries where my previous recommendation was citing. Darn eco-terrorists known as the EPA...

 

[hockeyplayer1015]

It's much cheaper to send crude from Canada to Texas than it is to build a refinery in Montana or either of the Dakotas and then truck or barge the refined product to where it will be used. That's why you find refineries near population centers. If the Keystone XL is truly DOA, you could probably make a case for routing the pipeline to the Minneapolis-St. Paul area as we already have two refineries, but not the Dakotas. Maybe Washington or Oregon has capacity to use the oil.

Except you can't even use barge as an option in Montana or the Dakotas. Farthest north that we go would be MSP area.

The best option if you're looking to use commercial marine traffic to transport would be to build/utilize more US flag tankers and use the great lakes/St. Lawrence and ship it out to the Atlantic and south. As of now, virtually all tanker traffic on the lakes is foreign flagged, with the exception of a few Canadian flagged vessels.