2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

And there is the trouble - engineers and scientists should be running manufacturing corporations, not bean counters or liberal arts majors.

Wrong.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

In any case, the people running big corporations today are politicians. Their resumes may say "PhD" or "MBA," but their job skills are political -- grab and grin, speak platitude to power, use and be useful. That's why it isn't that ridiculous when CEOs move from, say, car companies to toiletries. They don't need to know anything about the science or production of their products, they just have to be trusted by the people that they lie to -- the same skill that makes pols succeed.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

In any case, the people running big corporations today are politicians. Their resumes may say "PhD" or "MBA," but their job skills are political -- grab and grin, speak platitude to power, use and be useful. That's why it isn't that ridiculous when CEOs move from, say, car companies to toiletries. They don't need to know anything about the science or production of their products, they just have to be trusted by the people that they lie to -- the same skill that makes pols succeed.

Correct. Who knew years ago when you played Dungeons and Dragons that in real life the Charisma score was the most important?

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Correct. Who knew years ago when you played Dungeons and Dragons that in real life the Charisma score was the most important?

Charisma?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Charisma?

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to turn undead. Every creature has a Charisma score.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Charisma

 

[joecct]

Wrong.

Right - see Chrysler in the 60's. Once known for how well their cars were made and designed; The minute the marketing people started making decisions, spin crash burn.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Right - see Chrysler in the 60's. Once known for how well their cars were made and designed; The minute the marketing people started making decisions, spin crash burn.

Irrelevant in today's lawyer/stock price based world.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Not sure if joking. Are you really not aware that GS majors are getting hired by Big Corporate as HR troubleshooters and legal advisors at salaries that would give science and tech grads a boner?

American Studies majors -- poor and struggling.

Gender Studies majors -- hand-wringing all the way to the bank, and on their way to running P&G.

I'm curious - is this anecdotal and individual, or aggregate and reported? Or, what are the comparative placement rates and average starting salaries, if known? (I know lawyers and psychologists have been in trouble, job market-wise, but not sure about HR people etc.)

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

I'm curious - is this anecdotal and individual, or aggregate and reported? Or, what are the comparative placement rates and average starting salaries, if known? (I know lawyers and psychologists have been in trouble, job market-wise, but not sure about HR people etc.)

Only the ones with low Charisma scores are in trouble.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Only the ones with low Charisma scores are in trouble.

Shoot, that would be me then. Should've learned physics.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

I'm curious - is this anecdotal and individual, or aggregate and reported? Or, what are the comparative placement rates and average starting salaries, if known? (I know lawyers and psychologists have been in trouble, job market-wise, but not sure about HR people etc.)

It's pure anecdotal, and it actually started out as a kind of a joke. Point is that if you want to go for a poverty-inducing major "Gender Studies" is a bad choice, especially when you can always pick on good old "English."

 

[geezer]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

you can always pick on good old "English."

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

It's pure anecdotal, and it actually started out as a kind of a joke. Point is that if you want to go for a poverty-inducing major "Gender Studies" is a bad choice, especially when you can always pick on good old "English."

There are plenty of fields where English majors can excel, they just don't happen to appeal to most English majors. The real problem majors are the philosophy and psychology students. Psychology isn't worth a thing unless you're getting a master's or PhD; philophy majors are just worthless no matter what.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

There are plenty of fields where English majors can excel, they just don't happen to appeal to most English majors. The real problem majors are the philosophy and psychology students. Psychology isn't worth a thing unless you're getting a master's or PhD; philophy majors are just worthless no matter what.

Only to the degree that education is animal training. If you view education as gaining concrete trade skills such as programming or roofing or recombining DNA, then you are correct. If you view education as allowing the deepest intellectual development within the broadest possible abstract intellectual experiences, then studies like philosophy, literature and music are still and likely always will be the top of the food chain (theology was once right up there too). I don't necessarily mean university studies, because universities have been on the path to being wholly-owned subsidiaries of business for generations and at this point are basically factories turning out production units: the little that's left of the Humanities mostly prepares one to be a member of... a Humanities faculty.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Only to the degree that education is animal training. If you view education as gaining concrete trade skills such as programming or roofing or recombining DNA, then you are correct. If you view education as allowing the deepest intellectual development within the broadest possible abstract intellectual experiences, then studies like philosophy, literature and music are still and likely always will be the top of the food chain (theology was once right up there too). I don't necessarily mean university studies, because universities have been on the path to being wholly-owned subsidiaries of business for generations and at this point are basically factories turning out production units: the little that's left of the Humanities mostly prepares one to be a member of... a Humanities faculty.

The good old days are gone.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

The good old days are gone.

Kind of. There was a brief period when you could get that type of education at an American university (say, 1890-1950), but before and since it's been the path of the autodidact. And my god it's cheap, and now with Kindles you don't even throw your back out. The Five Foot Shelf fits on one device and if you hunt around you can probably buy its entire contents for under $25. We can all be Federico da Montefeltro now.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Only to the degree that education is animal training. If you view education as gaining concrete trade skills such as programming or roofing or recombining DNA, then you are correct. If you view education as allowing the deepest intellectual development within the broadest possible abstract intellectual experiences, then studies like philosophy, literature and music are still and likely always will be the top of the food chain (theology was once right up there too). I don't necessarily mean university studies, because universities have been on the path to being wholly-owned subsidiaries of business for generations and at this point are basically factories turning out production units: the little that's left of the Humanities mostly prepares one to be a member of... a Humanities faculty.

I do tend to think of things from more of a utilitarian perspective, and would allow certain educational paths for the simply pleasure of the education itself. However, philosphy majors are just in it to amuse themselves. They gleefully twist logic into such unrecognizable webs that they actually have some students (small percentage, but still that's some) pushing Solopsism as a viable way to look at the world.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

I do tend to think of things from more of a utilitarian perspective, and would allow certain educational paths for the simply pleasure of the education itself. However, philosphy majors are just in it to amuse themselves. They gleefully twist logic into such unrecognizable webs that they actually have some students (small percentage, but still that's some) pushing Solopsism as a viable way to look at the world.

This is the cartoon view of philosophy. Believe me, there are MANY trained (and amateur) philosophers who are sincere, non-solipsistic, and extremely critical of sophistry. The cartoon view of philosophers as navel-gazing spinners of pointless intellectual cobwebs is as false as the cartoon view of scientists as absent-minded and socially awkward. And equally as old for generating laughs: they both come straight outta Aristophanes.

Educating for a trade, whether it's pipe fitting or the law, is honorable and effective. Educating for "the liberal arts" is equally so. They aim at different targets. Just as the economic model of the 19th century led to a social prejudice in favor of the latter, now the current economic model leads to a social prejudice in favor of the former. Not to mention that although they are separate activities there is no reason to assume a person can't be proficient in both. William Carlos Williams was a pediatrician and a poet. Having a trade skill does not extinguish one's chance to be well-educated, nor vice-versa.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Wrong.

Wrong

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2nd Term Part VIII - The Thin Red Line

Today in Republicanism, Chris Christie steps in it.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/chr...n-so-they-control-voting-mechanisms-1.1113989

I also hear he's sick of hearing about the minimum wage. Good for him.