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2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

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Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Rover said:
Hey just gimme the word the next time you're in Mass and I'll be happy to assist in your crucifixion. I'll even bring my own nails!!! :D
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That must be some Mass you attend if they conduct crucifictions there! :p
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Bob Gray said:
But, there are many ways to stifle speech without directly attacking freedom of speech. But, so few people really are willing to hear from and respect opposing viewpoints in this country anymore, that it's becoming routine to intimidate people into not speaking out. Over time as it worsens, it will have much the same effect as directly attacking freedom of speech. To think otherwise is to either be naive, or to not really value true full freedom of speech for others, especially those who have differing viewpoints.
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There is merit to your point. Being exposed to a diversity of viewpoints makes us great. We should allow many viewpoints. And I think we do. But that doesn't mean that we should be restricted in our reaction to them.

Problem is...if I'm A&E and can't take action on my employee, what happens to my rights? Suddenly any of my employees can say or do anything they want but I have no control over them.

Other problem is...if you limit others' ability to criticize Phil's extremist views, what happens to their freedom of expression? Suddenly its arbitrary as to who gets freedom of speech...the first guy to speak out or those who rebut his opinion.

So you can't enforce protection of Phil's ideas. At A&E, its an open marketplace for employees...and Phil lost. In society, its an open marketplace for ideas...and Phil lost.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

5mn_Major said:
There is merit to your point. Being exposed to a diversity of viewpoints makes us great. We should allow many viewpoints. And I think we do. But that doesn't mean that we should be restricted in our reaction to them.

Problem is...if I'm A&E and can't take action on my employee, what happens to my rights? Suddenly any of my employees can say or do anything they want but I have no control over them.

Other problem is...if you limit others' ability to criticize Phil's extremist views, what happens to their freedom of expression? Suddenly its arbitrary as to who gets freedom of speech...the first guy to speak out or those who rebut his opinion.

So you can't enforce protection of Phil's ideas. At A&E, its an open marketplace for employees...and Phil lost. In society, its an open marketplace for ideas...and Phil lost.
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Well said. It is a tricky balancing act to respect others views, allow everyone to express their views and their thoughts on others views, and not have hostile actions taken against people for their views. The last one is where things go over the line. People don't just disagree with Phil, which is fine and I fully support those who don't like what Phil said to express their differing views. But they go beyond that and pressure A&E to suspend him, attempting to suppress his views. Really, A&E come off as idiots. Anyone who remotely knows what Duck Dynasty is about knows Phil says stuff like this, is very blunt, and tact is not his strong suit. All the sudden uproar is simply people being drama queens. Phil is no different than he was a year or two ago and likely he'll be the same and say the same things a year or two from now if asked the same questions.

Kinda like the people in California who lost jobs for supporting the Prop defining marriage there, or Craig James, who was fired by Fox for supporting the traditional view of marriage (not during his work for Fox, but well before, when pursuing a political position) (on a side not, so much for Fox being a conservative bastion!).
 
Gurtholfin said:
No, it was all true. Again, "freedom of speech" only protects you from the government.
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Point of information? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if another private citizen infringes on your ability to express your views (e.g. preventing a legal protest from occurring, destroying campaign posters, etc) isn't there a potential tort for a civil rights violation? If that is the case, then the government (in the form of a civil judge) will/can proscribe some extreme interactions between private citizens on the basis of freedom of speech.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

LynahFan said:
Point of information? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if another private citizen infringes on your ability to express your views (e.g. preventing a legal protest from occurring, destroying campaign posters, etc) isn't there a potential tort for a civil rights violation? If that is the case, then the government (in the form of a civil judge) will/can proscribe some extreme interactions between private citizens on the basis of freedom of speech.
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From what I know...civil rights and violations are completely separate from freedom of speech/expression. Civil rights protection is law. But freedom of speech trumps civil rights protection when both apply. Damaging of property is another story...and is not tied to freedom of speech. Even in the case of a riot, riot police stop the riot but still do allow any sort of freedom of speech.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

LynahFan said:
Point of information? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if another private citizen infringes on your ability to express your views (e.g. preventing a legal protest from occurring, destroying campaign posters, etc) isn't there a potential tort for a civil rights violation? If that is the case, then the government (in the form of a civil judge) will/can proscribe some extreme interactions between private citizens on the basis of freedom of speech.
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I was speaking to the way that Bob was interpreting freedom of speech.

If someone doesn't like what Phil has to say and shoves a duck call up his arse to get him to stop talking, then yes, you'd have a point although the shoving would probably fall under theft and assault - just like the forcible destruction of campaign items or the prevention of a legal protest. Not sure the shover would be prosecuted on freedom of speech grounds.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Bob Gray said:
Funny how liberals love diversity, except when it's different than them, speech being a good example.

Bottom line is you really don't value freedom of speech very much, except that which matches your beliefs and views.
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You're still struggling with what "freedom of speech" actually means.

That's okay, you seem to struggle with a number of intellectual and heady concepts.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Gurtholfin said:
You're still struggling with what "freedom of speech" actually means.

That's okay, you seem to struggle with a number of intellectual and heady concepts.
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And you again don't grasp that I'm discussing several different aspects of it. You keep purposely ignoring part of what I'm saying. :rolleyes:
 
Bob Gray said:
And you again don't grasp that I'm discussing several different aspects of it. You keep purposely ignoring part of what I'm saying. :rolleyes:
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You're saying society should give equal weight to moon landing deniers and sovereign citizens as we do NASA scientists and people who aren't bat shiat crazy. Because we're indirectly violating their freedoms of speech by not listening to them and calling them bat shiat crazy.

Of course, there is irony in taking that position given your penchant for putting people on ignore for pointing out your absurd positions.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Bob Gray said:
And you again don't grasp that I'm discussing several different aspects of it. You keep purposely ignoring part of what I'm saying. :rolleyes:
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Which part?

Let's say there's a new show, let's call it Latte Legion, based around a chain of coffee shops in the New York metro area and let's say the show becomes a nationwide hit as instead of a fascination with rednecks & hillbillies, the country is suddenly gushing over liberal drinkers of made to order coffee drinks. It's on A & E and you can find the merchandise in drug stores, gas stations and malls from sea to sea.

The star gives an interview to GQ and is asked about his religion and states that "You gotta be careful with religion as Christianity leads to raping boys."


If that happened, I would fully understand the uproar from Christians and I myself (who does not practice) would judge the star an idiot. I certainly wouldn't say that the star and the show should be shielded from public backlash based upon freedom of speech.

No... I wouldn't protest A & E or send them a letter, but I didn't for the Duck Dip****'s comments either. I would however fully support others' rights to do so.

You see, saying that "You gotta be careful with religion as Christianity leads to raping boys." or "Homosexuality leads to bestiality." are really the same thing and neither is protected from public scorn in any way by "freedom of speech."
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

And I'll say again, nice heroes you conservatives have! Just keep in mind inappropriate contact with 15 year olds will get you a jail sentence in most civilized states (as in not Kentucky or other conservative bastions). Come to think of it, has anybody seen Opie or Fishy lately? :eek: ;)
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Bob Gray said:
And you again don't grasp that I'm discussing several different aspects of it. You keep purposely ignoring part of what I'm saying. :rolleyes:
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What "aspects?" What "its?" What "part" of what you are saying?

It appears that Gurth is spot-on, Bob, and that you simply refuse to come out from behind the cover of your vague platitudes. I think we all probably believe from our experience here that you are a good and decent person. But you continue to say nothing then roll your eyes play the "misunderstood" card when others ask for something of substance.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Rover said:
And I'll say again, nice heroes you conservatives have! Just keep in mind inappropriate contact with 15 year olds will get you a jail sentence in most civilized states (as in not Kentucky or other conservative bastions). Come to think of it, has anybody seen Opie or Fishy lately? :eek: ;)
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Rover: Chilling free speech everywhere. :)
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

burd said:
What "aspects?" What "its?" What "part" of what you are saying?

It appears that Gurth is spot-on, Bob, and that you simply refuse to come out from behind the cover of your vague platitudes. I think we all probably believe from our experience here that you are a good and decent person. But you continue to say nothing then roll your eyes play the "misunderstood" card when others ask for something of substance.
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Read my past posts. I'm tired of saying it over and over again. :mad:

Free speech can be chilled without the government doing it. Not a rocket science concept, or at least I thought so. Gurth keeps trotting out a red herring that I already said I agree with, but continues to ignore the rest of my point. Sheesh!
 
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Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Bob Gray said:
Free speech can be chilled without the government doing it.
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Call it a societal filter.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over someone getting their view on the connection between homosexuality and bestiality stifled.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

And what a shock, Faux "News" covers itself in glory covering the story.

“Atheists unveil Satan statue for OK capitol: smiling kids with goat-faced demon!” tweets host Gretchen Carlson. I would explain to her that Atheists and Satanists are not the same, but I think she already knows that. She made that 'mistake' on purpose.
 
Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Priceless said:
And what a shock, Faux "News" covers itself in glory covering the story.

“Atheists unveil Satan statue for OK capitol: smiling kids with goat-faced demon!” tweets host Gretchen Carlson. I would explain to her that Atheists and Satanists are not the same, but I think she already knows that. She made that 'mistake' on purpose.
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I would bet you're right. No brownie points lost there for inaccuracy... and neither she nor Fox care if there's a bit more confusion between the two than there already is.
 
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