2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

[SJHovey]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

It's clear you don't see my point and need your sarcasm detector checked for errors. Obviously the first amendment has nothing to do with this.

There is no relevant difference between this guy being fired by some gun nut magazine and the duck dynasty guy being fired by A&E. Yet the right wing media chorus got the latter his job back and is strangely silent on the former.

And my point was if you want to argue the Duck Dynasty guy should get his job back, because you happen to agree with those views, does that require you to argue everyone should get their job back, even those you don't agree with? Again, since when? Trust me, there are more than enough people who agree with the Guns and Ammo guy's views who can come to his "first amendment" defense, or object to him losing his job.

 

[unofan]

You mean force the Vikings to rehire him? He's spoken out freely, very freely. The fact that he hasn't caught on with anyone else speaks volumes.

Yeah, that he's a punter who was making a veteran's salary that was easily replaced by a rookie.

That said, having worked in athletics and been in numerous locker rooms, i can easily believe his special teams coach said what he allegedly said too. He might have been let go anyway, but I'm sure his political stances were a factor against him when the decision was made.

 

[unofan]

And my point was if you want to argue the Duck Dynasty guy should get his job back, because you happen to agree with those views, does that require you to argue everyone should get their job back, even those you don't agree with?

When your argument is ostensibly based on the first amendment, yes. Otherwise it looks like you only care about rights for thee but not for me, to borrow a phrase.

The duck dynasty argument was that a&e violated his freedom of speech rights by firing him. That was it. They may have thrown some political correctness labels around too, but that's besides the point. If they are so upset about a gross violation of first amendment rights, they should be equally upset about this equally bad violation of first amendment rights.

Color me shocked that they're not.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

And the situation differs from Duck Dynasty because....?

The viewers of pro football didn't strongly back Kluwe like the viewers of Duck Dynasty supported Robertson. Let the market decide.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

And the situation differs from Duck Dynasty because....?

You are worried about this situation, but not the Duck Dynasty situation. That's certainly one difference.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

The viewers of pro football didn't strongly back Kluwe like the viewers of Duck Dynasty supported Robertson. Let the market decide.

The guy was a high priced veteran on a rebuilding team that could get the same results from a punter who would cost a lot less. No one else hired Kluwe either and he's bitter. End of story unless something else comes out.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Ya know Bob, sometimes its okay to admit when Sarah Palin, etc are being hypocrites.

I didn't realize she was required to weigh in on every free speech situation. She picks her spots, as every else, including you do. To think otherwise would be . . . . hypocritical, which I'm sure you would not be.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

When your argument is ostensibly based on the first amendment, yes. Otherwise it looks like you only care about rights for thee but not for me, to borrow a phrase.

The duck dynasty argument was that a&e violated his freedom of speech rights by firing him. That was it. They may have thrown some political correctness labels around too, but that's besides the point. If they are so upset about a gross violation of first amendment rights, they should be equally upset about this equally bad violation of first amendment rights.

Color me shocked that they're not.

So then Kluwe, in his book and all his interviews, should have expressed his outrage on behalf of anyone who ever was shouted down, fired, voted out of office or otherwise punished or abused for opposing gay marriage? I must have missed that interview. In fact, why isn't he on this site right now pummeling you and Priceless and the rest for abusing Bob Gray. Or did Kluwe just decide to punt?

 

[Craig P.]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Yet the right wing media chorus got the latter his job back

Correlation /= causation.

The cynic would operate on the assumption that A&E planned to reinstate him all along, especially considering that his "suspension" conveniently coincided with a period where they weren't actually filming anything.

 

[Rimbaud]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

Invent, create, whatever. He did neither for the internet. I can't believe some people still believe this. Or maybe this is one of those Bill Clinton type parsing of words thing where you torture a word enough and it tells you whatever you want.

But the objective fact remains that he did, and he's been given credit for helping create the internet by people that invented some of the technology for it.

I'll trust their words over someone that would disagree with Gore if he said the sun rises in the east.

 

[unofan]

Correlation /= causation.

The cynic would operate on the assumption that A&E planned to reinstate him all along, especially considering that his "suspension" conveniently coincided with a period where they weren't actually filming anything.

There is always that possibility, too.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

1. In both cases, neither duck dynasty nor guns and ammo guy statements have anything to do with the first amendment. Either can say what they want and did.

2. As an employer I'm not forced to retain someone who does whatever they want or says whatever they want to my customers. The right seems to forget #1 and/or 2 all the time.

3. The difference is that duck dynasty dude pushed for offensive, extremist views to the point of breaking the law...while the guns and ammo guy suggested moderation should be considered. This is where the difference is...not the 2 above points like the right seems to believe.

 

[unofan]

So then Kluwe, in his book and all his interviews, should have expressed his outrage on behalf of anyone who ever was shouted down, fired, voted out of office or otherwise punished or abused for opposing gay marriage? I must have missed that interview. In fact, why isn't he on this site right now pummeling you and Priceless and the rest for abusing Bob Gray. Or did Kluwe just decide to punt?

The difference there, of course, is what happens on this board is not newsworthy. The guns guy is pretty well known - this is at least the second if not third story I've seen from fark.com on it, and there's been stories in the NYT and on Fox News about it.

 

[walrus]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

3. The difference is that duck dynasty dude pushed for offensive, extremist views to the point of breaking the law...while the guns and ammo guy suggested moderation should be considered. This is where the difference is...not the 2 above points like the right seems to believe.

I must have missed where the Duck Dynasty dude broke the law? What law did he break?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

But the objective fact remains that he did, and he's been given credit for helping create the internet by people that invented some of the technology for it.

I'll trust their words over someone that would disagree with Gore if he said the sun rises in the east.

Hey, believe what you want. Was Gore a bit player in it coming about? Yes. Did he invent/create it? No. The internet isn't like a new type of widget where someone could claim to invent/create it. Really I don't know of anyone who can clearly claim the mantle of inventor/creator of the internet, though I think there's a variety of folks that would be ahead of Al Gore in line.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

I must have missed where the Duck Dynasty dude broke the law? What law did he break?

They just don't accept that anyone doesn't share their views, so they attack and stifle any speech that they don't approve of. Not a direct attack on free speech, but nevertheless a very dangerous indirect attack on free speech. They are saying you have free speech, but if you exercise it, we will hound you and intimidate you and marginalize you. Most of these folks wouldn't understand free speech if it landed on their head.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

I must have missed where the Duck Dynasty dude broke the law? What law did he break?

Didn't say that he did. Marrying a 15 yo is illegal in most circumstances and unethical in few others that remain.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

The difference there, of course, is what happens on this board is not newsworthy. The guns guy is pretty well known - this is at least the second if not third story I've seen from fark.com on it, and there's been stories in the NYT and on Fox News about it.

The Duck Dynasty story was all over the news. Did Kluwe comment on that?

 

[walrus]

Didn't say that he did. Marrying a 15 yo is illegal in most circumstances and unethical in few others that remain.

He married a 15 yr old? How old was he?

 

[burd]

Re: 2nd Term Part VII: You May Like Your Doctor But You Can't Keep Her

They just don't accept that anyone doesn't share their views, so they attack and stifle any speech that they don't approve of. Not a direct attack on free speech, but nevertheless a very dangerous indirect attack on free speech. They are saying you have free speech, but if you exercise it, we will hound you and intimidate you and marginalize you. Most of these folks wouldn't understand free speech if it landed on their head.

Playing the victim so much is not becoming of you or of any of us, Bob. Vague references to "you" and "they" and rights that are infringed upon or marginalized without specifics will not cut it. Who exactly has infringed upon Bob Gray's right to speak or or assemble and by what act?