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2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

  • Thread starter Thread starter Priceless
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Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Bob Gray said:
Cash for Clunkers was one of the worst programs to come along in a long time. What a waste!
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Priceless said:
...said Brietbart.
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It's true, the program was a failure. The politicians setting it up didn't think about how consumers would use the rebate system. Essentially, once the program was announced, the already depressed new car market sank even lower until it was time for the rebate program to go into effect. At that time there was an absolute crush of people in the dealerships buying cars. Then after the rebate money ran out, so did car sales. The market sank back into the doldrums. Basically, people who were already in the market for a car timed their purchases for the event. Sure, there were a few people on the margins who made purchases, but it wasn't anywhere near enough people to make a true difference to the overall health of the new car market.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

LynahFan said:
Actually, the new car had to be rated greater than 22 MPG combined, but that's still less than the CAFE standards, so Cash for Clunkers was not a driving force for affecting new vehicle design. Additionally, it was a one-time program much shorter in duration than the design cycle for a new car, so the auto makers wouldn't have had time to react to it. I really doubt that it had much effect on the types of cars the automakers decided to design at the time or since.
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I missed much of the conversation, and apparently a key point. I did not mean to say that Cash for Clunkers drove innovation or MPG ratings, only that people were trading in cars with old fuel economy standards for cars with newer, higher standards. And there was a clause in the program stating that you had to purchase a vehicle with at least at 20% increase in fuel economy.

What happened a lot here in MN was that people with a pickup truck were trading in their trucks for newer ones. They qualified for the credits because the newer models hadimproved their fuel ratings by more than 30%. The local news stations made a point of talking up this little factoid during the event.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

St. Clown said:
I missed much of the conversation, and apparently a key point. I did not mean to say that Cash for Clunkers drove innovation or MPG ratings, only that people were trading in cars with old fuel economy standards for cars with newer, higher standards. And there was a clause in the program stating that you had to purchase a vehicle with at least at 20% increase in fuel economy.

What happened a lot here in MN was that people with a pickup truck were trading in their trucks for newer ones. They qualified for the credits because the newer models hadimproved their fuel ratings by more than 30%. The local news stations made a point of talking up this little factoid during the event.
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But that used truck, which may have been sold to somebody who needed an affordable used truck got removed from the marketplace forcing the consumer to buy in a limited supply market.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

joecct said:
But that used truck, which may have been sold to somebody who needed an affordable used truck got removed from the marketplace forcing the consumer to buy in a limited supply market.
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Yeah, I know, the program was a real boondoggle for poor people. The used car market saw a huge spike in prices because of Cash for Clunkers. It wasn't until the last year or so that prices and inventories started to normalize.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

St. Clown said:
It's true, the program was a failure. The politicians setting it up didn't think about how consumers would use the rebate system. Essentially, once the program was announced, the already depressed new car market sank even lower until it was time for the rebate program to go into effect. At that time there was an absolute crush of people in the dealerships buying cars. Then after the rebate money ran out, so did car sales. The market sank back into the doldrums. Basically, people who were already in the market for a car timed their purchases for the event. Sure, there were a few people on the margins who made purchases, but it wasn't anywhere near enough people to make a true difference to the overall health of the new car market.
Click to expand...

It also left a lot of people who couldn't afford new cars without good used cars/trucks to purchase, leaving them with foot-power or still driving the real clunkers.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

SteveP said:
It also left a lot of people who couldn't afford new cars without good used cars/trucks to purchase, leaving them with foot-power or still driving the real clunkers.
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A bit of ironic legislation went into the law, I thought, in that in order to use the Cash for Clunkers rebate, your car couldn't be older than 1983(?) model year. So people who were driving around those rusted out boats from the 70's were immediately ineligible.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

LynahFan said:
Actually, the new car had to be rated greater than 22 MPG combined, but that's still less than the CAFE standards, so Cash for Clunkers was not a driving force for affecting new vehicle design. Additionally, it was a one-time program much shorter in duration than the design cycle for a new car, so the auto makers wouldn't have had time to react to it. I really doubt that it had much effect on the types of cars the automakers decided to design at the time or since.
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It was a gimmick. Simply a government manipulation of demand.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Rover said:
Wow, somebody threw a Caveman Convention but forgot to tell the rest of us! But, in the interests of educating the uneducated, lets take 'em one at a time...

1) Handy as leader of Rover Nation I will take a small share of credit for the Democrats success, but we prefer to remain behind the scenes. ;) However, we will continue to push for the widespread adoption of Rovernomics to guide the economy.

2) I'm always interested in the "lets drill on public lands" bleating out of the right. Why? Wouldn't we get a better impact from fracking/drilling on private land, where the property owner, local municipality, and state will all get some tax benefit, as opposed to drilling in the Grand Canyon where only the feds will get some royalties? For people who subscribe to trickle down economics, that's a bit of an odd posture. When private drilling has all been exploited, then sure take a look at public lands. In the meantime, no thanks.

3) Lastly, there's the assertion out of our knuckledragger friends that the O has nothing, NOTHING I SAY, to do with increased US energy independence. This despite the fact that a good part of our reduction in oil demand is due to cars getting better gas mileage.....something mandated by....that's right, the Obama administration! Furthermore, if he wanted to shut down fracking on evironmental grounds I'm sure he could have by now. So, lets stop whining and give the man credit where credit is due people. :D
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Next thing you know you'll be giving this cheap suit from Chicago credit for inventing Rice Krispies.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Bob Gray said:
It's actually a pretty widely held view, but hey, if you want to fixate on Brietbart, have at it. But, I know a lot of folks like the government to just hand out money, so to them it would be considered a roaring success.
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They handed out way way way way way way way way way more money to the big banks after the crash of '08. And they're handing the big banks way way way way way way way more money now.

But, let's fixate on one semi-horrible stimulus plan.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Rover said:
I don't think you're ever going to see an easing of fuel efficiency standards. The notion that cars should be advancing in this area is pretty universal. Yes, there will be some old dinosaurs who want to go back to leaded gasoline, just like some people want to disable their airbags and drive around with no muffler (I think Al Bundy did something like this in one episode) but they will be laughed out of politics. Bringing back big gas guzzling cars to the level they had in the 1970's is akin to bringing back smoking to its level of influence 40 years ago. Except in small pockets, it ain't happening.
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People just like you said the same thing in 1980. Then the Canadian oil boom happened. Not saying I'm ruling out what you're saying; we simply don't have enough information to rule anything out. Meanwhile, I'll continue to collect the royalties.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

ScoobyDoo said:
They handed out way way way way way way way way way more money to the big banks after the crash of '08. And they're handing the big banks way way way way way way way more money now.

But, let's fixate on one semi-horrible stimulus plan.
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Paraphrasing Ev Dirksen: "A trillion here, a trillion there, pretty soon you're talking about big money." The official motto of Neveille's administration (with apologies to Butterfly McQueen) apparently is: "I don't know nothin'. . .about nothin'."
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Old Pio said:
When was the last time any of them edited tape to make a defendant in a criminal trial look like a racist?
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How's ACORN doing again?

Old Pos, you are a steaming pile of human waste. Why don't you just go back to jerking off over people being killed in Chicago so you can go 'thanks Obama!'
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Foxton said:
How's ACORN doing again?

Old Pos, you are a steaming pile of human waste. Why don't you just go back to jerking off over people being killed in Chicago so you can go 'thanks Obama!'
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He loves you too
 
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