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2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

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Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Naturally. In addition to being a racist and consumed with hate, I also have no freakin' sense of humor! Quelle surprise.

I never called you a 'racist' - I don't think you are. You don't really exhibit a lot of intentional humor in your posts (there are a few bits of obvious sarcasm here and there).

In fact, your last post (immediately prior to this one) made quite a bit of sense.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Personally, I'm not an ideologue. I am however, a firm believer in the Buckley Principle: nominate the most conservative guy (or gal) who can win. Going down with flags flying has no appeal to me. Sadly, the extremes of both parties don't feel that way. Particularly in the House. Since so few of 'em are in competitive races they tend to hew to the outer edges of their parties. Natually, the port siders will deny that, asserting that it's only the conservatives who are fringy. So when New Yorkers elect a Sandanista mayor, what then?

You pick any controversial issue facing Americans and generally the most extreme voices and positions are the ones we hear. Most of us are in the middle somewhere. And most of us don't donate to pressure groups. Or march. H*ll, most of us don't even vote!

Although I revered Barry Goldwater as a great conservative and great man, he represented a break from traditional Republicanism. And New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller represented the "go along to get along" Republicans. The slogan was "A choice, not an echo." The MSM treated this man as if he were some sort of fascist. H*ll, Daniel Schorr even described Goldwater as visiting "Hitler's old stomping grounds" in Bavaria.

So now we have the Tea Party, another manifestation of "movement" conservatives. And there's nothing new about what they stand for or the Democrats' (or the MSM's) response to them. To my knowledge, TP types haven't advocated any violence nor engaged in any. The only violence at a TP event came when SEIU thugs beat the crap out of a black guy. Yet the shrieking in the media about the TP is deafening. They aren't my cup of tea, primarily because they've engineering the nomination of candidates who blew winnable races. But they're essentially harmless and represent nothing startlingly new. Yes, occasionally some TP type will say something manifestly stupid, which results in a torrent of smears by the left. "Why, that's extreme, and has no place in American political discourse" Blah, blah, blah. Yet these same people ignored, or have forgotten, or participated in demonstrations calling for George W. Bush's execution, hanging, beheading etc.

Certainly everybody is in the business of raising money and awareness, so the "excesses" of the Obama administration help the TP bottom line. And the "excesses" of the TP help bring in the money for the other side. This is as American as apple pie. Nothing new here. And any claims to the contrary are just spin.

Sensible post. But Pio, you're too smart and have too much experience to be hanging with the Tpers. Come on over to the church basement any Wednesday evening and give the ladies a try. We've got a songbook for you. And, in the best of Christian tradition, we will forgive you for the hate that has consumed and blinded you so. We even have a few Presbyterians among us, which should be proof enough. You will, of course, be asked to check your Goldwater card at the door.

Blessed are the meek . . .
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

What does bringing them up accomplish? What he's preaching is in line with doctrine. Don't expect the Catholic Church to be performing gay marriages any time soon if ever.

No but they dont have to hate gays either. Last I checked only God had the authority to judge...that is the difference between Francis and the rest. (he also didnt spend years covering up church rapes like Benedict did before he became Pope)

And the Tea Party is not fiscal conservatives...at least not when it comes to the spending they want like Medicare. Just because they pretend to care doesnt mean they actually do. Look at the leaders of their caucus Michelle Bachman is a criminal who was getting tons of cash in subsidies while decrying poor people for doing so and Paul ryan who wants to cut everything but wants to fully fund the military and grow it. The Tea Party is a bunch of wolves in sheeps clothing, a crazier, more socially right wing version of the neocons.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Sensible post. But Pio, you're too smart and have too much experience to be hanging with the Tpers. Come on over to the church basement any Wednesday evening and give the ladies a try. We've got a songbook for you. And, in the best of Christian tradition, we will forgive you for the hate that has consumed and blinded you so. We even have a few Presbyterians among us, which should be proof enough. You will, of course, be asked to check your Goldwater card at the door.

Blessed are the meek . . .


What did I say that makes you think I'm "hanging around" with TPers? I thought I made it pretty clear they weren't my cup of tea. As to AuH2O, it'll never happen. He was more of a man than all the presidents of my lifetime put together. 60 missions "over the hump" in Burma. Gave away tens of thousands of dollars in long distance calls to GI's via MARS so they could talk to their loved ones from Vietnam. Founded the Arizona air national guard and desegregated it and his own department store when there was zero in it for him politically. He desegregated the AANG two years before DOD desegregated the active services. Flew over 150 types of aircraft. A 2-star general in the AF reserve. And a whole bunch more. He had criticized LBJ in '60 for running for vice president and senator at the same time (the Texas legislature had helpfully passed "Lyndon's Law" to make that possible). So when he ran for president in '64, in a race he had to know he couldn't win, he didn't run for his Arizona senate seat. His last act as a senator and chairman of the Armed Services Committee, was a reorganization of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. As a tribute to him, it passed 100-0. There will never be another.

On one occasion, Jerry Falwell, in criticizing Goldwater for supporting the nomination of Sandra Day O'Connor to the Supreme Court, suggested "all good Christians" should pray for his soul or something. Knowing Barry's reluctance to speak his mind, reporters couldn't wait to ask for his response. He said: "All good Christians should kick Jerry Falwell right in the a*s." Nobody ever waked away from an interview with Goldwater wondering just where he stood.

I may stop by for some punch and cookies and admire the 4 part harmony, but that's it.
 
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Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

No but they dont have to hate gays either. Last I checked only God had the authority to judge...that is the difference between Francis and the rest. (he also didnt spend years covering up church rapes like Benedict did before he became Pope)

And the Tea Party is not fiscal conservatives...at least not when it comes to the spending they want like Medicare. Just because they pretend to care doesnt mean they actually do. Look at the leaders of their caucus Michelle Bachman is a criminal who was getting tons of cash in subsidies while decrying poor people for doing so and Paul ryan who wants to cut everything but wants to fully fund the military and grow it. The Tea Party is a bunch of wolves in sheeps clothing, a crazier, more socially right wing version of the neocons.

Absolutely no need to "fully fund" the military. Iran, China and North Korea, just to name three, are right wing chimeras.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

What if the Catholic Church is right and society is wrong? Just because everyone is jumping off the cliff (so to speak) does not make it right. And Pope Francis has not changed one iota of Catholic doctrine, nor is there any indication that he will.

joecct touches on a critical point here, and the basis for why I still call myself a conservative. There is still plenty of room for dissent from the propaganda that is being fed us, although it's getting harder to stand up to the political media machine on things like this. I wish there were more people willing to speak up even when it's not the most "popular" side. Remember "global warming" from about 10 years ago? Or "the new ice age" just before that? Yep... it's called weather. It's hard to be the level head when everyone is screaming that the sky is falling.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

joecct touches on a critical point here, and the basis for why I still call myself a conservative. There is still plenty of room for dissent from the propaganda that is being fed us, although it's getting harder to stand up to the political media machine on things like this. I wish there were more people willing to speak up even when it's not the most "popular" side. Remember "global warming" from about 10 years ago? Or "the new ice age" just before that? Yep... it's called weather. It's hard to be the level head when everyone is screaming that the sky is falling.

The only thing that matters to some is the score of the game being played on the deck of the titanic...they don't care about long term trends, the RIGHT decisions or any of that...only who won the last slap fight. Both parties preoccupy themselves first and foremost with attracting members who will give them money and votes...doing what is right for the country comes somewhere down the list.

If the two parties were partners in a failed marriage, they both are more concerned about custody of the bank account and who gets the house than the long-term well being of the kids...and they follow the stereotypical methods of trying to win the kids' loyalty...money, lying and attacking.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

The only thing that matters to some is the score of the game being played on the deck of the titanic...they don't care about long term trends, the RIGHT decisions or any of that...only who won the last slap fight. Both parties preoccupy themselves first and foremost with attracting members who will give them money and votes...doing what is right for the country comes somewhere down the list.

If the two parties were partners in a failed marriage, they both are more concerned about custody of the bank account and who gets the house than the long-term well being of the kids...and they follow the stereotypical methods of trying to win the kids' loyalty...money, lying and attacking.

The problem is there is no right answer to the problems. Raising taxes wont fix the problem and neither will cutting spending. You have to do both. Problem is to do both there needs to be compromise which is a dirty word in the current state of politics.

And therein lies the problem, there is no compromise. The current incarnation of the GOP has no interest in doing anything that will help if it means working with Dems. (the Dems are guilty of this too, a lot, but right now the GOP is going way beyond) They would rather shut the government down than even discuss a compromise because it has no real effect on them. Washington is so out of touch with the real world it is insane. Workers with families cant get paid but we gotta make sure the Congressional Gym is open because lord forbid a Rep not be able to get his cardio in during the shutdown. All of them are so shut off from the real world they have no idea what is really going on. They are accountable to no one but the people who donate money...
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

There is still plenty of room for dissent from the propaganda that is being fed us, although it's getting harder to stand up to the political media machine on things like this. I wish there were more people willing to speak up even when it's not the most "popular" side. Remember "global warming" from about 10 years ago? Or "the new ice age" just before that? Yep... it's called weather. It's hard to be the level head when everyone is screaming that the sky is falling.

Who are you referring to when you say the political media machine? Fox News is the most powerful new program out there, isn't it?
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

The problem is there is no right answer to the problems. Raising taxes wont fix the problem and neither will cutting spending. You have to do both. Problem is to do both there needs to be compromise which is a dirty word in the current state of politics.

And therein lies the problem, there is no compromise. The current incarnation of the GOP has no interest in doing anything that will help if it means working with Dems. (the Dems are guilty of this too, a lot, but right now the GOP is going way beyond) They would rather shut the government down than even discuss a compromise because it has no real effect on them. Washington is so out of touch with the real world it is insane. Workers with families cant get paid but we gotta make sure the Congressional Gym is open because lord forbid a Rep not be able to get his cardio in during the shutdown. All of them are so shut off from the real world they have no idea what is really going on. They are accountable to no one but the people who donate money...

And your parentheses about one party doing it more than the other is where the problem fully lies, and is why you don't have compromise. Do you really expect someone you point the finger at to be cordial with you? Heck, I know I've burnt some bridges on this board, but I don't care! People only **** me off with their "J'accuse" phrases on here.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Who are you referring to when you say the political media machine? Fox News is the most powerful new program out there, isn't it?

Yes. But while the right side is worse in this regard, the problem of an unwillingness to think for oneself against popular opinion is not limited to one side of the debate.
In fact, Fox is a perfect illustration of why political debate is so frustrating. Truth doesn't even matter any more, it's just what is the most outrageous thing you can convince the most people of. At least, what I hear about Fox. I haven't watched a minute of it in about 8-10 years. I do watch a little bit of Maddow for laughs now and then, and she probably illustrates the opposite end of the same problem as Bill O'Reilly. There's no attempt to educate or illuminate, it's all just bashing and whining and condemnation of anyone who doesn't step into line.
 
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Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Yes. But while the right side is worse in this regard, the problem of an unwillingness to think for oneself against popular opinion is not limited to one side of the debate.
In fact, Fox is a perfect illustration of why political debate is so frustrating. Truth doesn't even matter any more, it's just what is the most outrageous thing you can convince the most people of. At least, what I hear about Fox. I haven't watched a minute of it in about 8-10 years. I do watch a little bit of Maddow for laughs now and then, and she probably illustrates the opposite end of the same problem as Bill O'Reilly. There's no attempt to educate or illuminate, it's all just bashing and whining and condemnation of anyone who doesn't step into line.

Just as a heads up, Bill O'Reilly is the sane one on Fox News these days. If you really haven't ever watched it in the last 8-10 years, you have no idea how far the derp has moved on that station.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Just as a heads up, Bill O'Reilly is the sane one on Fox News these days. If you really haven't ever watched it in the last 8-10 years, you have no idea how far the derp has moved on that station.

The height of Bull**** Mountain is just shy of Everest.
 
And your parentheses about one party doing it more than the other is where the problem fully lies, and is why you don't have compromise. Do you really expect someone you point the finger at to be cordial with you? Heck, I know I've burnt some bridges on this board, but I don't care! People only **** me off with their "J'accuse" phrases on here.

Being cordial isn't the point...people can dislike me all they want. Plenty of people I disagree with I still have to work with and we still get things done.

Its called being an adult.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Being cordial isn't the point...people can dislike me all they want. Plenty of people I disagree with I still have to work with and we still get things done.

Its called being an adult.
Exactly. I was scanning the radio recently in Ohio and came across an investing show - no clue what network or anything. He was talking about having the discipline to stay with your investing plan for the long term, etc, and he had a great line that could apply to many situations: "There's a word for people who act on all of their emotions - we call them 'children.'"

Excellent point.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Just as a heads up, Bill O'Reilly is the sane one on Fox News these days. If you really haven't ever watched it in the last 8-10 years, you have no idea how far the derp has moved on that station.

Why watch something (obsessively, it would seem) that falls so far short of your standards?
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Why watch something (obsessively, it would seem) that falls so far short of your standards?

I don't when I have a choice (I couldn't at home even if I did want to - I don't have cable). But many restaurants/delis around here have their TVs turned to that during the lunch hour, probably because the age of their typical clientele outside of the lunch rush is about 70. Likewise, my parents watch it at times and I'm not going to stop visiting them just because of that.
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Why watch something (obsessively, it would seem) that falls so far short of your standards?

Be fair, Pio, it only takes two or three viewings to reach that conclusion. Don't tell me you've watched Lady Maddow more than that?
 
Re: 2nd Term, Part VI: Burnin' down the House

Be fair, Pio, it only takes two or three viewings to reach that conclusion. Don't tell me you've watched Lady Maddow more than that?

I don't and I haven't. Neither have I watched "Tingles," "Skillets" and, coming soon, "The father of the year." Neither do I watch O'Reilly or any of the Fox menagerie. O'Reilly lost me for good when he stubbornly and ignorantly insisted Shawn Hornbeck "liked" being raped every night by a 300 pound pedophile with a pistol. It's pretty easy when you're making 7 figures, in your 50's, to say what a little boy should have done when he was kidnapped then raped and threatened repeatedly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKI5S4wShqo

Watching those two dunces discuss the Patty Hearst case as if it were dispositive just plain pizzes me off. The relevant case is Stevie Stayner, who also was kidnapped by a pedophile, abused for years, and even enrolled in school--and didn't run away or ask for help. Stevie only left when the pedophile kidnapped a newer, younger boy. Stevie took the kid with him because he didn't want to have happen to the new boy what had happened to him. The parallels between Stevie and Shawn's cases are striking.

Shawn Hornbeck was 11 when he was kidnapped at gunpoint. And raped that very night by a 300 pound pedophile. For many days after his kidnapping the pedophile left the boy tied to a chair while he went to work. Because he wasn't sure the boy wouldn't run. You know what that means when it comes to bodily functions. Shawn was driven out into the boonies at least once and had a pistol put to his head. And at age 11, under those circumstances, he's supposed to make a rational decision?

And he didn't "taunt" his parents. In an e-mail he asked: "How long will you keep looking for your son?" More likely a plea for help than a taunt. His parents never gave up and have supported the kid as he worked his way back into society. As far as I know, he's doing well. No thanks to that pompous, ignorant, mean spirited a*shole O'Reilly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Stayner

The final outrage of Stevie's case: the pedophile who kidnapped and raped him for 7 years wound up serving less than 7 years in prison.
 
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